At rest with God, and work hard to enter that rest and that rest is by and through belief, I got it, Thanks, at least this is what I hear and already am at rest, worked hard to enter it, and have Thanks again
How freewill salvation perverts God's Justice !
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At rest with God, and work hard to enter that rest and that rest is by and through belief, I got it, Thanks, at least this is what I hear and already am at rest, worked hard to enter it, and have Thanks again
Ummmmmm
you twist the scriptures...
everyone who believes:
believes means to do it....
you dont believe the Bible becaue you dont do it
remember the Sabbath day...
you twist the scriptures...
everyone who believes:
believes means to do it....
you dont believe the Bible becaue you dont do it
remember the Sabbath day...
John 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
John 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
Very simple
Sabbath is the day the bible says we should worship it is the ONLY day blessed
it is part of the commandments
if you believe it you would do it
those who do not
dont believe the bible
simple.
John 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
Very simple
Sabbath is the day the bible says we should worship it is the ONLY day blessed
it is part of the commandments
if you believe it you would do it
those who do not
dont believe the bible
simple.
I believe those who do not live by faith alone are also without yearning for God. I can see where they might think all is done but its not. Righteousness is not the only way but the first. The works thereafter must continue with not only 2 in mind but with many more.
No, only God can and that is done through the Savior Christ. Christ's death is our death and the doorway to new life in the Spirit 0f God. This is done by God having Mercy on whomever God will have Mercy, we have free will choice as to this to either belief God or not, receive the righteousness or go out and get our own.
We pervert the grace by going out and getting our own righteousness which no flesh can ever do perfectly, but come close and look so good in it, yet not perfect ever, it does confuse yet does not pervert God in any way and his way of salvation ever
For let every man be a liar but not God is truth forever
But you haven't included any ideals of justice, moral rights and wrongs nor punishment in this analogy. Thus it doesn't really address the issue in the context it is asked.
If I live in a small jungle setting, and lead a simple life; hunt, gather and feed my family and those of my tribe, and one day a missionary group comes and kills my mother and father, and tell me that if I don't convert to christianity that I will suffer death at their hands and burn in torment, then will I convert under the moral premises that God has seen fit to instill in my heart?
Certainly I won't. I'll die with my family.
And say the people in the village three miles away hear of this injustice and flee, and see civilizations, and become citizens of the law of that civilization, then they set up a group dedicated to opposing those who killed the families of the other tribe. They call it 'anti-christians unite'. What they are truly against is death and destruction, not necessarily christianity.
Yet, because of their experiences, they refuse to hear nor to accept the traditions, values nor beliefs of 'christians'. Are those people liable for hell, only for defending morality? They equate 'christianity' with immorality, death and destruction.
The same way, a young man goes to school in the modern day. A child, a child who has no preconceptions of religion. And he is taught in his school that the christians of the inquisition tortured people, and he is disgusted by it. Thus he decides there and then that the moralities of christianity are flawed and are evils. He makes a blanket assumption, yes. But he basis that decision on his own moral integrity; that it is wrong to kill, maim, torture and oppress.
Is he liable for hell then too?
If a man is born in Jewish Israel, a hundred years before the birth of Jesus, and he, as a child, sees the executions of those accused of unfounded accusations, and he is inwardly disgusted, by the morality which God has placed in his mind. He sees his family condone these killings and always he is against it. Then decides not to be 'jewish' and leaves home at 20, goes to India and encounters a group of Buddhists whom he sees feeding poor people and giving themselves up for the cause of others, and he joins this group because of their moralities, which sit well with his, and he dedicates his life to the cause of others, even though under a heading which is not 'jew', but rather 'buddhist', is he also liable for hell for that?
If a non-religious man walks into a church with guilt on his mind, and confesses to the pastor that he has sinned against his wife, and the pastor calms him and is fruitful and patient, and the next week he enters the same church and a man confesses his homosexuality, and the pastor and congregation condemn him with anger, then the man sees inconsistency in the morals of the church, and he walks from it. Is that man then also liable for hell, for following the morality which God has seen fit to bestow in him?
Similarly, if a man of compassion for the world, who has led his life by all the statutes of the law, and given of himself above and beyond it, sees one of these men come to him and say 'teacher, why is the world so hateful? Why do these Jews execute those accused of that which carries no evidence? And why does this pastor, who says that his eyes are open, have patience for one man and condemnation for another? And why have the men of the earlier years of that christian faith done such horrible things? And teacher, how is it that those whom those christians call heretics, 'the buddhists', have such compassion for others and yet those chrsitians do not see it? And how is it that those professing faith have killed this tribal man's family only because he was born in some other world away from all these faiths? Why is it so?'
Don't you think the teacher might have something greater to say than, 'it is so that all these people outside the consensus of faith can be shown the way to avoid eternal torment at the hands of their creator'?
There's more to it than buying a ticket and throwing it away.
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Hope this answers it for you, will attempt
Free will does not pervert God's justice it proves God's Mercy, that no one deserves. How can free will pervert God's justice? It can't we are left after the cross to either believe or not and have our consciousness's purged from sin, by belief, too simple or not. To not believe does not pervert God's justice that we do not deserve ever. To beleive manifests God's righteousness
Rather to believe is doing God justice, showing he is a just God, and does just love us as shown through Son before any of us here were ever born
So you are not there yet and yet back here on earth as an ambassador representing the love, joy. peace and righteousness found in the Holy Spirit of God?
Exactly what I said...the works are not done. Write but write so that your nakedness will remain unseen!!!!
Would this not be the works of God only that will never burn up as all flesh works will burn up, yet we ourselves will go through the fire as to be saved with or without rewards from God/ To God be all the glory Amen. God's grace in no way can be nullified, nor his justice ever changed
God will teach those to bring them to him. It is his will that all be saved. The ones who reject him on the second will be cast into the lake of fire. It never mentions that is the end.
Hi Homeward
I also forgot to say, that you assume that man has 'freewill'. if you do can you explain what you mean by free will?
I also forgot to say, that you assume that man has 'freewill'. if you do can you explain what you mean by free will?
Hi Jag,
When I mentioned the end I meant in the final judgement. Regarding God's will, he certainly takes no pleasure in anyone going to hell. God's descriptive will is that all come to him but he already knows that they won't.. it's his prescriptive will that actually saves those whom Jesus died for.
If you say that Jesus died for all men then where is the justice when they go to hell, for Jesus died for all their sins including that of disbelief and rejection of God.
you could say the above broaches upon limited atonement, but bear in mind that everyone has an atonement view that is limited in one degree to another..unless your a universalist.
I tore off my raggedy clothes and watched Jesus put on his righteous clothes over and on my nakedness, making me righteous and participating with Father in this righteousness, seeing how it is Father who is the only one righteous, even as Christ said this in Matt. 19
This happened because I beleive God at God's Mercy through Son Christ, which shows God's justice in Mercy seeing how we all were born after the similitude of Adam and Eve, and none of us here asked to be here in sin that we were born in.
So God's justice to us all is through Son's finished work at the cross for us to get and receive new life in the Spirit by choice
And nothing can pervert God's justice, belief or unbelief. Just as works or nor works can pervert this either
Man is the perverted misunderstanding of the Mercy, justice of God, not God. Let every man be a liar, but not ever God