God doesn't seem to really care.

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Arcynaculr said:
I think it wise to understand a process and the end result of something someone wants to do to you... for example: a doctor, what if he told you he wants to do this crazy operation but it has not been proven to work... and he can't explain it to you or show proof of its success... do you just let this random (possibly crazy) doctor start this kind of operation on you... do you just trust him because you can't understand the complicated surgery process? I mean,hes a doctor so he must be trustable... um, no. I mean, hes a god so he must be trustable... um, no.
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do you understand everything that goes on in a computer, every facet of electrodynamics, logic circuits and programming language, every nuance of network flow and the physics of light transmission, or do you press the "on" button, open a browser and start clicking links?

do you understand everything about combustion engines and the mechanics of motion before you drive a car? no, you trust Honda and the testimony of other Honda owners, get in the driver's seat and go.

human experience is no stranger to the idea of a "black box." that same doctor prescribes you a pill and you, ignorant of biochemistry, completely unaware of the pharmaceutical companies production processes, go to the drug store, have your prescription filled and eat the pills twice daily with food until the bottle is empty.

what makes trusting God different?
 
posthuman said:
do you understand everything that goes on in a computer, every facet of electrodynamics, logic circuits and programming language, every nuance of network flow and the physics of light transmission, or do you press the "on" button, open a browser and start clicking links?

do you understand everything about combustion engines and the mechanics of motion before you drive a car? no, you trust Honda and the testimony of other Honda owners, get in the driver's seat and go.

human experience is no stranger to the idea of a "black box." that same doctor prescribes you a pill and you, ignorant of biochemistry, completely unaware of the pharmaceutical companies production processes, go to the drug store, have your prescription filled and eat the pills twice daily with food until the bottle is empty.

what makes trusting God different?
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well a computer, a car, and pills approved for public usage, have been proven to exist and to work even though i don't understand them. I would not trust a pill that was not proven to work. Even ones that are proven im skeptical about in the sense that, just cuz it worked for other people does not mean it will work for me... a select few individuals can get a severe reaction to meds or even food that most others have no problem with. You have no problem with your god... but i doubt he will work for me personally. especially if he can't or won't prove himself to even exist.
 
Arcynaculr said:
Well first of all: you didn't come to me, I came here. My choice. No one else's.

And that's a nice story but I can't relate cuz jesus/god has never made himself real to me.
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How do you know it was your choice? How do you know you were not led here by God to get answers to your questions? I know you are talking a lot about coincidence, do you think it is a coincidence that brought you to a site with Christians who are going to try to lead you to the Lord?

About not believing because He has never done anything for you or showed Himself to you. I can relate to that. I spent the first 40+ years of my life saying that God had never done anything for me, why should I believe in Him? First of all, just because you want something to happen in your life, it does not necessarily mean that it is going to happen immediately. Secondly, you have to mean it if you are going to have a relationship with God. He can see your heart and He knows what is really there. Go to Him in prayer, ask Him into your life. Yes, this takes faith and can be hard for some people to believe. But, the rewards are so glorious.

What will it hurt to really open your heart to God and ask Him into your life? That is what it took for me. When I finally dropped all of the barriers I had erected around my heart and seriously asked Him to come into my life, He did. I cannot explain the feeling of love, peace, and contentment that flooded my heart......not just my heart, my entire being. I knew then that He was real, that He loves me, and He will always be with me.

Please, stop fighting against Him. He loves you and cares about you. But, you also have to love and care about Him. Like any good relationship, both parties must be committed.

I will pray for you, God Bless.
 
He cares.

Alot.

Every precious drop of blood flowing down His side as He hung on that cross for YOU showed He cared then and still cares.

He's there, waiting.

When you are ready, walk His way and you find that you won't have far to walk. :)
 
so here is the bible:

a record of God having proven Himself to many people over thousands of years, in which it's recorded that this God doesn't like to repeat Himself and requires of men to put faith in Him completely before His ways can be understood, even if He never makes His ways comprehensible. in this book it's recorded that mankind is infected with a concept called "sin" so that in fact, yes, there is no hope for men beyond immediate pleasure and satisfaction during their short lives on earth, that are full of suffering as a result of this "sin" entering the world. a God here is presented who is completely holy, powerful and righteous, with all authority to judge and condemn, and who will have mercy on whom He will. the record here says that man is utterly depraved, base and without understanding or with any good intention in his heart, poisoned and corrupted by pride.
here in this book also it is written that God made a way - Jesus - through which mankind can be reconciled, that sin is forgiven, and that through faith in Him we can come not only to understanding, but be adopted as sons of God and become transformed in the fullness of time into something incomprehensibly glorious.

the book here says that without first trusting Him, we cannot hope to understand or to share in this life that He offers us.

so it's up to you. will you take the step He asks you to take, and trust the manner of His teaching, or will you reject Him, trust your own thinking and philosophy, which itself has no testimony other than what it says about itself, and is only corroborated by your own experience, which we admit is insufficient to understand or prove all things? red pill or blue pill? finite, corrupt, proven-to-be-fallible thinking of mankind? or the offer of the one that claims to be the author and finisher of all creation, proven by the record in this, the most influential and powerful collection of writings in the history of the world?

i cannot "prove" God to you. i won't even try. all i can tell you is that if you put your faith in Him, and keep it there, even when it doesn't make sense, but wait patiently on Him, for the time scales that He works in are not the timescales that we normally understand things, He is faithful to make these things comprehensible to you. this is my experience and is the testimony of millions of men and women before me.
 
posthuman said:
so here is the bible:

i cannot "prove" God to you. i won't even try. all i can tell you is that if you put your faith in Him, and keep it there, even when it doesn't make sense, but wait patiently on Him, for the time scales that He works in are not the timescales that we normally understand things, He is faithful to make these things comprehensible to you. this is my experience and is the testimony of millions of men and women before me.
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So wisely stated. :)
 
i pray your ideal's grow as your age increases.think about the devil's influances,they are very hard to swipe out of your way.
 
posthuman said:
so here is the bible:

a record of God having proven Himself to many people over thousands of years, in which it's recorded that this God doesn't like to repeat Himself and requires of men to put faith in Him completely before His ways can be understood, even if He never makes His ways comprehensible. in this book it's recorded that mankind is infected with a concept called "sin" so that in fact, yes, there is no hope for men beyond immediate pleasure and satisfaction during their short lives on earth, that are full of suffering as a result of this "sin" entering the world. a God here is presented who is completely holy, powerful and righteous, with all authority to judge and condemn, and who will have mercy on whom He will. the record here says that man is utterly depraved, base and without understanding or with any good intention in his heart, poisoned and corrupted by pride.
here in this book also it is written that God made a way - Jesus - through which mankind can be reconciled, that sin is forgiven, and that through faith in Him we can come not only to understanding, but be adopted as sons of God and become transformed in the fullness of time into something incomprehensibly glorious.

the book here says that without first trusting Him, we cannot hope to understand or to share in this life that He offers us.

so it's up to you. will you take the step He asks you to take, and trust the manner of His teaching, or will you reject Him, trust your own thinking and philosophy, which itself has no testimony other than what it says about itself, and is only corroborated by your own experience, which we admit is insufficient to understand or prove all things? red pill or blue pill? finite, corrupt, proven-to-be-fallible thinking of mankind? or the offer of the one that claims to be the author and finisher of all creation, proven by the record in this, the most influential and powerful collection of writings in the history of the world?

i cannot "prove" God to you. i won't even try. all i can tell you is that if you put your faith in Him, and keep it there, even when it doesn't make sense, but wait patiently on Him, for the time scales that He works in are not the timescales that we normally understand things, He is faithful to make these things comprehensible to you. this is my experience and is the testimony of millions of men and women before me.
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What if i can't trust without proof? Personal proof. and a time committment. Anyone on the street could come up to me and say i can trust them... and they could have a whole group with them that says i can and have records of reasons why i can. but that does not mean i should. the group could all be fooled and the records could be fake. Thats nothing special.

if this person wants me to trust them it will take a long time and many instances of personal proof. so maybe if god proves himself to me personally over and over for a couple decades... Now that's special and maybe i will finally begin to trust. but i suppose he does not care enough about me personally to do this. so why should i care about him personally?

Plus deeds do not prove intentions. and his intentions may be different for some people than most people...
 
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Arcynaculr said:
What if i can't trust without proof? Personal proof. and a time committment. Anyone on the street could come up to me and say i can trust them... and they could have a whole group with them that says i can and have records of reasons why i can. but that does not mean i should. the group could all be fooled and the records could be fake. Thats nothing special.

if this person wants me to trust them it will take a long time and many instances of personal proof. so maybe if god proves himself to me personally over and over for a couple decades... Now that's special and maybe i will finally begin to trust. but i suppose he does not care enough about me personally to do this. so why should i care about him personally?

Plus deeds do not prove intentions. and his intentions may be different for some people than most people...
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And that, dear sir, is where faith comes into play. Pure, unwavering, trust a.k.a. as faith.

Some gotta see to believe. Blessed are they that do not or cannot see and still believe. :)
 
abbiejean said:
And that, dear sir, is where faith comes into play. Pure, unwavering, trust a.k.a. as faith.

Some gotta see to believe. Blessed are they that do not or cannot see and still believe. :)
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I suppose the problem is simple then: neither god nor his intentions for me can be proven and i can't have faith.
 
Okay, 8 pages of responses to your posts written by various members. Didn't read them all. Just happened on this thread.

I shared from my heart, based on my experience.

Will say I sense anger and an argumentative spirit in your writings. Don't know the root of that, am guessing you've been really hurt or betrayed. Or perhaps God didn't give you what you wanted at the time you wanted it.

There are good people, wise people on this site.

I really don't have more to say other what what I have already shared. Do hope you are able to find your answers and in the end, find peace in and with the Lord. He does give it.
 
One common thing I find amongst people who don't believe in God is their looking for evidence or proof before they have faith. From experience faith produces evidence. There is no infallible proof or evidence that I know of outside of faith that I know of and these people have imprisoned themselves (including myself at one stage) by this mode of thinking, it is a stronghold that stops them from discovering God the way He intends. You may ask for a sign, he may give it and you may never recognise it as a sign from God. If you are to believe in the bible what it says about the Hebrews and their exile from Egypt, over 1 million people saw God manifest Himself as a cloud of fire, thunder and lightning and spoke which made them tremble to their core, so afraid the refused to accept His invitation to meet them all personally. God showing some miraculous "Look at me, I am GOD" sign will not cause you to hate the sin you currently love. I myself was unsure if God existed and I simply asked God to show Himself to me, I didn't do some fantastic ritual I just spoke it driving home from work one night, it didn't happen immediately but I soon discovered in the weeks ahead that Gods in the business of working from the inside of a person, that's why it's crucial to not harden our hearts against God.
But I wanted to ask, what were you hoping to get out of this thread?
 
abbiejean said:
Okay, 8 pages of responses to your posts written by various members. Didn't read them all. Just happened on this thread.

I shared from my heart, based on my experience.

Will say I sense anger and an argumentative spirit in your writings. Don't know the root of that, am guessing you've been really hurt or betrayed. Or perhaps God didn't give you what you wanted at the time you wanted it.

There are good people, wise people on this site.

I really don't have more to say other what what I have already shared. Do hope you are able to find your answers and in the end, find peace in and with the Lord. He does give it.
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Ok. well i will just say its not something as shallow as not getting what i want when i want.
 
breno785au said:
One common thing I find amongst people who don't believe in God is their looking for evidence or proof before they have faith. From experience faith produces evidence. There is no infallible proof or evidence that I know of outside of faith that I know of and these people have imprisoned themselves (including myself at one stage) by this mode of thinking, it is a stronghold that stops them from discovering God the way He intends. You may ask for a sign, he may give it and you may never recognise it as a sign from God. If you are to believe in the bible what it says about the Hebrews and their exile from Egypt, over 1 million people saw God manifest Himself as a cloud of fire, thunder and lightning and spoke which made them tremble to their core, so afraid the refused to accept His invitation to meet them all personally. God showing some miraculous "Look at me, I am GOD" sign will not cause you to hate the sin you currently love. I myself was unsure if God existed and I simply asked God to show Himself to me, I didn't do some fantastic ritual I just spoke it driving home from work one night, it didn't happen immediately but I soon discovered in the weeks ahead that Gods in the business of working from the inside of a person, that's why it's crucial to not harden our hearts against God.
But I wanted to ask, what were you hoping to get out of this thread?
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To be honest, im not even sure what im looking for. just thought maybe i would discover something useful by striking up a discussion. Can't hurt to try.
 
Arcynaculr said:
To be honest, im not even sure what im looking for. just thought maybe i would discover something useful by striking up a discussion. Can't hurt to try.
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Fair enough, well many times we're after something that we don't quite know what it is. I've said all I have to say in this thread. If you have any questions feel free to PM me.
 
You're just angry. The point is that God has His reasons and He doesn't owe you an explanation.

You should read about the parable of wheat and tares.
 
penknight said:
You're just angry. The point is that God has His reasons and He doesn't owe you an explanation.

You should read about the parable of wheat and tares.
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You dont know me so dont say what i "just" am.

He should be willing to explain some things if he really cares.
 
Arcynaculr said:
If god really cared about each and every one of us so much, then why did he create us in the first place when he knew that so many would not choose him and end up going to hell? I mean it's just evil to create something that you know will destroy itself... better to not create something at all than create something that will just destroy itself.

Of course if he created something, he would have to let it have free will but if the result of free will is self-destruction then he should not have created anything at all. Then there would be no people suffering in hell. There would never have been anything. All this could have been avoided, if god would have cared enough to restrain himself from creating.
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Where did you get the silly idea that people suffer forever in hell? You mustn't believe everything you hear. Read the Bible and find out for yourself. The Lord disciplines us when we sin and then forgives us. Read this:

[17] "Yet your people say, `The way of the Lord is not just'; when it is their own way that is not just.
[18] When the righteous turns from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, he shall die for it.
[19] And when the wicked turns from his wickedness, and does what is lawful and right, he shall live by it.
[20] Yet you say, `The way of the Lord is not just.' O house of Israel, I will judge each of you according to his ways." Ezekiel 33:17-20 RSV
 
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