People say I'm crazy

[Cobus]

If Jesus is not the witness in me, I am NO SAVED PERSON.... Jesus is still the witness IN ALL SAVED PEOPLE...

 

[Cobus]

1 John 3:9... Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 5:18... We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

And the ones that sin does not know God...... Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Actually the sinners are NOT OF GOD... He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

 

[Cobus]

Wanderer do you think God hides your flesh or just your spirit? God fills your flesh, where are you then? If God FILLS you there is no place for you in the flesh... You have NO idea what REBORN is do you? You are not reborn JESUS IS... IN YOU AND YOU IN HIM... NOT IN FLESH... You are no longer flesh but SPIRIT... the flesh is just a vessel for GOD'S SPIRIT, and that SPIRIT CANNOT SIN...Not even in your flesh....

 

[wanderer6059]

I forgive you young man, and love you enough to turn the other cheek.... I love you
Wanderer, but I will NEVER let you down and NEVER lie to you. You do not know the truth and you are NOT SET FREE....

Please go read John 17 in the KJV so we can discuss how God saves us, My friend will you do one thing for this idiot? Please go read john 17 and then 1 John 3... Then tell me what god says about His salvation? PLEASE do this and I will never ask you another thing, PLEASE! Go read this two chapters, PLEASE!

.... i will, that was very humbling for me cobus. even though i still think you are wrong i will read it and pm you. but you to remember just cause i am young does not mean i am spiritually immature

i remember 1 Timothy 5:1
5 Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;

i am sorry for letting my emotions control me, thank you for your forgiveness

 

[Simiel]

Okay -- glancing at the verse, I can see that it was from John chapter 10, so let's look at the passage.

I'm still a bit confused by your interpretation, so can you help me understand how you are exegeting it? Thanks. It would help if you went in a little more depth with it, but I don't want you to say random things that come to your mind. I want to know what you actually think about the passage.

Since you've asked for my understanding of the passage, I will give it below the passage. I'm going to quote more than you did to give the passage more context. You quoted only verses 33-38.

John 10:22-38 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]At that time the Feast of the Dedication took place at Jerusalem; [SUP]23 [/SUP]it was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple in the portico of Solomon. [SUP]24 [/SUP]The Jews then gathered around Him, and were saying to Him, “How long [SUP][b][/SUP]will You keep us in suspense? If You are [SUP][c][/SUP]the Christ, tell us plainly.” [SUP]25 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father’s name, these testify of Me. [SUP]26 [/SUP]But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. [SUP]27 [/SUP]My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; [SUP]28[/SUP]and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. [SUP]29 [/SUP][SUP][d][/SUP]My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. [SUP]30 [/SUP]I and the Father are [SUP][e][/SUP]one.”

[SUP]31 [/SUP]The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. [SUP]32 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?”[SUP]33 [/SUP]The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” [SUP]34 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? [SUP]35 [/SUP]If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), [SUP]36 [/SUP]do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? [SUP]37 [/SUP]If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; [SUP]38[/SUP]but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may [SUP][f][/SUP]know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.”[SUP]39 [/SUP]Therefore they were seeking again to seize Him, and He eluded their grasp.



First things first -- you know that Christ is the Greek word for the Messiah, right? So they are asking Jesus if He is the Messiah.

Jesus' response to them in verse 25 is interesting. Jesus first tells them that He has told them already, but that they do not believe Him. Then Jesus appeals to the works that He has done. These "works" include the miracles, signs, and wonders that you keep emphasizing. He says that those very works testify of Him. So, right there, Jesus says that that's the purpose of His works. They are to testify about who He is -- that He is the Messiah. This wouldn't work if He were merely just human.

Now....I'm going to copy some of what I wrote from another thread into this post because it applies here. Just so we're on the same page here, LORD in the Old Testament means Yahweh. Yahweh is the one and only God. So in order to prove Jesus' deity, I have to show that Jesus is Yahweh:

Deuteronomy 32:39 (NASB)
[SUP]39 [/SUP]‘See now that I, I am He,
And there is no god besides Me;
It is I who put to death and give life.
I have wounded and it is I who heal,
And there is no one who can deliver from My hand.

Notice here that Yahweh says :
1.) He gives life
2.) It is God who puts to death
3.) that no one can deliver from His hand
4.) that there is no god besides Him.

Isaiah 43:12-14 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]“It is I who have declared and saved and proclaimed,
And there was no strange god among you;
So you are My witnesses,” declares the LORD,
“And I am God.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]“Even [SUP][a][/SUP]from eternity I am He,
And there is none who can deliver out of My hand;
I act and who can reverse it?”

Just a note here, look at Isaiah 43:12 -- I don't know Hebrew, but I do know that the translators translated YHWH to LORD. I also am pretty sure that the word "God" here is translated from the word Elohim. This is a case where Yahweh Himself says that He is Elohim. If this is so, how can they be two different gods?

Again, Yahweh says this about Himself:
1.) there is none who can deliver out of His hand.
2.) He also says that from eternity, "I am He."

Now, let's look at the context of John 10:22-30.
Jesus claims these things:
1.) the works that I do in My Father’s name, these testify of Me
2.) I give eternal life to them (It is I who give life -- Deuteronomy 32:39)
3.) they will never perish (It is I who put to death -- Deuteronomy 32:39)
4.) no one will snatch them out of My hand. (There is no one who can deliver from My hand Deuteronomy 32:39; there is none who can deliver out of My Hand -- Isaiah 43:13)

Why?
My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
(So Jesus is essentially saying that what is true of the Father is also true of Him).

Ultimately because:
I and the Father are [SUP][e][/SUP]one.
(In other words, Jesus and the Father are the same God -- Yahweh.)

Now do you understand why the Jews considered this blasphemy?

His statement wasn't "We're one because we're one in purpose." To interpret John 10:30 as you do would not be blasphemy. The Jews only believed in one God, Yahweh. Jesus was making a direct claim in John 10 that He Himself was Yahweh, just as the Father is Yahweh.

This is the context of John 10.
(end of quote from other thread)

So, my point with bringing up Deuteronomy 32:39 and Isaiah 43:12-14 in relation to the verses from John 10 that we are discussing is to show that Jesus is God (Yahweh), and that His words were taken by the Jews as such.

Verse 33 shows that the Jews fully understood Jesus to be claiming that He was God (Yahweh).

Jesus' response in verses 34-36 is somewhat sarcastic. Basically, He is saying that if He really is God (Yahweh), then it is very appropriate for Him to claim that, and it is not blasphemous. Jesus quoted from Psalm 82:6, so let's flip over to the OT to see what Psalm 82 is about.

Psalm 82 (NASB)
82 God takes His stand in [SUP][a][/SUP]His own congregation;
He judges in the midst of the [SUP][b][/SUP]rulers.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]How long will you judge unjustly
And show partiality to the wicked? [SUP][c][/SUP]Selah.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Vindicate the weak and fatherless;
Do justice to the afflicted and destitute.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Rescue the weak and needy;
Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.


[SUP]5 [/SUP]They do not know nor do they understand;
They walk about in darkness;
All the foundations of the earth are shaken.
[SUP]6 [/SUP][SUP][d][/SUP]I said, “You are gods,
And all of you are sons of the Most High.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]“Nevertheless you will die like men
And fall like any one of the princes.”
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Arise, O God, judge the earth!
For it is You who possesses all the nations.



Do you see how Jesus' response to them was sarcastic, in light of what Psalm 82 is about?

Again in verses 37-39 of John 10 Jesus shows us the purpose of His miracles, signs, and wonders. They are to point to who He is. He is the Messiah, and He is the Son of God (God in the flesh). The Jews, again, understood Jesus' comments as blasphemous, so they again were going to stone Him.

John chapter 10 clearly proclaims Jesus' deity.

And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

This is where I get what I said from.


Are we still talking about Jesus is God? I never denied he wasn't.. Yes Jesus is God..... As I said for he did not "come down"(if I say come down he had to decend) as God... He had to do everything as a man.

2 Therefore if you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any common sharing in the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, 2 then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. 3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, 4 not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.

5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

 

[Cobus]

I said young man becasue I am jelous on you for being so wise and reading the Bible, I only started at age 38 and a half... But I will say this, I love how quick you repent. THAT IS GOD AT WORK ON YOU.... My friend fro mnow on we will EDIFY you me simiel Bookie Angela and all here on CC.

If we can take repreman and rebuking in TRUTH, we will LOVE TO BE ONE.... God will make us ONE POWERFUL HOLY GODLY COMMUNION...

Thank you Lord that your LOVE will be the victorer in ALL OF US THAT CAN TAKE REBUKE, AND LOVE ONE ANOTHER... THANK YOU LORD THAT YOUR WILL WAS DONE IN ME AND WANDERER.... LORD LET THOU WILL BE DONE IN US AS IN HEAVEN< AMEN!

 

[Simiel]

Paul and the apostles, 72 disciples, the corinth church did these signs,wonders etc... So what did it confirm? That God was with them? Even nicomdumis said that.. "Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that you do, unless God is with him."

Is God not with us??

Even Samson had super strength when God spirit was with him. He hear he will give mayweather a good fight. Lol
Moses, Elijah etc. all did for God was with them

. I believe we put God in a box with our human wisdom

 

[Simiel]

Wow wanderer we are the same age,...

 

[Arwen4CJ]

If I told you In my city there was was tornnado watch yesterday and the winds were blowing around 60mph and raining hard and in Jesus name I said tornado you are not aloud here, winds rest and rain stop. And it did instantly. Would not believe me?

For in that He put all in subjection under him, He left nothing that is not put under him. But now we do not yet see all things put under him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.

And what does this mean to you? If you don't mine me asking.

People can claim that they push away storms all they like -- but the reality is that they cannot.

I don't think that God would make His power to push away storms unless there was an extreme circumstance....He doesn't make His power available for us to show off or to try to copy every miracle that Jesus performed.

In the ancient world, to be able to control weather and storms and stuff like Jesus did showed His deity.

Hebrews 2:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]You have put all things in subjection under his feet.”For in subjecting all things to him, He left nothing that is not subject to him. But now we do not yet see all things subjected to him.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]But we do see Him who was made [SUP][j][/SUP]for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

Jesus is our sacrifice. He took on the human nature so that He could be our sacrifice and reconcile us back to God. Everything goes back to Jesus' life, death, and bodily resurrection.

 

[Arwen4CJ]

@Arwen. Nice I really like your reasonings and I can agree to them from my understanding of your statement. Very cool on adding in the Micah prophesy, just one of many prophecies about Jesus provably written before the time-period of the Gospels. Which of course adds greater weight to Jesus divine claim. Also cool on the quote of Jesus showing how He was around before Abraham. It seems to me unless I am misinterpreting you; you and me are on the same page of thinking in terms of believing Jesus is The Word.

Yes, John said "the Word" was the preincarnate Jesus.

 

[Simiel]

People can claim that they push away storms all they like -- but the reality is that they cannot.

I don't think that God would make His power to push away storms unless there was an extreme circumstance....He doesn't make His power available for us to show off or to try to copy every miracle that Jesus performed.

In the ancient world, to be able to control weather and storms and stuff like Jesus did showed His deity.

Hebrews 2:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]You have put all things in subjection under his feet.”For in subjecting all things to him, He left nothing that is not subject to him. But now we do not yet see all things subjected to him.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]But we do see Him who was made [SUP][j][/SUP]for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

Jesus is our sacrifice. He took on the human nature so that He could be our sacrifice and reconcile us back to God. Everything goes back to Jesus' life, death, and bodily resurrection.

Well it must have been a extreme circumstance.. Lol

What's does He made everything under subjected to him. Mean to you?.. Hope you know "him" he is talk about us...

 

[Arwen4CJ]

Does God control this earth?


And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

It would be better if you just keep quiet. According to Solomon.

You've completely taken that passage out of context. That passage doesn't say that we humans can control the earth. Nowhere does any NT writer claim that we have total control over the earth. God alone is sovereign.

 

[Simiel]

You've completely taken that passage out of context. That passage doesn't say that we humans can control the earth. Nowhere does any NT writer claim that we have total control over the earth. God alone is sovereign.

Lol I was asking him a question. That passage was nothing about us.... I was just showing him we know what God knows since we have his spirit. Don't jump to assumptions my brother

 

[Arwen4CJ]

Oh how silly a person is to believe the Holy Spirit is GOD HIMSLEF (how silly to believe God) (how silly to believe God is the NEW PERSON IN ALL SAVED... And yet it is TRUE.... I would like to ask Wonderer6059: DID Jesus ask God to place HIM IN MY PLACE? Wonderer did Jesus ask to be me? And did He also ask God to let me be HIM here on earth?

If you say no GO READ JOHN 17..... I wish people would ask God what happens to the old man that calls other people idiots.... God said if you call another person an idiot (RAKA) you are as accountable as a murderer. You might as well go and murder that person. Fortunately not even murder is a non- repentable offence... ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS STOP CALLING PEOPLE THAT NAME...

I had ample oppertunity to call you an idiot by the words you preach but I would rather reproof in patience and longsuffering WITH GOD'S WORD not my emotions...

Wonderer, every person BORN OF GOD is a living JESUS! The Spirit that gives the NEW CREATURE a life to live PLEASING GOD, is the EXACT Spirit JESUS IN THE FLESH (GOD IN THE FLESH) was. There is not one percent difference between a REBORN OF GOD, and HIS SON JESUS IN THE FLESH.... Every person that has teh SEED of God in him, is EXACRLY to the measure, stature and fulness of Jesus.... Read Eph 4:13....

Every person is not a living Jesus. We do not become Jesus, and we never will.

That theology "Seed of God" that you are using is identical to what is taught in gnostic/New Age/occult/hyper-charismatic circles.

All that doctrine that you quoted above does is pull Jesus down to our level, and elevate us to Jesus' level. If you seriously think there is no difference between us and Jesus in nature, then I don't think that the discussion is over.

I see how you are using Ephesians 4:13, but you are taking it completely out of context, and using it in a way that it was not intended.

If anyone is curious about this false doctrine, google "Manifest Sons of God." Then you'll know the exact issues at stake here.

This is why a sinner CANNOT be a child of God.... God's PEOPLE ARE ALL AS PERFECT AND GODLY AS CHRSIT JESUS HIMSELF. If you wanrt me to prove it with Scripture... Read John 17. 1 John 3:9, 1 John 5:18. Eph 4:11 to 18. Titus 2:12. Mat 5:48.. ETC ETC....

If God makes you in the likeness of Jesus, HE DOES NOT FAIL....

And I suppose you claim that you no longer have a sinful nature, and that you do not sin?

The Second Coming of Jesus hasn't happened yet. Sorry.

 

[wanderer6059]

Wow wanderer we are the same age,...

5 Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;

yep and when my brother that's my age is wrong i correct him and call him out.
i am sorry if i was to harsh with you simiel, but i know you are wrong.
i teat my brothers and sister 7 of witch i am the oldest just like i have you when there wrong
cobus gave accurate verses and made me think but you have just been putting up nonsense.

 

[Arwen4CJ]

Wonderer if God's Spirit is the only one that knows the thoughts of God and God GIVES ME HIS SPIRIT TO RESIDE IN ME, would he come with the thoghts of God, so I also know them?

God wants us to know HIM, and the Spirit of GOD IS GOD.... Or who is He in your mind? Do you know what happens if God's SPIRIT FILLS YOU? Who are you when the Spirit of God fills you? Are you still WONDERER6059? Or are you Christ Jesus? Who is the Holy Spirit? You or GOD?

We do not become any Person of the triune God when we are filled with the Holy Spirit. We are still us. The Holy Spirit just dwells in us.

 

[wanderer6059]

Lol I was asking him a question. That passage was nothing about us.... I was just showing him we know what God knows since we have his spirit. Don't jump to assumptions my brother

There’s no way we can possibly know or comprehend all that God has in HIS mind and plan for us, as confirmed in 1 Corinthians 2:9-11, which says However, as it is written: “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him” —but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man’s spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. And that’s further confirmed in Ephesians 3:19-21, which says and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God. Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen.

our feeble minds cannot comprehend him, you can it is the Spirit in you that knows Him then the Spirit you could say give us what we need in a way that we can understand Ie the Bible. truth is God is to big for us to full understand or hear or see.

 

[Simiel]

Well guys I am Honored to speak with you all.. You are all amazing wonderful men/women of God.. There's thing I have to do and have to go for some days.. So all replys from me will cease at 12 my time... Don't want y'all to think I left y'all hanging.. It was a privilege in speaking with you all.. God bless and I ask you pray for me

 

[Arwen4CJ]

And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

This is where I get what I said from.


Are we still talking about Jesus is God? I never denied he wasn't.. Yes Jesus is God..... As I said for he did not "come down"(if I say come down he had to decend) as God... He had to do everything as a man.

2 Therefore if you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any common sharing in the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, 2 then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. 3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, 4 not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.

5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

OK -- I am backing out of this thread. This is my last post. I cannot have a conversation with someone who is not discussing things logically, and who says whatever they feel like, and who contradicts themselves.

Yes, you did deny Jesus' deity. I specifically asked you if you believed that Jesus was God.

Here is what you said:

Post #136
Good response. Peter mind was carnal of humans wisdom which is from satan.

Could not the same happen to Jesus? He came down as a man not God. For we know God can't be tempted.

Post #141
As I said b4 God couldn't be tempted. He did everything as a man to show that we all could do the same with his Spirit. Same as I am in Christ and Christ is in I.. But can I be tempted? Yes

So if your asking me was Jesus God no. But was they 1 yep.

To say, "He came down as a man and not God," is to say, "He is not God."
To say, "He had to do everything as a man," is to say, "He is only man."
Over and over in this thread you keep saying that Jesus is only a man empowered by the Holy Spirit.

I'm guessing that you are appealing to kenosis now, even though I can't say for sure because you did not explain the Philippians passage. I do know how some use this passage to try to claim that Jesus was God, then gave up being God while on earth, and then became God again after He was resurrected.

However, that is a misinterpretation of the text. The text is about Jesus humbling Himself -- He humbled Himself when He took on the human nature, and His deity was veiled. He didn't give it up.

I wish you well, I just cannot participate in this thread anymore for the reasons given above.

 

[Arwen4CJ]

Well guys I am Honored to speak with you all.. You are all amazing wonderful men/women of God.. There's thing I have to do and have to go for some days.. So all replys from me will cease at 12 my time... Don't want y'all to think I left y'all hanging.. It was a privilege in speaking with you all.. God bless and I ask you pray for me

Then the decision is mutual.

It's been a good discussion, and I'm glad that we had it. I will pray for you, and I hope that God leads you into truth and away from some of the heresies that you've believed so far. I believe that you do want the truth from God. I believe that He can work in your heart and show you the truth.

I will pray for you.