How freewill salvation perverts God's Justice !
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For all will be at the judgment and all will recieve accordingly as to whether they beleived or not and no one will have an excuse for all will know on that day before that God is God with no excuse as to I did not know. Why because all will have made at that time a conscious choice as to whether they believe God or not.
God's justice, Mercy is served, come and eat
No men are going to hell after the second death. Jesus DIED, not Jesus is going to die for sins. Those who do not come to God in the second death through his teaching with be cast into the lake of fire. The first death are delievered up from "under the altars"(hell) because Jesus died.
(John 3:16)
'For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son,
that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.'
'Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.'
(Heb 13:8)
Praise God for His Faithfulness!
Thank you dcontroversial (forgive the rearrangement of text)
In Christ Jesus
Chris
'For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son,
that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.'
'Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.'
(Heb 13:8)
Praise God for His Faithfulness!
Thank you dcontroversial (forgive the rearrangement of text)
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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That is exactly what God gave from the beginning to Adam and Eve, and they chose that tree of death, that they were told would be, they would die if they ate from it. they ate from it and were thus born of the flesh still left with free choice to do right over wrong, knowing right and wrong, yet not born of the Spirit, man chooses selfishness over love as God loves all righteously. Free choice and many men believed God and did as believed righteously as God, by belief and this was counted unto them as righteousness from God that by belief they participated in such as Noah, Abraham and many others as shown in Hebrews 11
Then in the fullness of time Christ came to give us life in the Spirit of God what no man had yet received as to live in us and we are today given the right to eat off of the tree of life that was guarded by God after the fall and the kick out of the garden. Has today been given to all that beleive God as God calls all through the Holy Spirit of God that has been sent safter the ascension of Christ, that started at the day of Pentecost
John 16:9 of sin, because they believe not on me;
After Christ taking away of the sin, in Father's sight we are to be:
John 16:9 of sin, because they believe not on me;
· Hebrews 10:1
[ Christ’s Sacrifice Once for All ] The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship.
· Hebrews 10:2
Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins.
· Hebrews 10:10
And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
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By belief in the finished work of God and God alone, can anyone walk as Christ walked in 100% dependence on Father to do in them and through them what no flesh can ever do perfectly, to be clear on who is righteous God and God alone
So as the result of belief, one walks as Christ walks listening and doing as led as Nopah did, Abraham did, Joseph, Issaac and many others, by Faith and the works od God that followed showed their Faith, sealed their belief as proof in God being who God says God is
Thanks
Hi Homeward,
This is where it goes wrong, Don't forget Adam end Eve did not stay innocent, their nature changed...
and because of this all mankind.. no one is born in the state Adam and Eve where originally created ..(Very important)!!!
what is 'freewill'
[SUP]Here is a gate....
9 [/SUP]Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
[SUP]11 [/SUP]If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
[SUP]**21 [/SUP]Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that **doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[SUP]**22 [/SUP]Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name **have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[SUP]**23 [/SUP]And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
25 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
[SUP]**11 [/SUP]Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
[SUP]**12 [/SUP]But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
[SUP]**13 [/SUP]Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
How do you get in? That is the answer you need to find. When you pass through here your life will be changed forever.
9 [/SUP]Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
[SUP]11 [/SUP]If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
[SUP]**21 [/SUP]Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that **doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[SUP]**22 [/SUP]Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name **have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[SUP]**23 [/SUP]And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
25 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
[SUP]**11 [/SUP]Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
[SUP]**12 [/SUP]But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
[SUP]**13 [/SUP]Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
How do you get in? That is the answer you need to find. When you pass through here your life will be changed forever.
Hi Jag,
The gate is Christ indeed. Who are the sheep and how do they get in? Because His sheep know His voice.. did they by their free will hear the voice, or was it through the spirit that they heard...
The above are very good warnings for all people to listen too.
Little off topic here but....Definitely through the spirit, even 7, the seven spirits of God in revelation. Such are the same as were given since the beginning but put up as an image in the mind of man. The 7 candle sticks of the tabernacle that burn day and night to give light inside the Holy place. 7 that give light.
J
ji
Guest
Yes,Jesus did die for the remission of our sins.But we must do our part to make it clear that we gave our Heart to him.Apart from that a person must get rid of condemning themselves where God has forgiven them.And all that is based on, what i think i understood from what you meant.
S
Stinger
Guest
Hello svedbygrace,
I believe your analogy is not accurate. Here is, I suggest, a better way to think about the atonement. When the Children of Israel were in the desert, and Passover was instituted, each family killed its own lamb and took some of its blood and covered their doorway (and then remained under it). Jesus is the One Lamb killed for the sins of the world. His blood is available for all the world. A failure to apply that blood does not mean that it was not shed and made available. So Jesus did die for all sins, but all sins are not covered because His blood is not applied by those who refuse it. What part of this do you disagree with?
Hi Stinger,
The Passover is certainly important.. but so is the day of atonement.. for God's people. these where allshadows and pointers to the ultimate atonement..
But even the analogy you provide (which I believe to be flawed), does not address.. the issue of 'freewill and God's justice'.
The Passover is certainly important.. but so is the day of atonement.. for God's people. these where allshadows and pointers to the ultimate atonement..
But even the analogy you provide (which I believe to be flawed), does not address.. the issue of 'freewill and God's justice'.
S
Stinger
Guest
So what is not addressed? Isn't Jesus the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world? (A simple 'yes' or 'no' will do.)
yes in deed as well as the fact that (he became sin for us) that we may stand in his righteousness and by his faith.
Good point as well Phil.
S
Stinger
Guest
Yes..
Is it your freewill that saves you? a simple yes or no will suffice ?
Yours is an ill-formed question, for the salvation of an individual is not due solely to the action of God nor the individual. God provides a way out, and the individual has the choice to take it (or not), so the freewill of an individual is a part (but only a part) of what saves them. So my answer is a partial 'yes', but, yes, ultimately, mine is the deciding factor, since God has already decided to offer me salvation through His Son, so on His part, his offer of salvation is finished in some sense, on my part, the acceptance is not. Sorry I could not give a simple 'yes' or 'no' answer, but your question is ill-formed which has no simple yes/no answer.
S
Stinger
Guest
Not totally. God has decided to give me the opportunity to decide. Do you have issue with God's decision to give me a decision?