Is the Holy Spirit Too Weird for American Christianity?

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Galatians2-20

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Mar 17, 2013
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Is the Holy Spirit Too Weird for American Christianity?
written by Jeff Kennedy

If you’re a Christian and you have a pulse, then you’ve heard about the latest dustup between conservative Christianity and the modern charismatic movement. In his most recent book, Strange Fire, noted cessationist John MacArthur accuses charismatics of everything from doctrinal heresy to just being plain weird. He often cites the worst cases and passes them off as the normative charismatic experience.

To be fair, I do think some of the excesses and abuses in the book warrant correction today. I must also say that I agree with some of what MacArthur and his surrogates teach about the Holy Spirit.

For instance, it’s true that God wants our worship to be doctrinally sound (1 Tim. 1:3), intelligible (1 Cor. 14:19) and orderly (1 Cor. 14:27). We need to be reminded that the Spirit brings conviction of sin (John 16:8) and transforms our character (1 Cor. 13:1-7). MacArthur’s emphases on these vital aspects of the Spirit aren’t wrong.

But as I read, I wondered, “How is it that such a biblically educated believer can so blatantly and effortlessly screen out the supernatural content of Scripture?”

At worst, MacArthur just morphs Christianity into a mere doctrinal system—a checklist of sacred beliefs. At best, he portrays the Spirit as that silent member of the Trinity who is busy with the discreet work of inner transformation.

He doesn’t speak to us. He doesn’t lead us. And He has no interest in setting hearts, hands and lips ablaze with His presence. At least, not today anyway.

The Legacy of Radical Cessationism

Here’s the problem with all this. More than a century of mere doctrinal inculcation has left us with a generation of believers who don’t even believe in the doctrine of the Spirit anymore. It’s counterintuitive, I know. But just consider this:


These statistics are alarming when one considers the mass exodus of 18- to 34-year-olds from the church.

In effect, we have barred would-be worshippers from the fullness of the Spirit’s experience while insisting that they learn the Apostles’ Creed. But the Holy Spirit is not merely a doctrine we learn about. He’s not a dove on a stained-glass window. And he’s not the “silent member” of the Godhead. He is God himself—the God who has “invaded our lives with transforming presence,” as Craig Keener puts it.

A diminished view of the Spirit’s work is dangerous for several reasons. First, minimizing the Spirit compromises biblical truth. The Spirit is instrumental in our personal rebirth and renewal (John 3:3, 5-8). He fills us as we gather and worship (Eph. 5:19). He also empowers us to meet our obligations through Spirit gifts (Rom. 12; 1 Cor. 12). The same power of the Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead is available to the believer (Eph. 1:19-20). The Christian faith is a lot of things, but it is nothing without the Spirit. We may engrave His name in the bedrock of our historic creeds, but without His presence, we are not of Christ at all.

Second, minimizing the Spirit will jettison our mandate. Christianity is not a nice family religion. It is a living, active and missional enterprise. If we make the mistake of treating the Spirit as nothing more than a theological abstraction, an amorphous concept or the “silent partner” of the Trinity, we will utterly fail to disciple the nations and the next generation. This is why Jesus told the disciples to wait in Jerusalem for the promise—God’s empowering presence (Acts 1:4–8). Take the Holy Spirit away from the church and all we’re left with is a grace-deficient, family-based cult. Christianity doesn’t work when the Spirit is ignored, marginalized or sidelined in favor of our Spirit-less ingenuity.

We’re losing our culture to darkness. And Christianity cannot be seen as a credible option in a culture where it is reduced to a mere historic curiosity, devoid of wind and fire—absent the Spirit of life.

Jeff Kennedy is executive pastor of adult ministries and discipleship at Eastpoint, a large and thriving church in the Pacific Northwest. He also serves as an adjunct professor of religion at Liberty University Online. When he is not teaching, writing, training leaders or grading papers, he is spending time with his wife and four happy children. He is also author of Father, Son and the Other One. You can visit him at jeffkennedy.tv.
 
Is the Holy Spirit Too Weird for American Christianity?
written by Jeff Kennedy

If you’re a Christian and you have a pulse, then you’ve heard about the latest dustup between conservative Christianity and the modern charismatic movement. In his most recent book, Strange Fire, noted cessationist John MacArthur accuses charismatics of everything from doctrinal heresy to just being plain weird. He often cites the worst cases and passes them off as the normative charismatic experience.

To be fair, I do think some of the excesses and abuses in the book warrant correction today. I must also say that I agree with some of what MacArthur and his surrogates teach about the Holy Spirit.

For instance, it’s true that God wants our worship to be doctrinally sound (1 Tim. 1:3), intelligible (1 Cor. 14:19) and orderly (1 Cor. 14:27). We need to be reminded that the Spirit brings conviction of sin (John 16:8) and transforms our character (1 Cor. 13:1-7). MacArthur’s emphases on these vital aspects of the Spirit aren’t wrong.

But as I read, I wondered, “How is it that such a biblically educated believer can so blatantly and effortlessly screen out the supernatural content of Scripture?”

At worst, MacArthur just morphs Christianity into a mere doctrinal system—a checklist of sacred beliefs. At best, he portrays the Spirit as that silent member of the Trinity who is busy with the discreet work of inner transformation.

He doesn’t speak to us. He doesn’t lead us. And He has no interest in setting hearts, hands and lips ablaze with His presence. At least, not today anyway.

The Legacy of Radical Cessationism

Here’s the problem with all this. More than a century of mere doctrinal inculcation has left us with a generation of believers who don’t even believe in the doctrine of the Spirit anymore. It’s counterintuitive, I know. But just consider this:


These statistics are alarming when one considers the mass exodus of 18- to 34-year-olds from the church.

In effect, we have barred would-be worshippers from the fullness of the Spirit’s experience while insisting that they learn the Apostles’ Creed. But the Holy Spirit is not merely a doctrine we learn about. He’s not a dove on a stained-glass window. And he’s not the “silent member” of the Godhead. He is God himself—the God who has “invaded our lives with transforming presence,” as Craig Keener puts it.

A diminished view of the Spirit’s work is dangerous for several reasons. First, minimizing the Spirit compromises biblical truth. The Spirit is instrumental in our personal rebirth and renewal (John 3:3, 5-8). He fills us as we gather and worship (Eph. 5:19). He also empowers us to meet our obligations through Spirit gifts (Rom. 12; 1 Cor. 12). The same power of the Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead is available to the believer (Eph. 1:19-20). The Christian faith is a lot of things, but it is nothing without the Spirit. We may engrave His name in the bedrock of our historic creeds, but without His presence, we are not of Christ at all.

Second, minimizing the Spirit will jettison our mandate. Christianity is not a nice family religion. It is a living, active and missional enterprise. If we make the mistake of treating the Spirit as nothing more than a theological abstraction, an amorphous concept or the “silent partner” of the Trinity, we will utterly fail to disciple the nations and the next generation. This is why Jesus told the disciples to wait in Jerusalem for the promise—God’s empowering presence (Acts 1:4–8). Take the Holy Spirit away from the church and all we’re left with is a grace-deficient, family-based cult. Christianity doesn’t work when the Spirit is ignored, marginalized or sidelined in favor of our Spirit-less ingenuity.

We’re losing our culture to darkness. And Christianity cannot be seen as a credible option in a culture where it is reduced to a mere historic curiosity, devoid of wind and fire—absent the Spirit of life.

Jeff Kennedy is executive pastor of adult ministries and discipleship at Eastpoint, a large and thriving church in the Pacific Northwest. He also serves as an adjunct professor of religion at Liberty University Online. When he is not teaching, writing, training leaders or grading papers, he is spending time with his wife and four happy children. He is also author of Father, Son and the Other One. You can visit him at jeffkennedy.tv.


Why can't we just live like Jesus did - in the power of the Holy Spirit - in submission to the Father
 
You know my bible teaches that the Holy Spirit points to Jesus, speaks of Jesus, testifies of Jesus and NOT ITSELF. Religions that make more to do about the Holy Spirit than Jesus are contrary to the truth.

Just a thought to ponder...
 
I dont really understand the title, because The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit. and Christ being one in the same, Is Christ's Spirit also. They are all one. If some one has a problem with the Holy Spirit, then they have a terrible problem. And its not one a Christian would hope to bring on themselves by listening to non-sense.

Why are we so caught up with what men are doing ? We need to be focused on study of God's words. And what He says. Not what man's hang ups are all about . The is why ignorance of God's words spread. Too much of mans words, and non of God's are being taught how God wants it to be taught.
 
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You know my bible teaches that the Holy Spirit points to Jesus, speaks of Jesus, testifies of Jesus and NOT ITSELF. Religions that make more to do about the Holy Spirit than Jesus are contrary to the truth.

Just a thought to ponder...

Romans 14:17
For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

2 Cor 13:14
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

Jude 1:20
But you, beloved, building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit,

Titus 3:5
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

The Trinity is what brought salvation, worked salvation and is what is working salvation

The Father ordained it, the Son did the work, and the Holy Spirit disseminates it to the followers

I don't think it is wise to treat the Holy Spirit as nothing, He is deity - the Trinity rejoices in each other in oneness. The Holy Spirit gives what is Jesus' to the believer - Jesus said it would be better that He goes and sends the Helper - Holy Spirit to us to be with us and in us.

If we didn't have the Holy Spirit, we wouldn't have salvation, just as if we didn't have the Father, or Jesus
 
You know my bible teaches that the Holy Spirit points to Jesus, speaks of Jesus, testifies of Jesus and NOT ITSELF. Religions that make more to do about the Holy Spirit than Jesus are contrary to the truth.

Just a thought to ponder...

Yes, the Holy Spirit does in deed point toward Christ, however, seeing as most Christians have no idea how to live like Christ, it's obvious that they do not understand how the Holy Spirit points toward Christ.
 
Seems to me Kennedy is the one limiting the Holy Spirit with statements like

''First, minimizing the Spirit compromises biblical truth. ''

and

''Take the Holy Spirit away from the church and all we’re left with is a grace-deficient, family-based cult. ''

I mean it all sounds as if the poor Holy Spirit can be fashioned and manipulated by man.
 
Have you noticed that our God is a God of balance, not of extremes. Humans have always had a hard time with this. Those who know the Holy Spirit as it personally leads them get carried away with the wonder of it and forget to check the leading with the word. Those who learn and accept the wonder of grace that isn't dependent on works go on and on teaching people about that, forgetting that the work of living for Christ keeps grace alive within us.

It is the same with the Holy Spirit. The extremes either way are not of God.
 
When we see a person that's always cheerful and always being in a good nature towards others, we says that this person has a good spirit in them and which this is the fruit of their labors. Only a person being in a good spirit produces good; and if a person being being in a bad mood can only produces bad. These are the things that God judges us by what we produces. God want us to show mercy which this act prevent us from producing bad fruits and destroy the ones that we has already created. But by doing this, you'll yield up good instead. It is written that God has created all things and even the bad; like when the people were doing wrong, an evil spirit has came from the Lord and tormented the people, but His love for them has stopped the evil spirit from tormenting them, and which this shows that God is the one who causes all things to come to life by a thought, which is showing us how powerful He is. And since we are His children we are able to do this as well, but God doesn't want us to curse our neighbors because all it does is produces bad spirits. That is why the people in those times were so cinched on others by giving them good blessing, which they has known about it. As time went by, people has forgotten about it, and didn't care for much for anybodies blessings.

Genesis 12:3
I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.”

Genesis 9:25
he said, “Cursed be Canaan! The lowest of slaves will he be to his brothers.”

Genesis 27:34
When Esau heard his father’s words, he burst out with a loud and bitter cry and said to his father, “Bless me—me too, my father!”

2 Samuel 24:16
When the angel stretched out his hand to destroy Jerusalem, the Lord relented concerning the disaster and said to the angel who was afflicting the people, “Enough! Withdraw your hand.” The angel of the Lord was then at the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite.

1 Samuel 16:14
Now the Spirit of the Lord had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord tormented him.

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things.


The evil eye is a malevolent look that many cultures believe able to cause injury or misfortune for the person at whom it is directed for reasons of envy or dislike. Talismans created to protect against the evil eye are also frequently called "evil eyes."[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][2][/SUP] The term also refers to the power attributed to certain persons of inflicting injury or bad luck by such an envious or ill-wishing look. The evil eye is usually given to others who remain unaware.[SUP][3][/SUP]
The "evil eye" is also known in Arabic as ʿayn al-ḥasūd (عين الحسود‎), in Hebrew as ʿáyin hā-ráʿ (עַיִן הָרַע‎), in Kurdish çaw e zar (eye of evil/sickness), in Persian as chashm zakhm (چشم زخم eye-caused injury) or chashm e bad (bad eye), in Turkish as Nazar (nazar is from Arabic نَظَر Nadhar which means eye vision or eyesight), similarly in Urdu/Hindi/Punjabi the word Nazar or Boori Nazar (bad eye/look) is used, in Amharic buda, in Afghan Pashto cheshim mora, and also "Nazar", in Greek as to máti (το μάτι), in Spanish asmal de ojo,[SUP][4][/SUP] in Italian as malocchio, in Portuguese mau-olhado ("act of giving an evil/sick look"), in Swedish as "ge onda ögat"(to give an evil look), and in Hawaiian it is known as "stink eye"[SUP][5][/SUP] or maka pilau meaning "rotten eyes".[SUP][6][/SUP]
The idea expressed by the term causes many cultures to pursue protective measures against it. The concept and its significance vary widely among different cultures, primarily the Middle East. The idea appears several times in translations of the Old Testament.
Evil eye - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Evil Eye

How Clear is the bible about " EVIL EYE" - Catholic Answers Forums


This blessing is an adaptation of a beannacht, an ancient Hebrew form of blessing used to communicate the power of the Divine within families and later within believing communities. This beannacht is dedicated to married couples. http://www.foryourmarriage.org/a-marriage-blessing/


Genesis 29:30
Jacob made love to Rachel also, and his love for Rachel was greater than his love for Leah. And he worked for Laban another seven years.
 
Romans 14:17
For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

2 Cor 13:14
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

Jude 1:20
But you, beloved, building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit,

Titus 3:5
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

The Trinity is what brought salvation, worked salvation and is what is working salvation

The Father ordained it, the Son did the work, and the Holy Spirit disseminates it to the followers

I don't think it is wise to treat the Holy Spirit as nothing, He is deity - the Trinity rejoices in each other in oneness. The Holy Spirit gives what is Jesus' to the believer - Jesus said it would be better that He goes and sends the Helper - Holy Spirit to us to be with us and in us.

If we didn't have the Holy Spirit, we wouldn't have salvation, just as if we didn't have the Father, or Jesus

I agree...and am not down playing the Holy Spirit, but simply stating the obvious...most charismatic religions will speak and or preach of the Holy Spirit with no regard for Jesus whatsoever at all while doing things in the name of the H.S. that have nothing at all to do with Jesus.

John 15:26...But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me. ;)
 
That is totally unbiblical all the way!

Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.


One person I met says religion is alright as long as it doesnt interfere with your life!

How sad, for the enemy to decieve people

taking holy spirit to extremes is Bad?
only the enemy would ever teach that.
for someone to call themselves a christian have have that grand delusion

You need to read Foxs book of martyrs, for the truth on how religion would be practiced!
 
Thats why 99 percent of christians swill be lost, they believe this greatest of errors...

here is what Jesus wants
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.

iLuke 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Luke 10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
Luke 10:29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?

no

You have to take holy spirit ALL THE WAY or you are not going....
 
Galatians2-20, I get it. Cessationists dispute the current work of the Spirit & use the modern charismatic movement as evidence.

What most of the church doesn't know, including these 2 groups, is that they're both on the same side of the coin against the Holy Spirit's ministry & work.

2 Timothy 3:5 (NASB) [SUP]5 [/SUP]holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these.
2 Timothy 3:5 (NLT) [SUP]5 [/SUP]They will act religious, but they will reject the power that could make them godly. Stay away from people like that!

*Cessationists deny the power of the Holy Spirit's gifts, believing the completion of the canon replaces it. They claim Christ's holiness without having to prove it with supernatural ability. They claim they can't do it.

*Modern charismatics denys the true power by changing the ministry of the Spirit into head banging, gold dust falling, holy laughter, & praise&worship into a entertaining concert. Basically a 3 ring circus.

It's not that the Holy Spirit is too weird for American Christianity..... It's the other way around.
 
If you have the holy spirit
you live all the bible
you speak all the Bible
you desire all the bible
you love all the bible
you search all the bible
and the spirit brings all the bible to your mind

Any other spirit is another spirit.
And american religions have lots of other spirits...


1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.


Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony:
if they speak not according to this word,
it is because there is no light in them.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

1 Th 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
 
American Christianity has no problem with the Holy Spirit...but we would appreciate if the babbling in tongues, being slain in the spirit, and random seizure having nutjobs please distance yourself from american Christianity.

This is not okay:
[video=youtube;yowsa7d_MLY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yowsa7d_MLY[/video]
 
American Christianity has no problem with the Holy Spirit...but we would appreciate if the babbling in tongues, being slain in the spirit, and random seizure having nutjobs please distance yourself from american Christianity.

Wow! Didn't see anybody do a backflip. I guess the video wasn't long enough.
 
American Christianity has no problem with the Holy Spirit...but we would appreciate if the babbling in tongues, being slain in the spirit, and random seizure having nutjobs please distance yourself from american Christianity.

This is not okay:
[video=youtube;yowsa7d_MLY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yowsa7d_MLY[/video]

IF i wasn't saved - i would go to these churches and knock people out
and say - but it's the Holy Punch to the face series
 
When we see a person that's always cheerful and always being in a good nature towards others, we says that this person has a good spirit in them and which this is the fruit of their labors. Only a person being in a good spirit produces good; and if a person being being in a bad mood can only produces bad. These are the things that God judges us by what we produces. God want us to show mercy which this act prevent us from producing bad fruits and destroy the ones that we has already created. But by doing this, you'll yield up good instead. It is written that God has created all things and even the bad; like when the people were doing wrong, an evil spirit has came from the Lord and tormented the people, but His love for them has stopped the evil spirit from tormenting them, and which this shows that God is the one who causes all things to come to life by a thought, which is showing us how powerful He is. And since we are His children we are able to do this as well, but God doesn't want us to curse our neighbors because all it does is produces bad spirits. That is why the people in those times were so cinched on others by giving them good blessing, which they has known about it. As time went by, people has forgotten about it, and didn't care for much for anybodies blessings.

Genesis 12:3
I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.”

Genesis 9:25
he said, “Cursed be Canaan! The lowest of slaves will he be to his brothers.”

Genesis 27:34
When Esau heard his father’s words, he burst out with a loud and bitter cry and said to his father, “Bless me—me too, my father!”

2 Samuel 24:16
When the angel stretched out his hand to destroy Jerusalem, the Lord relented concerning the disaster and said to the angel who was afflicting the people, “Enough! Withdraw your hand.” The angel of the Lord was then at the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite.

1 Samuel 16:14
Now the Spirit of the Lord had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord tormented him.

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things.


The evil eye is a malevolent look that many cultures believe able to cause injury or misfortune for the person at whom it is directed for reasons of envy or dislike. Talismans created to protect against the evil eye are also frequently called "evil eyes."[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][2][/SUP] The term also refers to the power attributed to certain persons of inflicting injury or bad luck by such an envious or ill-wishing look. The evil eye is usually given to others who remain unaware.[SUP][3][/SUP]
The "evil eye" is also known in Arabic as ʿayn al-ḥasūd (عين الحسود‎), in Hebrew as ʿáyin hā-ráʿ (עַיִן הָרַע‎), in Kurdish çaw e zar (eye of evil/sickness), in Persian as chashm zakhm (چشم زخم eye-caused injury) or chashm e bad (bad eye), in Turkish as Nazar (nazar is from Arabic نَظَر Nadhar which means eye vision or eyesight), similarly in Urdu/Hindi/Punjabi the word Nazar or Boori Nazar (bad eye/look) is used, in Amharic buda, in Afghan Pashto cheshim mora, and also "Nazar", in Greek as to máti (το μάτι), in Spanish asmal de ojo,[SUP][4][/SUP] in Italian as malocchio, in Portuguese mau-olhado ("act of giving an evil/sick look"), in Swedish as "ge onda ögat"(to give an evil look), and in Hawaiian it is known as "stink eye"[SUP][5][/SUP] or maka pilau meaning "rotten eyes".[SUP][6][/SUP]
The idea expressed by the term causes many cultures to pursue protective measures against it. The concept and its significance vary widely among different cultures, primarily the Middle East. The idea appears several times in translations of the Old Testament.
Evil eye - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Evil Eye

How Clear is the bible about " EVIL EYE" - Catholic Answers Forums


This blessing is an adaptation of a beannacht, an ancient Hebrew form of blessing used to communicate the power of the Divine within families and later within believing communities. This beannacht is dedicated to married couples. http://www.foryourmarriage.org/a-marriage-blessing/


Genesis 29:30
Jacob made love to Rachel also, and his love for Rachel was greater than his love for Leah. And he worked for Laban another seven years.


huh? with 10 characters so it can post