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L
You always reject what is written in the Bible so you can continue to convince yourself we no longer have to keep the 7th day sabbath. Men wrote the Bible under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. The 10 commandments is the only place in all the Bible God Himself wrote. The 10 commandments were that important that God the Father came down with all the angels.
K
Following along reading all the comments are very interesting. Not being very familiar with Maccabees your post made me curious. Incidentally, earlier on in this conversation I wondered what Paul was speaking of when he said abstain from food sacrificed to idols. Got me wondering what really is that? I wonder if the 2 could be connected? My understanding thus far, is sacrificed to idols may relate to a ceremony for the dead. Anyhow, this has been a thought provoking thread.
“Meat Offered to Idols” in Pergamum and Thyatira
“Meat Offered to Idols” in Pergamum and Thyatira
S
Prayers were offered for the dead in macabees, yes. It's hard to find a good apocrypha. I know there is a 1769 KJV apocrypha, but I have yet to get my hands on one. There is one in the 1611 as well. This is... gulp Douay Rheims.
2 Macabees 12.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]So Judas having gathered together his army, came into the city Odollam: and when the seventh day came, they purified themselves according to the custom, and kept the sabbath in the place.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And the day following Judas came with his company, to take away the bodies of them that were slain, and to bury them with their kinsmen, in the sepulchres of their fathers.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And they found under the coats of the slain some of the donaries of the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbiddeth to the Jews: so that all plainly saw, that for this cause they were slain.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then they all blessed the just judgment of the Lord, who had discovered the things that were hidden.
[SUP]42 [/SUP]And so betaking themselves to prayers, they besought him, that the sin which had been committed might be forgotten. But the most valiant Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves from sin, forasmuch as they saw before their eyes what had happened, because of the sins of those that were slain.
[SUP]43 [/SUP]And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection,
2 Macabees 12.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]So Judas having gathered together his army, came into the city Odollam: and when the seventh day came, they purified themselves according to the custom, and kept the sabbath in the place.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And the day following Judas came with his company, to take away the bodies of them that were slain, and to bury them with their kinsmen, in the sepulchres of their fathers.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And they found under the coats of the slain some of the donaries of the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbiddeth to the Jews: so that all plainly saw, that for this cause they were slain.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then they all blessed the just judgment of the Lord, who had discovered the things that were hidden.
[SUP]42 [/SUP]And so betaking themselves to prayers, they besought him, that the sin which had been committed might be forgotten. But the most valiant Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves from sin, forasmuch as they saw before their eyes what had happened, because of the sins of those that were slain.
[SUP]43 [/SUP]And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection,
Meat sacrificed to idols were the flesh sacrifices offered by pagans to idols, which meat would be sold in the public market.
Questions of conscience arose because of the Mosaic regulations against idolatry.
Praying for the dead would have been a practice among the Israelites, not related to paganism or idolatry.
Questions of conscience arose because of the Mosaic regulations against idolatry.
Praying for the dead would have been a practice among the Israelites, not related to paganism or idolatry.
That is a false dichotomy, and there are not Ten Commandments stated in Genesis.
The Decalogue was written by God in stone because it was the basis of the Sinaitic Covenant, so closely linked that the terms were sometimes used interchangeably.
The Decalogue, as well as the Book of the Covenant and the Levitical laws, were given by God (Lev 1:1), who is their author, not Moses.
All of them are the commandments of God, on equal footing.
The Decalogue was written by God in stone because it was the basis of the Sinaitic Covenant, so closely linked that the terms were sometimes used interchangeably.
The Decalogue, as well as the Book of the Covenant and the Levitical laws, were given by God (Lev 1:1), who is their author, not Moses.
All of them are the commandments of God, on equal footing.
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So are you saying I have a carnal mind because I love God and want to obey His commandments? Huh? I have said before that I have accepted Jesus as my Savior and I know that keeping the 10 commandments won't save me because Jesus did that for me, but I'm carnal because I want to obey out of love? I just don't get it.
I see it a different way. God wrote the 10 Commandment on stone with His finger He then gave the stones to Moses so would that not make it God's law given to Moses to carry down the mountain and not Moses's law. Moses was just the carrier and messenger not the author.. God was the author so it is God's law and not Moses.
M
The Decalogue or 10 commandments were the basis for all the 600 or 700 laws the Jews created from them which Jesus called the tradition of the elders. The Jews never could keep the 10 and outside of the action of the Holy Spirit on our lives we cant either. Paul said the letter of the law killeth but the spirit of the law gives life. Thank God Jesus fulfilled the law and we are under grace, but His law written on our hearts brings us into obedience as we grow in Him.
It's over 854 posts now and I just have to say that the title of this thread kinda bothered me (from the beginning). Attack of the Judaizers.... So is this a defensive title or an offensive title? When I first started reading the posts I felt attacked, then I felt sad, then I wanted to cry. I continued to read - please know I am not trying to prove any points - I am here to learn too. As I kept reading posts there were some that made me laugh so this thread has had my emotions all over the place.
As a Saturday Sabbath keeper who loves God's law which I know is written on my heart - I have heard labels written in this thread that would term me as a trolling, Judaizer, legalistic wolf. I say OUCH! I still love You All and would only call you brother or sister in Christ.
We are all learning - contrary to popular belief no one has arrived yet. In other words God is still working on us all.
There is a Bible text that says in Matthew 7:13 & 14
13 - Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there be many who go in by it .
14 - Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
So you have to ask yourself is the way you travel the wide gate/road or is it the narrow difficult road?
Blessings to all in Christ.
As a Saturday Sabbath keeper who loves God's law which I know is written on my heart - I have heard labels written in this thread that would term me as a trolling, Judaizer, legalistic wolf. I say OUCH! I still love You All and would only call you brother or sister in Christ.
We are all learning - contrary to popular belief no one has arrived yet. In other words God is still working on us all.
There is a Bible text that says in Matthew 7:13 & 14
13 - Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there be many who go in by it .
14 - Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
So you have to ask yourself is the way you travel the wide gate/road or is it the narrow difficult road?
Blessings to all in Christ.
I posted a verse that is Shaul speaking not me, and no that is not what it is saying.
Its saying the fleshly minded people can not subject themselves to Yahweh's Law.
Originally Posted by Hizikyah
Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; bitterly opposed to, Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."
Its saying the fleshly minded people can not subject themselves to Yahweh's Law.
Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; bitterly opposed to, Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."
The torah that is supposed to be written on peoples hearts is 613+ Laws, the oral law created by Jews/rabbis/pharisees has 1,000s of made up laws.
Yeremyah 31:33, "After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; minds, and I will be their Father, and they will be My people."
8451. torah - torah: direction, instruction, law Original Word: תּוֹרָה Part of Speech: Noun Feminine Transliteration: torah
Phonetic Spelling: (to-raw') Short Definition: law
Yeremyah 31:33, "After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; minds, and I will be their Father, and they will be My people."
8451. torah - torah: direction, instruction, law Original Word: תּוֹרָה Part of Speech: Noun Feminine Transliteration: torah
Phonetic Spelling: (to-raw') Short Definition: law
L
I have been doing a study with RedTent. I have come to the conclusion that the Laws pertaining to the Theocracy (governmental justice/societal decrees/ceremonial laws/sacrificial system) were for the Israelites only, and only for the time of the Theocracy, and never had to do with salvation, but healthy and righteous living. When God left the Temple, before the deportation to Babylon, the Theocracy was gone, because the Sinai Covenant was broken by the people of Israel.
The Theocratic Laws never had to do with salvation, but always had to do with how God wanted his chosen people to live. This lifestyle was not always directly 'righteous' but always reminded people to be righteous.
Why were they suppose to leave the corners of their beard untrimmed? to remind them to leave the edges of their field unharvested, so the poor could come and gather the excess!
Salvation was always by faith alone: faith that God would forgive, and would save. Faith is always shown by faithfulness to the directions of the one you have faith in. If I have faith in the instruction manual for building an airplane, I do what the instructions say for how to build it!
The laws were always a guide.
If we neglect the Law, then we neglect Law-giver who is also the one who grants salvation. If we put our faith in the Law, then we are trusting the creation instead of the Creator.
The Law didn't save the Jews. Sacrifice didn't save the Jews.
Faith in God saved the Jews. Doing what God says displays faith.
In the New Covenant, we can shave the corners of our beards, because that command was to the Theocratic society of Israel, not to us. However, we should obey the Spirit of that Law, which is to be generous to the poor.
The Theocratic Laws never had to do with salvation, but always had to do with how God wanted his chosen people to live. This lifestyle was not always directly 'righteous' but always reminded people to be righteous.
Why were they suppose to leave the corners of their beard untrimmed? to remind them to leave the edges of their field unharvested, so the poor could come and gather the excess!
Salvation was always by faith alone: faith that God would forgive, and would save. Faith is always shown by faithfulness to the directions of the one you have faith in. If I have faith in the instruction manual for building an airplane, I do what the instructions say for how to build it!
The laws were always a guide.
If we neglect the Law, then we neglect Law-giver who is also the one who grants salvation. If we put our faith in the Law, then we are trusting the creation instead of the Creator.
The Law didn't save the Jews. Sacrifice didn't save the Jews.
Faith in God saved the Jews. Doing what God says displays faith.
In the New Covenant, we can shave the corners of our beards, because that command was to the Theocratic society of Israel, not to us. However, we should obey the Spirit of that Law, which is to be generous to the poor.
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