The Truth About The Sabbath
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First, what you or I say means nothing, it is what God says we are to listen to.
Scripture tells us that to know Christ is to know God, and it would work the other way. You are stating "His, not God's". That cannot be, so you would have to go back and think this through in light of that truth. Also, you are taking your interpretation of Paul's words to be in direct opposition to the words of Christ, your savior. That also, cannot be.
Your interpretation of "not under the law", again, would mean that one scripture is in opposition to another. That is your decision, not the result of written scripture. You read it as saying that we are not to listen to law, in direct opposition to scripture that says we are to listen to it, it is given by God to those who belong to Him, given for our benefit. I read it as saying that if I break the law, Christ forgives me so the law cannot harm me. With your way, you cannot accept the blessings of how to walk in God's paths except through what your mind can absorb of the Holy Spirit, in my way you can be guided by the Holy Spirit and scripture, too.
Scripture tells us that to know Christ is to know God, and it would work the other way. You are stating "His, not God's". That cannot be, so you would have to go back and think this through in light of that truth. Also, you are taking your interpretation of Paul's words to be in direct opposition to the words of Christ, your savior. That also, cannot be.
Your interpretation of "not under the law", again, would mean that one scripture is in opposition to another. That is your decision, not the result of written scripture. You read it as saying that we are not to listen to law, in direct opposition to scripture that says we are to listen to it, it is given by God to those who belong to Him, given for our benefit. I read it as saying that if I break the law, Christ forgives me so the law cannot harm me. With your way, you cannot accept the blessings of how to walk in God's paths except through what your mind can absorb of the Holy Spirit, in my way you can be guided by the Holy Spirit and scripture, too.
I am not an SDA but I do attend COGWA. Now what is your affiliation? Also, what does this have to do with the truth of the scriptures.
This is the oldest dodge in the book, if you can't refute the argument, resort to name calling. "You are a member of a cult."
Now tell us which witch hunting cult you belong to.
This is the oldest dodge in the book, if you can't refute the argument, resort to name calling. "You are a member of a cult."
Now tell us which witch hunting cult you belong to.
Good point…. All these things about which day to observe are personal preferences and not requirements. Once people start going around and telling believers that these personal preferences are requirements then whether they mean to or not they align themselves with one of these cults. I agree...to evangelize to the world with torah telling people they have to obey it to be saved is a recent phenomenon because the ancient Israelites never evangelized to the world.
However the torah was evangelized a short time during the early assembly when a sect of Pharisees were going abroad and troubling non-Jewish believers saying they had to be circumcised and to keep the law of Moses (which included all the Sabbaths). This activity was quickly terminated by a decree that went out of Jerusalem comforting those troubled non-Jewish believers by saying that they only had to abstain from sexual immorality, foods strangled and/or offered to idols.
What we have here today are a few sects of non-Jewish believers doing exactly what a sect of early Jewish believers did telling believers that they have to keep the Sabbath to be saved (which is part of the torah and the law of Moses). This is an act of rebellion: they are ignoring the decree that went out of Jerusalem contained in a letter written by Jews (the apostles) that was authorized by the Holy Spirit.
They are also using deceptive tactics to reinterpret that decree to mean the exact opposite of what it said. They are saying that the decree was in support of the Pharisee sect. They are twisting the scripture to say that the decree ordered that the Law of Moses be preached to the gentiles every Sabbath. And of course the Law of Moses included circumcision and all the other Sabbaths contained in the torah. And the decree itself (abstaining from sexual immorality, foods strangled and/or offered to idols) was just a caveat…. a warning that if they keep the Law of Moses and taught it on every Sabbath it would be all in vain without the caveat.
Now how could a decree that was made up to alleviate the anxieties of the non-Jewish believers resulting from a Pharisee sect that was “unsettling their souls”, relieve their anxieties by ordering them to do even more than what the Pharisee sect was telling them they had to do?
It’s obvious that this is not coming from followers of Christ but followers of a modern day evangelical torah cult in the guise of being followers of Christ. The reason why this is so is because the scriptures suggest that the Pharisee sect during the early assembly heeded the decree that went out of Jerusalem. This means that although they observed the Law of Moses they feared the law of Christ much more and obeyed His apostles. This is an indication that they were true converts. And it would stand to reason that if Jewish converts who have kept the Law of Moses from their tradition can obey the commands of Christ’s apostles then non-Jewish converts should find it even easier to obey. But because these modern-day non-Jewish torah evangelicals will not obey Christ this is clear evidence that they not His followers.
However the torah was evangelized a short time during the early assembly when a sect of Pharisees were going abroad and troubling non-Jewish believers saying they had to be circumcised and to keep the law of Moses (which included all the Sabbaths). This activity was quickly terminated by a decree that went out of Jerusalem comforting those troubled non-Jewish believers by saying that they only had to abstain from sexual immorality, foods strangled and/or offered to idols.
What we have here today are a few sects of non-Jewish believers doing exactly what a sect of early Jewish believers did telling believers that they have to keep the Sabbath to be saved (which is part of the torah and the law of Moses). This is an act of rebellion: they are ignoring the decree that went out of Jerusalem contained in a letter written by Jews (the apostles) that was authorized by the Holy Spirit.
They are also using deceptive tactics to reinterpret that decree to mean the exact opposite of what it said. They are saying that the decree was in support of the Pharisee sect. They are twisting the scripture to say that the decree ordered that the Law of Moses be preached to the gentiles every Sabbath. And of course the Law of Moses included circumcision and all the other Sabbaths contained in the torah. And the decree itself (abstaining from sexual immorality, foods strangled and/or offered to idols) was just a caveat…. a warning that if they keep the Law of Moses and taught it on every Sabbath it would be all in vain without the caveat.
Now how could a decree that was made up to alleviate the anxieties of the non-Jewish believers resulting from a Pharisee sect that was “unsettling their souls”, relieve their anxieties by ordering them to do even more than what the Pharisee sect was telling them they had to do?
It’s obvious that this is not coming from followers of Christ but followers of a modern day evangelical torah cult in the guise of being followers of Christ. The reason why this is so is because the scriptures suggest that the Pharisee sect during the early assembly heeded the decree that went out of Jerusalem. This means that although they observed the Law of Moses they feared the law of Christ much more and obeyed His apostles. This is an indication that they were true converts. And it would stand to reason that if Jewish converts who have kept the Law of Moses from their tradition can obey the commands of Christ’s apostles then non-Jewish converts should find it even easier to obey. But because these modern-day non-Jewish torah evangelicals will not obey Christ this is clear evidence that they not His followers.
D
Hi danschance,
Are you serious about the " termination of the law " thing ? No way ! When Paul said Christ is the end of the law,
the end of the law mentioned here does not mean " termination of the law " in any way,
but that means Christ is the ultimate fulfillment of the law! For He is the Alpha and the Omega !
This is what Christ tells for that matter : [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]" [/FONT]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. "
Matthew 5:17
The Whole Scripture is ONE and cannot contradict itself in any way !
Blessed be His Word at ANY period of human history !
Maranatha !
Are you serious about the " termination of the law " thing ? No way ! When Paul said Christ is the end of the law,
the end of the law mentioned here does not mean " termination of the law " in any way,
but that means Christ is the ultimate fulfillment of the law! For He is the Alpha and the Omega !
This is what Christ tells for that matter : [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]" [/FONT]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. "
Matthew 5:17
The Whole Scripture is ONE and cannot contradict itself in any way !
Blessed be His Word at ANY period of human history !
Maranatha !
then how do you separate circumcision from the Law, because we are told in several Scriptures to not bother getting circumcised...
obviously the Law has nothing to do with salvation, and in that sense it is "terminated" because it's primary function (the condemnation of the disobedient) is no longer functioning for a Christian, because we are free from condemnation.
obviously the Law has nothing to do with salvation, and in that sense it is "terminated" because it's primary function (the condemnation of the disobedient) is no longer functioning for a Christian, because we are free from condemnation.
Opposers of the Seventh Day Sabbath claim that although the Almighty Creator made the Sabbath for man, it had no real value to him, physically or spiritually. They claim that man could have gotten along without it just as well; and since that was the case, it came to an end at the cross. It seems strange indeed that the Almighty would say so much in favor of the observance of the Sabbath, even to meting out the death sentence to those who presumptously violated it if it had not intrinsic value whatever. It is not pleasant to show up such absurd inconsistencies, but at times it is necessary to show how very groundless are the claims of those who despise the Creators rest day. In the face of these facts how can it be intelligently and scripturally claim that this memorial is Jewish in origin or application? Actually the Almighty Creator rested on the seventh day more than 2000 years before there were any Jews.
Perhaps you do not understand circumcision...
Deu 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!
Deu 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.
Prophetically speaking...
Deu 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
Deu 30:7 And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee.
Deu 30:8 And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.
There is a time when Israel will have a heart to obey.
God has always intended that His people be circumcised...
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
And as we read in Deuteronomy, He has always intended that it be of the heart.
Deu 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!
Deu 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.
Prophetically speaking...
Deu 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
Deu 30:7 And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee.
Deu 30:8 And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.
There is a time when Israel will have a heart to obey.
God has always intended that His people be circumcised...
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
And as we read in Deuteronomy, He has always intended that it be of the heart.
D
You might believe that but the passage states end and the Greek word telos most often is translated as end. Most English bibles also state end in this passage. The Greek word in Matt 5:11-12 for fulfill is plēroō, not telos. When Christ fulfilled the Mosaic laws they have been brought to an end for the NT believer. We are now under the moral law of Christ.
J
All due respect brother but this is a straw man argument. I have never once in my life heard anyone argue saying the Sabbath had "no real value" or "we could have gotten along fine without it."
A straw man, as I understand It, is saying "you believe this" and listing a bunch of things your opponent doesn't believe, and then knocking down the things you listed. You can see how that is...not the best way to argue a topic.
The bible tells me if you want to personally keep the Sabbath(however you can accomplish that according to the exact directions God gave), fine. You are not to tell me I must keep it, and I am not to tell you you shouldnt. But there does seem to be a fine line somewhere where a person trying to keep the old covenant law can cross over into apostate land. I'm not sure where that is drawn. The "law keeper" says those who don't do what they do is in danger, and the "free from the curse of the law" people say those who try to keep the old covenant law to be justified are in danger. It is what it is.
A straw man, as I understand It, is saying "you believe this" and listing a bunch of things your opponent doesn't believe, and then knocking down the things you listed. You can see how that is...not the best way to argue a topic.
The bible tells me if you want to personally keep the Sabbath(however you can accomplish that according to the exact directions God gave), fine. You are not to tell me I must keep it, and I am not to tell you you shouldnt. But there does seem to be a fine line somewhere where a person trying to keep the old covenant law can cross over into apostate land. I'm not sure where that is drawn. The "law keeper" says those who don't do what they do is in danger, and the "free from the curse of the law" people say those who try to keep the old covenant law to be justified are in danger. It is what it is.