Christians and military service

Elizabeth619 · Jan 11, 2014

You're right, and thank you for pointing that out. Both sides feel they are "right" They both think they are the good guys. When you are in the military you are to follow orders, but one has to keep in mind we are to obey God over man.

A few months ago when President Obama threatened to invade Syria I was very concerned. I actually did not support it(yes, I am admitting I don't support a war). We have no business there, and I was pleased to see that Obama retracted his idea to do so. That's probably the only smart decision he has made in his presidency to be honest.
Anywho, in the event we did invade Syria and I didn't support it I felt stuck between a rock and a hard place. I support our military. I have many friends over in Afghanistan right now, and I pray daily they return home safely, but how do you support your military yet oppose what they do?

directline2iam · Jan 11, 2014

iamsoandso said:

Good point, should Christians kill Christians I don't think Russia fights for Christian freedoms like we do.
One of the principles America was founded on was Freedom of Religion, does Russia and all the rest you mentioned believe what we do? No they don't, but God is working on it through men and women who serve.

iamsoandso · Jan 11, 2014

directline2iam said:

well,i am an American in Peru so the draft laws/service is different. i say American as if south American,in the u.s. the term "America" is used in slang terms meaning united states citizens. Canadians,Mexicans,Peruvians,Cubans ect. are all Americans from the American continents. so take Cuba for instance(communist) but in the same they are still "Americans from the American continent" so you use the term,,"believe what we do",,we who?

iamsoandso · Jan 11, 2014

Elizabeth619 said:

i agree the u.s. began in 1991 in the Persian gulf war then the no fly zone and your military has been in the region till now 2014,,so 24 years. falujah fell a few days ago so unless something changes it would seem that it will still be a very long time till your troops return home,,,

directline2iam · Jan 11, 2014

iamsoandso said:

We who? The US of a course, as you are the one that used the term, go to war with the US and also with the same term, shoot at an American soldier. or are you now changing your statement to a Christian Cuban communist american soldier?

iamsoandso · Jan 11, 2014

directline2iam said:

lol,no i do understand you are reflecting from the point of view as a united states citizen. "we who",as a christian or from a national standpoint is what my meaning is. that is the united states is a nation based on the principle of "freedom of religion" so the soldiers in the military could be Buddhist,Muslim,christian,or even atheist. the o.p. "Christians and military service" would only denote the christian portion of the American soldiers but not the non-christian of the military.

in Cuba it is not a nation based on freedom of religion it is a christian nation that is a Communist government,but it is also in the American continent and are also Americans. i say "we who" also because you ask me if they "believe the same way we do" are you meaning "we Christians" or "we the u.s. citizens",you see i am in the nation of Peru in south America. so i am also "American" not a u.s.citizen,,,American as in from the American continent. so "we" as if we are asking if the Russian Christians or Cuban Christians all believe the same way we do is "yes". but if we are saying "we" and meaning a belief or support of a nation,,,"well we are all from different nations",,,

directline2iam · Jan 11, 2014

Sorry for the misunderstanding on my part.LOL, I don't currently feel stupid, but was I ever misunderstanding you.
This was your question:

Originally Posted by iamsoandso

so should a "christian" who is in Russia join the army and shoot at an American solider,would the Russian christian have god's blessing? By using the word blessing, if you are saying is God backing up the mans decision to shoot to kill? My answer would be, is the man shooting to help preserve the freedom to publicly worship the Lord according to the mans beliefs along with other freedoms people should have, or is he shooting to just obey his government who's wish could be to enslave or keep enslaved peoples or over power them to take from them what isn't theirs. If it's the latter, I would say NO. This is just my opinion, I can't speak for God. Some men sacrifice their life for many some men sacrifice their life in vain, Does God do anything in vain?

just-me · Jan 11, 2014

iamsoandso said:

As I was in a war and didn't really know the politics, I served as I thought best. Back then there was no choice because of the draft. I don't think I was wrong with my intention because I have no guilt for being in the army. I volunteered.

I have said this to my entire family as a patriarch. "If knowing my country was demanding corruption through legislation, I would not fight to preserve corruption. If on the other hand, I was called to fight for the freedom God endorses for my country, and the legislation proved to be pursuing righteousness according to God's will, I would fight to protect that."

I was dismayed when my grandson joined the Marines. From the way he talks to my wife and I, the military is very corrupt these days.

Brother_Don · Jan 11, 2014

in my own honest opinion they have been duped, sorry if i hurt any one, but that won't change my mind.

just-me · Jan 11, 2014

It would be important to understand what the soldiers under Washington thought, about religious freedom, honest taxation with proper representation, and so on.

The first ten amendments are comparable with scripture concerning governing a nation. It has been said that all members of the 1st continental congress signed off on the constitution with the premise of knowing it would fail if the nation came to the point of denying the Bible.

It also is evident that no one in the 1st congress wanted a central form of government, but it was vital for protecting the boarders of our nation.

The first amendment states clearly that the government will not infringe on religion. Thomas Jefferson wrote the “separation of church and state” in a letter, and that letter has been wrongly incorporated into the constitution today being a misrepresentation of what the fist amendment is all about.

NodMyHeadLikeYeah · Jan 11, 2014

I was thinking about joining the military, but then i remembered i don't like waking up early.......or rules.

LClark · Jan 11, 2014

Elizabeth619 said:

This is again using Scripture wrongly to make it look like Jesus endorsed being in the military. Jesus was praising the man's faith, not his occupation as soldier or the fact that he was a slave holder.

This is a 'strawman' used to ignore Jesus' clear teaching for those who follow him. Paul understood it and applied it.
Christians for the first 300 years understood it clearly. Heroes of the faith like D.L. Moody, Charles Spurgeon, Wm. Booth (Salvation Army), etc. understood it. Noted Christians of today understand it.

Vernon Grounds, late President Emeritus, Denver Seminary– “Unambiguously denounce and renounce war….Recognize that obedience to our Lord Jesus is the master-criterion of discipleship…”
Ben Witherington, Prof. of NT, Asbury Seminary– “For me, part of being holy, being pure, being clean, being like Jesus, is being a pacifist.”
David A. Hoekema. Calvin College– “The early Christian community understood Jesus’ commands to prohibit the bearing of arms.”

But most American evangelicals don't have a clue about Scripture or church history because of being blinded by our culture.

iamsoandso · Jan 11, 2014

directline2iam said:

i agree it all depends on which nation these "christian soldiers" are from i was born in the u.s.(texas) but have duel citizenship. in traveling to other nations the issue of nationality becomes an issue when passing thru customs if you say "i am an American" it only causes problems,that is they will point out quickly that their are many nations in the Americas and they are asking which exact nation you are from. some of the custom offices view a person stating "American" when ask as if they are trying to hide something. that is they think they are not giving their nationality to evade one thing or another. that is many nations are in the Americas.

iamsoandso · Jan 11, 2014

just-me said:

yes,i was born in Texas and now at my age military service is not an option. i noticed a few days ago several others on c.c. pointing out in different threads that we are only looking at these biblical questions from the view point of the u.s.,. so as i read thru this thread i noted that it also is only being discerned from only one point of view.

in other nations (i am in Peru at the moment) they all have different laws regarding military service. in Peru there is a lottery if the total of troop strength falls in quotas. Peru: Military draft to take place in June - Peru this Week other than that most are volunteers who are in the service.

in Peru the police (compatible to sheriff/police in the u.s.) are also a branch of the military. Peruvian Armed Forces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (there are many other nations with the same approach) so in fact even the police,customs officers ect. are all members of the military but they report to a different branch of government. so depending which government the "christian" is in military service means something different,that is a police who is writing a ticket for speeding in Peru is in the military.

the corruption in the military and government,laws verses actual freedom is why i am in another nation. i still own my property in Texas but when i went to remodel it several years ago i was confronted with "the new laws/city ordinances" i was confronted with buying separate permits for different projects. one to tear down a patio,another to build a porch,one to replace the roof on the garage and another to cut down tree's. i was told that by the new laws in the city that all contractors would have to be insured and bonded(which tripled the cost).

the tree's themselves and the laws concerning the septic systym was my final straw. i was told when seeking the permits to draw out a map of the trees i was planning to remove and measure the circumference of them along with the type of tree they were. i was told i could cut down all that were smaller than 4 inches,over that it depends on the species,any tree over 15 inches cannot be removed. the septic system was installed in the 70's but under the laws in the u.s it is illegal for a home owner to dig up the leach lines and remove the roots and the lowest bid to do it by a insured/bonded and licensed plumber was 12,000.00,,,on the other hand in Peru i can lawfully work on my own house,hire anyone i choose and the total cost to move was less than 12,000.00,,,the total cost of living is around 600.00 u.s. dollars a month with a maid and gardener.,,,

i was in the navy in the 50's but was eventually in the position where i had to look at what i had served for and compare them to the manner of living in other nations. i had sailed from the gulf coast and had ported i almost every nation to the tip of Peru along with the Caribbeans,,so i had good examples of the standard of living and freedoms of the other nations to compare with the u.s.,,,i do admit though that i find it sad that a once free nation has changed so much over my lifetime,,

Elizabeth619 · Jan 11, 2014

LClark said:

Where did I state that Jesus praised him for being a soldier? I clearly stated He praised his faith.

What I said ^^^^

Yet, I still have not seen a response to the question I asked earlier. Where in scripture does it say to surrender your family/loved ones in the event of a deadly attack?

just-me · Jan 11, 2014

Elizabeth619 said:

The Word of God speaks to the contrary of surrendering.

Ezekiel 33:1-9 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Son of man, speak to the children of thy people, and say unto them, When I bring the sword upon a land, if the people of the land take a man of their coasts, and set him for their watchman:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

2 Timothy 2:3-4 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

One should never distort this scripture. A soldier who fears God and believes in Christ Jesus is more likely to be brave under fire even if the cause is wrong. He will be more interested in saving lives rather than killing. The camaraderie with his comrades is more important than anything else when all is said and done. A Christian military man can be the best witness for Christ Jesus under fire. Have a nice day.

tucksma · Jan 12, 2014

Elizabeth619 said:

SO with the first verse, when we were under the law this was okay because God said to. That's different, we aren't under the law anymore.

With the second, it never says it is okay to kill, just to guard. Also taken in context, it is clear it is talking about spiritual armor and a spiritual place.

With the third, does the ruler of a country decide who is a wrongdoer? According to the military's stance he does. I though it was God.

tucksma · Jan 12, 2014

LovePink said:

Turning a blind eye isn't okay at all! And you have provided a verse saying let men govern men, but if men go against the word of God, which the military as a whole does when they kill, then it is still a sin.

tucksma · Jan 12, 2014

mcubed said:

1. look at the definition again, it says "to murder, to slay, to kill" (blue letter bible)
2. Who defines murder vs killing. Surely not the president, rather God. I doubt the military is fighting for God..... (military as a whole)

tucksma · Jan 12, 2014

Simiel said:

The difference is these people were told by God to kill where the military is told by a leader of Man.

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