"I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

[phil112]

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

No, I simply KNOW that God is not you and you are not God and your mind is not God's mind and your ways are not His and your thoughts are not His, tuck, phil. So, why do you continue to think you are God, that, as tuck put it, women who are NOW pastoring churches, with me, are 'thinking they are being called.' They are CALLED, they are speaking the words Gods wanting them to use, they are being USED by God, too. Either way, yep, you got it, phil , I'm glad you're finally getting it, well, besides the fact that you keep calling me a liar ..............

If you don't want someone to notice that you lie, stop lying. There, isn't that easy?

I believe in the bible. I believe will all my heart and soul it is the inspired word of God, and I believe the KJV to be the best available version. I believe in sola scriptura.

That is where we part ways. The difference between you and I is very fundamental. You DON"T believe the bible is the inspired word of God. You say you do, but that is lip service. "In vain do you worship" when you pay lip service to Christ.
God told Paul "Be not afraid, but speak, and hold not thy peace" and Paul said he was "set for the defence of the gospel".
Paul told Timothy(and you and I) "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."
Except using "all scripture" convicts you of your apostate doctrine, so you try to dismiss it. That is not a good thing. When I do as Paul told all followers of Christ to do, that is to stand for the gospel, you attack and blaspheme by accusing me of usurping God's position.

Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. [SUP] [/SUP]Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
[SUP] [/SUP]For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
[SUP] [/SUP]Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and

having done all, to stand.

This a war. You are aligned against the Spirit of God, which brought us the birth of Christ to die for our sins, and the word of God so that we may have hope of salvation.

Christ has given me a full arsenal with which to overcome false doctrine:

Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; [SUP] [/SUP]And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; [SUP] [/SUP]Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. [SUP] [/SUP]And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

My sword is powerful indeed, and with two sharp edges:

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Your position has revealed your thoughts and intents. You are defending someone that preaches, and you desire to be a teacher yourself. A self-serving agenda is not going to work for you if you truly seek eternal life.

Do you want to face Christ on that day and say "I really thought that's what it meant"?

Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; [SUP] [/SUP]And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
[SUP] [/SUP]For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

The scripture is plain. Paul wrote so that we would know the previously hidden gospel. I have been faithful to quote accurately the words given us by Christ, thru Paul. The words you so freely reject and accuse me of being to dumb to understand. That must be what you mean. You tell ne you understand it and I don't. Clear scripture.

These words from the bible, the word of God that was made flesh and dwelt among us, the very words you say mean something other than what they say, are going to judge you. I hope and pray you understand that.

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[GreenNnice]

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

You are having blind faith. You are having faith in something God tells us in his word he does not permit.

No, tuck, as I pointed out to you, in this thread, the words, 'She is to be quiet,' speaks DIRECTLY to a woman who is out of line, who is asking questions during the service, when, she is to be QUIET

That is what 1 Timothy 2:11-12 get across , from Paul, she is to be quiet (when a man is speaking to her). She is not to speak over that man or try to teach when she's being taught. Paul explains further in 1 Tim. 2:13 why? Man was created first. And, woman was 'deceived.' She is not the one FIRST in the ORDER, she was deceived, she needs to understand that, IN MOST CASES, God is going to CALL men to be pastors of churches. Just is. It's in these words and it's in 1 Tim. 3 as I point out in the opening post But CAN God do things different, can God's ways be different, can God use a woman to pastor over men? You bet ! He can and He has and women are pastors in churches ALL over the USA and the world, too. And, God is using them as there faith in Him goes, so, it also, grows


Phil, i've tried to explain to you numerous times of how God operates, which is NOT how we operate. Yes, God uses men in the bible, God tells us a bishop is to be 'husband of one wife,' but, God CAN still, despite that knowledge Phil, God can still use a woman to pastor a church, and, over men

 

[phil112]

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

................God CAN still, despite that knowledge Phil, God can still use a woman to pastor a church, and, over men

Nothing is impossible for God, except lying. The analogy I gave still stands. He can drive a car. He can play golf. He can fly an airplane. But He doesn't.

I can kill someone. I am not a murderer UNTIL I do. God doesn't make women pastors UNTIL He does. You make assumptions and you have ABSOLUTELY no proof of that. That is wrong. The bible tells us not to do that. You say all kinds of things that aren't true and can't be proven to be true.
You accused me of being a male chauvinist, of wanting to keep women down, of wanting to denigrate women...all lies.
All I can tell about you, I read on this computer monitor. I see a person that tells untruths while smiling. The only thing I know for sure about you, is that when your fingers are typing I probably shouldn't listen to what you're saying.

You do realize the image you are projecting of yourself, don't you? First impressions can't be undone, and in your case, no need to because you repeatedly enforce that first impression.

Have you put off the old man?

Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds

 

[GreenNnice]

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

Nothing is impossible for God, except lying. The analogy I gave still stands. He can drive a car. He can play golf. He can fly an airplane. But He doesn't.

I can kill someone. I am not a murderer UNTIL I do. God doesn't make women pastors UNTIL He does. You make assumptions and you have ABSOLUTELY no proof of that. That is wrong. The bible tells us not to do that. You say all kinds of things that aren't true and can't be proven to be true.
You accused me of being a male chauvinist, of wanting to keep women down, of wanting to denigrate women...all lies.
All I can tell about you, I read on this computer monitor. I see a person that tells untruths while smiling. The only thing I know for sure about you, is that when your fingers are typing I probably shouldn't listen to what you're saying.

You do realize the image you are projecting of yourself, don't you? First impressions can't be undone, and in your case, no need to because you repeatedly enforce that first impression.

Have you put off the old man?

That's right, phil, chauvinistic and not the Lord's will to THINK like that, especially outloud, that's judging of the a horrible kind.

God USES women who are NOW pastors. But, your view, your view, it's a view against women, directly, hardly, fiercely, against women who ARE pastors and who prayerfully DON't but could listen to you tell them that they are going against God's will by, and, I will use tuck's words, 'thinking they are being used.' So sad to THINK that the bible would EVER want us to make someone feel that way, especially someone CALLED and being used by God to shepherd His flock

What does that mean? "God doesn't make women pastors UNTIL He does."

That makes no sense, phil.

 

[tucksma]

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

You miss the whole not permitted to teach part. Sounds pretty absolute. There are no ifs ands or buts in the sentence. Stop ignoring scripture.

 

[GreenNnice]

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

You miss the whole not permitted to teach part. Sounds pretty absolute. There are no ifs ands or buts in the sentence. Stop ignoring scripture.

tuck, it's no ifs, ands, or , buts about it, 1 Timothy 2:11-12 verses are not speaking of a woman not allowed to pastor by Paul. It's laid out clear for you, she is to BE QUIET and LEARN in quietness and full submission (to the one who is TEACHING). Why can't you see this, she is NOT to speak over the man speaking, she is not to teach over the man speaking, but, instead, she is to be quiet. Can't you see this, tuck, phil? It's not hard to see, really

Sigh, you don't get it, so drop it, or, again, hey, let's say the same things over and over and over again, makes no difference to me. The Lord leads

 

[phil112]

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

That's right, phil, chauvinistic .......................

What does that mean? "God doesn't make women pastors UNTIL He does."

That makes no sense, phil.

Too simple for you, eh? Women, or men, make women pastors. Not God. He doesn't make a woman a pastor until He tells you He is going to. And He doesn't drive a car until you see Him driving one. It ain't happened and it ain't gonna happen.

chauvinism: noun - an attitude that the members of your own sex are always better than those of the opposite sex

Tell me, when you lie about me does it bring me down to your level, or you up to mine?

 

[GreenNnice]

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

Too simple for you, eh? Women, or men, make women pastors. Not God. He doesn't make a woman a pastor until He tells you He is going to. And He doesn't drive a car until you see Him driving one. It ain't happened and it ain't gonna happen.

Tell me, when you lie about me does it bring me down to your level, or you up to mine?

No, just didn't understand, phil . Still don't . No matter. The Lord leads.

I don't lie about you, phil, I simply speak the Truth, it's you who wants to think it's a lie

 

[tucksma]

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

tuck, it's no ifs, ands, or , buts about it, 1 Timothy 2:11-12 verses are not speaking of a woman not allowed to pastor by Paul. It's laid out clear for you, she is to BE QUIET and LEARN in quietness and full submission (to the one who is TEACHING). Why can't you see this, she is NOT to speak over the man speaking, she is not to teach over the man speaking, but, instead, she is to be quiet. Can't you see this, tuck, phil? It's not hard to see, really

Sigh, you don't get it, so drop it, or, again, hey, let's say the same things over and over and over again, makes no difference to me. The Lord leads

[h=3]1 Timothy 2:11-12[/h]English Standard Version (ESV)

11 Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet



How clearer does it get. I see your point about "she is to remain quiet" MAYBE going back to 11, but verse 12 says MAN. It doesn't say speaker, the greek supports it being man. Don't throw in a concept that isn't there. It says I doesn't say "over the man teaching" it says over man. I don't understand how one can deny CRYSTAL CLEAR SCRIPTURE.

 

[tucksma]

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

No, just didn't understand, phil . Still don't . No matter. The Lord leads.

I don't lie about you, phil, I simply speak the Truth, it's you who wants to think it's a lie

No you do lie, he isnt chauvinistic. Both Phil and I do not have this opinion because we feel like men are better. We have this view because it says so in scripture that this is how it is. It says women are not permitted to teach men. I don't think men are any better, neither does Phil. Its the concept of different roles in the church between brothers and sisters. You clearly don't understand that concept.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

So if women agree that they should be silent are we chauvinistic too?

 

[tucksma]

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

So if women agree that they should be silent are we chauvinistic too?

According to GreenNice

 

[Elizabeth619]

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

According to GreenNice

Im not getting in this debate. I have done it over and over again and it gets nowhere, but if I am chauvinistic then so be it.

 

[phil112]

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

Im not getting in this debate. I have done it over and over again and it gets nowhere, but if I am chauvinistic then so be it.

Apparently you are, Elizabeth, like me! (by the way my older daughter's name is Elizabeth)
When you disagree with green, you become the object of his ridicule. The more I hear from him, the more it is clear that him being my enemy is a plus mark on my chalkboard.

 

[phil112]

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

So, green, you don't think there is any difference in men and women in God's eyes?
You think/believe that men and women are biologically/physiologically/physically, and chemically the same? You believe that women are as agressive as men, and therefore as well equipped mentally to lead?

Why don't you lay out the differences, if there are any in your eyes, so we will know exactly how you come to the conclusion you have that men and women are equal?

 

[GreenNnice]

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

Originally Posted by GreenNnice

No, just didn't understand, phil . Still don't . No matter. The Lord leads.

I don't lie about you, phil, I simply speak the Truth, it's you who wants to think it's a lie

No you do lie, he isnt chauvinistic. Both Phil and I do not have this opinion because we feel like men are better. We have this view because it says so in scripture that this is how it is. It says women are not permitted to teach men. I don't think men are any better, neither does Phil. Its the concept of different roles in the church between brothers and sisters. You clearly don't understand that concept.

He is chauvinistic. He is someone who is so pompous--youself included, tuck --that they are willing to stand on their own authority to speak out against women being called by God, or, just 'used' if you won't permit that word, BY God, in any way He wants, including, yes, women pastoring men in a church that God allows them to pastor in Sad, really. Utterly, utterly, sad. All in the name of what you THINK is an absolute of Scripture, like 1 Tim. 2:12, which I 've now pointed out is not even what you say it is, and, 1 Tim. 3, which Paul states the obvious, NOT an absolute. A bishop IS to be the "husband of one wife."

The absolute is THIS: Isaiah 55 and 1 Cor. 2. These are the absolutes. The things of God, mysteriousness of God spoken for you by God, through prophet Isaiah in 55 and through Paul in 1 Cor. 2 .

Just stop. You guys are ridiculous in your thoughts, I'm now about to address more of this ridiculousness from dear brother, phil, sigh

So, green, you don't think there is any difference in men and women in God's eyes?
You think/believe that men and women are biologically/physiologically/physically, and chemically the same? You believe that women are as agressive as men, and therefore as well equipped mentally to lead?

Why don't you lay out the differences, if there are any in your eyes, so we will know exactly how you come to the conclusion you have that men and women are equal?

Of course, phil ,, women and men have differences, don't be ridiculous. But, God USES women in roles that are His ways and HIs thoughts for how to bring glory to Himself in ways that we do not understand nor will EVER undertand, perhaps, as i understand, highwayman understands, homewardbound understands, et al. But you don't undertand, and, that's fine, the Lord leads, as I've said a few times to you now, He, indeed, through His Spirit in us, teaches our spirit ALL Truth of our lives as we worship Him in Spirit and in Truth, HIs Spirit in OUR heart

 

[phil112]

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

So, green, you don't think there is any difference in men and women in God's eyes?
You think/believe that men and women are biologically/physiologically/physically, and chemically the same? You believe that women are as aggressive as men, and therefore as well equipped mentally to lead?

Why don't you lay out the differences, if there are any in your eyes, so we will know exactly how you come to the conclusion you have that men and women are equal?

Originally Posted by GreenNnice

I don't lie about you, phil, I simply speak the Truth, it's you who wants to think it's a lie................

You calling the truth a lie doesn't change it to a lie, you know. I believe in and understand men and women's role's as God has set forth for us. You reject it. I am a man, not of my own doing, and I take no pride in being a man as opposed to being a woman, which is something a male chauvinist certainly does. But hey, you keep telling lies if it makes you fel better about yourself.

Of course, phil ,, women and men have differences, don't be ridiculous...........................

Since you conveniently ignored my last question, I have reposted it - please be kind enough to answer it.

 

[blueorchidjd]

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

well, I guess I will be consistently discouraged .

 

[GreenNnice]

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

You calling the truth a lie doesn't change it to a lie, you know. I believe in and understand men and women's role's as God has set forth for us. You reject it. I am a man, not of my own doing, and I take no pride in being a man as opposed to being a woman, which is something a male chauvinist certainly does. But hey, you keep telling lies if it makes you fel better about yourself.

Since you conveniently ignored my last question, I have reposted it - please be kind enough to answer it.

phil, I said that 'men and women have differences,' that answered your question, did it not ? But , I added that God uses men and women DIFFERENT than what you or I can understand.

Now, you just keep on saying that's no proof, or, at least tuck continues to blindly see that Isaiah 55 and 1 Cor. 2 are of no consequence to a woman being able to pastor over men. Au Contraire. They are with NO ARGUMENT that PROVE that God can do things in His way and His mind at work thinking things, doing things, that our mere human minds, that are 'minds of Christ,' but are still NOT God's mind knowing, as 1 Cor. 2 clearly states and Isaiah 55 states too

You need to listen better, bro.

 

[GreenNnice]

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

well, I guess I will be consistently discouraged .

Yes, consistently discouraged not to speak out, or, teach over a man , or, a woman, who is saying God's Word to you. You are to be quiet ("she is to be quiet") and listen in "quietness and full submission," just as 1 Tim. 2:12 and also 11 verses state, bluestorchidJs