BREAKING COVENANT

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Rockbysea said:
You do not understand covenant. Just because you proclaim yourself as being saved, Christian or a believer does not mean you entered into an agreement with God. A covenant (contract) must be ratified by both parties and no one can force God to ratify an agreement just because they think they are saved.

And when you say, “or simply a ‘follower of Christ’.” Following Christ is not “simply” (simple) whereas proclaiming to be saved, a believer or a Christian is simple. Many proclaim to be saved, a believer or a Christian but are not a “follower of Christ”,
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YOU do not understand covenant God’s way. It is obvious. If you had taken the time to seriously read what I have already posted, you would see exactly what I am saying. Even as recently as Christ’s lifetime on earth, a covenant meant much more than what we consider it to be today.

Looking at the pictorial Hebrew we find that: Covenant entails anything given by God from the beginning to bring together His family to the completion in the cross. This plan, called covenant was established before creation. The promise of this covenant is given to all, but completed with those who believe it and want it and trust it. (This would be the “ratified” you mentioned.)

I am well aware that just because someone claims to be a Christian, that does not mean they really are. I am offended that you would sit in judgment of my spiritual state and determine what I do or do not understand with no substance to your claims.

I have more to post on this thread and by the time you read it all I certainly hope you have a better grasp of the concept that I share for the edification of others in the body of Christ, the true church.
 
just-us-2 said:
Looking at the pictorial Hebrew we find that: Covenant entails anything given by God from the beginning to bring together His family. to the completion in the cross.
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No it does not. God made many covenants. This “plan called covenant” is your invention. There’s no “plan called covenant” in the bible and this “pictorial Hebrew” stuff sounds nice but means nothing.

just-us-2 said:
The promise of this covenant
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Again: there is more than one covenant. This is your invention to merge all covenants into one big covenant for the purpose of enslaving others under your own make-believe covenants/contracts. It’s obvious by the crowd that agrees with you: the old covenant butchers.

just-us-2 said:
I am well aware that just because someone claims to be a Christian, that does not mean they really are. I am offended that you would sit in judgment of my spiritual state and determine what I do or do not understand with no substance to your claims.
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You said that “we enter into Covenant when we proclaim ourselves to be “saved”” This is not true. Just because one proclaims to be saved does not mean that they enter into covenant with God. So no need to be offended because I point out your untruths. All this is for the purpose of binding people to make-believe covenants. Now if you're offended by me pointing out your untruths and can’t take the heat then get out of the kitchen.

just-us-2 said:
I have more to post on this thread
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Good for you. You posted enough to convince me you are making things up out of your head so I’m not going to waste too much time reading the rest of your made up stuff although I may quickly skim through it.
 
Rockbysea said:


No it does not. God made many covenants. This “plan called covenant” is your invention. There’s no “plan called covenant” in the bible and this “pictorial Hebrew” stuff sounds nice but means nothing.



Again: there is more than one covenant. This is your invention to merge all covenants into one big covenant for the purpose of enslaving others under your own make-believe covenants/contracts. It’s obvious by the crowd that agrees with you: the old covenant butchers.



You said that “we enter into Covenant when we proclaim ourselves to be “saved”” This is not true. Just because one proclaims to be saved does not mean that they enter into covenant with God. So no need to be offended because I point out your untruths. All this is for the purpose of binding people to make-believe covenants. Now if you're offended by me pointing out your untruths and can’t take the heat then get out of the kitchen.



Good for you. You posted enough to convince me you are making things up out of your head so I’m not going to waste too much time reading the rest of your made up stuff although I may quickly skim through it.
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Just to let you know after the discussion I went back to the Hebrew language and looked up covenant through the Strong's concordance, and found that she is describing it correctly with other things that she is presenting. I'm going to wait to see what the end result is before drawing an opinion. I think she is describing the fulfillment of all the covenants from the beginning of time. I could be that she has all of them considered as complete through Christ.

This is her quote
Most of us probably never even looked at our salvation as a covenant with God but we enter into Covenant when we proclaim ourselves to be “saved” or a “believer or “a Christian” or simply a “follower of Christ.”


I think she meant to say that we enter into covenant when we are saved, rather than proclaiming ourselves as saved. You and I both know that proclaiming salvation does necessary mean that we have it. Entering into a covenant is truly by word of mouth. Hear is some scripture that shows Israel proclaiming that they will live up to the Word of God, but both of us know that they didn't.

Exodus 24:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do.

They entered into covenant, but they didn't keep the agreement. I do agree with your statement "Just because one proclaims to be saved does not mean that they enter into covenant with God." From what is written so far is just a beginning of explanation. I'm going to let her speak what she has on her mind and then make my judgment.
 
Just-us-2, I have really enjoyed your thread and am so anxious to read more! I did not understand that verse likening followers to salt and always wondered about that. I did not know about a salt covenant.

I hope you continue.:)

Proverbs 1:20 Wisdom is like a woman shouting in the street; she raises her voice in the city squares.
 
just-me said:
Just to let you know after the discussion I went back to the Hebrew language and looked up covenant through the Strong's concordance, and found that she is describing it correctly with other things that she is presenting. I'm going to wait to see what the end result is before drawing an opinion. I think she is describing the fulfillment of all the covenants from the beginning of time. I could be that she has all of them considered as complete through Christ.

This is her quote
Most of us probably never even looked at our salvation as a covenant with God but we enter into Covenant when we proclaim ourselves to be “saved” or a “believer or “a Christian” or simply a “follower of Christ.”


I think she meant to say that we enter into covenant when we are saved, rather than proclaiming ourselves as saved. You and I both know that proclaiming salvation does necessary mean that we have it. Entering into a covenant is truly by word of mouth. Hear is some scripture that shows Israel proclaiming that they will live up to the Word of God, but both of us know that they didn't.

Exodus 24:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do.

They entered into covenant, but they didn't keep the agreement. I do agree with your statement "Just because one proclaims to be saved does not mean that they enter into covenant with God." From what is written so far is just a beginning of explanation. I'm going to let her speak what she has on her mind and then make my judgment.
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She is merging the covenants into her own contract which is exactly what the old covenant butchers do which is why you’re all here supporting her.

To “proclaim” you are saved is a proclamation. If she doesn’t mean what she says then better she not say anything at all.

The old covenant was read into the ears of the people and they acknowledged it with a vocal proclamation. That has nothing to do with the New Covenant. The New Covenant is not read into the ears of the people and it is not acknowledged by a vocal proclamation but by the Holy Spirit… It’s not like magic where one says “hocus-pocus” and they are saved. But many pull the “confess with your lips” scripture out of context and as a result there are millions of deviants running around who think they are saved contrasting the old covenant butchers who think they are saved by their make-believe contracts. I really don’t know which is worse but they both lead to the same end.
 
Because they hated knowledge
and did not choose the fear of Adonai,
[SUP]30 [/SUP]they refused my counsel
and despised my reproof.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]So they will bear the consequences of their own way
and be overfilled with their own schemes.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]For the aimless wandering of the thoughtless will kill them,
and the smug overconfidence of fools will destroy them;
[SUP]33 [/SUP]but those who pay attention to me will live securely,
untroubled by fear of misfortune.”
 
RedTent said:
It is my understanding that you are reading Paul as telling us that because God gives us grace, and we receive that grace through Christ, then we must not listen to law, is that correct?..............
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No, that is not correct.
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
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If you want to put yourself under the law, go ahead. That will get you eternal punishment. If you obey the two commandments that God has given us, through Christ, the law will never have any application in your life. If you spent more time studying the new testament, which replaced the old, because the old was rotting away, you might understand more of the subject. Clinging to the law is not going to get you there my friend.
 
Rockbysea said:
She is merging the covenants into her own contract which is exactly what the old covenant butchers do which is why you’re all here supporting her.

To “proclaim” you are saved is a proclamation. If she doesn’t mean what she says then better she not say anything at all.

The old covenant was read into the ears of the people and they acknowledged it with a vocal proclamation. That has nothing to do with the New Covenant. The New Covenant is not read into the ears of the people and it is not acknowledged by a vocal proclamation but by the Holy Spirit… It’s not like magic where one says “hocus-pocus” and they are saved. But many pull the “confess with your lips” scripture out of context and as a result there are millions of deviants running around who think they are saved contrasting the old covenant butchers who think they are saved by their make-believe contracts. I really don’t know which is worse but they both lead to the same end.
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One cannot fulfill something that no longer exists. That the first part away, and the project falls apart. There was a reason Jesus said this.

John 5:44-47 (KJV)
[SUP]44 [/SUP]How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Not only that, but everything Jesus taught was the Old testament.

Hebrews 9:16-17 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

It’s not like magic where one says “hocus-pocus” and they are saved.

Agreed
 
How long will scorners find pleasure in mocking?
How long will fools hate knowledge?
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Repent when I reprove —
I will pour out my spirit to you,
I will make my words known to you.
 
Rockbysea said:
just-me said:
I was looking more for the ancient flavor but if you can find an accurate "pictorial Hebrew" please post it.
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How 'bout......search the scriptures. Cartoons are for children. Your disrespect is also childish. Every thread on CC gets turned into a who can outdo the other with their own cleaver mind. We all all wads of clay. We are subject to the Almighty, and it pains me to see His Word twisted and mocked. I can only imagine how He feels about it. Maybe we should regard what He thinks, more than what we think.
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phil112 said:
If you want to put yourself under the law, go ahead. That will get you eternal punishment. If you obey the two commandments that God has given us, through Christ, the law will never have any application in your life. If you spent more time studying the new testament, which replaced the old, because the old was rotting away, you might understand more of the subject. Clinging to the law is not going to get you there my friend.
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For your enlightenment. If the Old Testament is replaced then Jesus' teaching and miracles before his death mean nothing because it was during the old Testament.

Hebrews 9:16-17 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Now we go the the love commandments. If the Old testament is gone, the instructions of love, given by Jesus, are also gone. So then we should look back, not to be under the law, but to get over the law, and investigate the instructions of how to love so we aren't vulnerable to make up our own rules. Allow me to present a small part of the instructions on how to love God and our neighbor.

Deuteronomy 6:1-6 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

Luke 10:25-29 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
[SUP]26 [/SUP]He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?

I ask you. Am I your neighbor?
Leviticus 19:13-18 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.


Just sayin' for the light to shine as it should. I ask again. Do you love me?
 
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[SUP]15 [/SUP]It is because of this death that he is mediator of a new covenant [or will].[SUP][a][/SUP] Because a death has occurred which sets people free from the transgressions committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promised eternal inheritance. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For where there is a will, there must necessarily be produced evidence of its maker’s death, [SUP]17 [/SUP]since a will goes into effect only upon death; it never has force while its maker is still alive.



Just another rendering of translation. Many do not understand how testament is covenant. I didn't know it for a long time.

The new or renewed covenant, enforces the old.

Some cling to the cross (more likely it was a stake, but that's another topic) and falsely think it means go your way, do as is fitting in your eyes. We have no law anymore, ..That is folly.

What was nailed to the stake along with Messiah was our sin, and man's adding to instructions/law...and blood sacrifice, for Messiah was the end of blood sacrifice for our sins.

How many times did Messiah heal people, then say "go and sin no more"..What is sin? Breaking Torah, lawlessness, that is sin.
 
Karraster said:
The new or renewed covenant, enforces the old.....
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WRONG!!! The new covenant REPLACED the old. What is it about plain scripture that makes you want to reject it so easily?

Hebrews 8:13In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
 
I love you brother Just-me! I love brother Rockbysea, even tho I do get frustrated with him sometimes. ~wink~ I know he too gets frustrated with me! We are all trying to find our way, we stumble and get back up, over and over...it is life.
 
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