Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship?

[KSublett]

But, the Bible DOES forbid in dozens of passages: If you look for a passage that says "thou shalt not make instrumental noise when I, Jesus, come to be your teacher" that might be legalism.

I assert that the bible is very explicit over and over and over from Genesis to Revelation and all historical scholars of note. Words, you know: you need to see how words like SPORT and play and mock are defined in the text Paul and little children knew from attending the Greek theater.

 

[gzusfrk]

Ironically, history shows by all that I can find that the musical instrument was introduced in the catholic church in the year 666 A. D.

 

[watcher2013]

There are many probelms in going back to the OT law to find justification for a practice. The entire Galatain epistle is about Paul condemning the Galtians for leaving Chrit's NT and returning to that OT law thinking they could be jsutified by keeping circumcision. FOr leeaving the NT and returning to the OT Paul told themthey had leftthe gospelunto a false gospel, they had quit obeying the truth, they were trying to make Christ's death in vain, theyhad fallen from grace. This would also be true of me for leaving Chris't's NT to return to the OT to justify using IM.

Paul also told them in Gal 5:3 "I testify again to every man that receiveth circumcision, that he is a debtor to do the whole law"


THe point being there is no cherry-picking out of a law what you like and disregarding the rest of the law you do not like. So if you return to the OT for justification to use IM,then you have an obligation to contend for the WHOLE law.

you can find circumcision under the law...you can find eating pig as abomination under the law...and eating cow is not...

am I cherry picking...
if eating cow's meat was ok then...is it ok to eat cow's meat today?
If using instruments was ok then...is it ok to use it today?

there was consequences in eating pig under the law..but there was none in using instruments in praising God.

Again, if you are ready to literlize harps in Rev 14:1,2 then are you ready to literalize only 144,000 being in heaven?

Furthermore, even if the harps were literal, physical harps that does not authorize the use of them here on earth within the church. Mt 22:30 there is no marriage or giving in marriage in heaven. Does this sanction that no marriage should take place in the church today here on earth? No. So harps in heaven would not sanction their use here on earth in the church

You seems to be missing a lot of things...
Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their forehead
Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
Do these verses place those who are sealed in earth?


and by the way Mat 22:30...talks "in the resurrection"...(future)

Huh??? To be clear, you are actually saying peanuts and o.j. can be used for the Lord's Supper and that would be acceptable with God?

Again...the basic requirements during the Lord supper is bread and wine...

It is you who suggested peanut and orange juice...and I said if you would like to add them it is up to you...(it is not a sin)

you can eat the bread and drink the cup....and that is your Lord supper...
But if you still hungry and you have peanut and orange Juice/grape juice in your bag...you can eat and drink it after.

...and looking back the practice of meal on the night of Passover...they also have meat (lamb)...

So you are arguing Noah could have built the ark out of oak and still done as God said?

God did not specify the tool hammer, but using a hammer did not add to or change God's instructions in how the ark was to be built but a hammer would be an aid in carrying out that command to build an ark.

What I am trying to say is... we are not sure what Noah did...we have limited information.

about the hammer...The same argument is used as to God did not specify instruments in the verses you are defending regarding singing and praising with hymns and psalms.. But it did not change the fact command to sing.

Question: In the great commisson, Mt 28:19,20, Jesus commanded His disciples to "go". Yet in this context, nowhere did Jesus authorize a certain mode of transportation/communication. So what mode of transportation/communication could the disciples use since none was specifically authorized?

Of course they used whatever available resources to them....(they even sold their properties (acts) to provide for the mission.)


The same way can be applied to the praising and singing...increase in knowledge provide transport to make it quicker and easy...praising and singing now have electric tools...

Question: Let us just say (theoretically) that Stephen hawking become a Christian and want to praise/sing to God... Would your church allow him to sing or Not?

Do you use microphone? amplifier..speaker.?

 

[notuptome]

Grace alone will not save. Eph 2:8 - it takes a combination of both God's grace and man's faith to be saved. Grace without man's conditional faith does not save.

Wrong answer. Faith comes by hearing and hearing the word of God. Man has no faith by which he can be saved apart from Gods word. Eph 2:8-10.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[ChristianGirlLivingLife]

God saves us with His salvation! He does not want us to feel captive and guilty of our sins. I was a member of the Church of Christ and have recently turned away from it because their teachings are wrong, because they believe that they are the one true Church and feel that the only way from being saved is by being a disciple and "earning" your way to Him. But what about forgiveness? What about God's salvation? He is here to save us and to make us new beings in His creation. God is here to save us, not to make us feel guilty of the past.

 

[Nautilus]

cults are funny

 

[breno785au]

Another thread about this false teaching. Why are we bothering to feed this thread?

 

[KohenMatt]

Another thread about this false teaching. Why are we bothering to feed this thread?

Because we're bored.

Actually, I've never been involved in one, so I'm having fun with it.

 

[parablepete]

God saves us with His salvation! He does not want us to feel captive and guilty of our sins. I was a member of the Church of Christ and have recently turned away from it because their teachings are wrong, because they believe that they are the one true Church and feel that the only way from being saved is by being a disciple and "earning" your way to Him. But what about forgiveness? What about God's salvation? He is here to save us and to make us new beings in His creation. God is here to save us, not to make us feel guilty of the past.

CGLL....You are 17 years old. Please consider what the bible teaches. Also pay close attention to what Sea Bass says, he is brilliant and has a very good mind. He's kind, considerate, words things right, easy to understand, Please note when PPL don't have a good come back they will give a snippy answer. It makes me sad to think you were led astray.

 

[parablepete]

Another thread about this false teaching. Why are we bothering to feed this thread?

Unless we agree with what you say we are False? Sounds like Judging??? I have always wanted to say that....LoL I know better.

 

[Kerry]

Music and singing is the highest form of praise and worship. Don't think so, the longest book in the bible is Psalms

 

[Elizabeth619]

God saves us with His salvation! He does not want us to feel captive and guilty of our sins. I was a member of the Church of Christ and have recently turned away from it because their teachings are wrong, because they believe that they are the one true Church and feel that the only way from being saved is by being a disciple and "earning" your way to Him. But what about forgiveness? What about God's salvation? He is here to save us and to make us new beings in His creation. God is here to save us, not to make us feel guilty of the past.

And judging a whole group without knowing ones individual devotion and understanding is wrong as well. Theres corrupt teachings all over the Christian community. That doesn't mean all Christians believe a corrupt way as I have said over and over again.
Also, ones understanding or misunderstanding of scripture should not reflect on others. Just because a particualr lady told you some things that aren't entirely correct doesn't give anyone the right to bash another who may actually properly understand the doctrine, but it does open the door to guide them in the proper way toward the truth.
Generalizing a whole group based on a few individuals is really not a good idea.

 

[Elizabeth619]

They didn't need me to think that, they already thought that, and far as what I do, I do to learn myself why this deal with instruments is happening and I personally felt that I hadn't enough info on this and that's why I am asking more questions on the subject. What info I given is truth and if you don't know that then maybe you need to study some more. You say you are insulted by my accusations, I am deeply sadden by your lack of defense for your heavenly father in spreading THE TRUTH and that's exactly what I have been doing. I have no respect for someone like you who attempt to tell others what to say and for that reason I would appreciate not commenting to me in the future.

Titus 3:2

Eph 4:32

Proverbs 15:1

 

[Nautilus]

And judging a whole group without knowing ones individual devotion and understanding is wrong as well. Theres corrupt teachings all over the Christian community. That doesn't mean all Christians believe a corrupt way as I have said over and over again.
Also, ones understanding or misunderstanding of scripture should not reflect on others. Just because a particualr lady told you some things that aren't entirely correct doesn't give anyone the right to bash another who may actually properly understand the doctrine, but it does open the door to guide them in the proper way toward the truth.
Generalizing a whole group based on a few individuals is really not a good idea.

That may be true, though you seem to be in the minority of CoCer's that dont hold these insane instruments send you to hell ideas. So you have to put up with a little guilt by association.

 

[Angela53510]

Let me repeat a bit of what I wrote in post #47, page 3.

THE WORD PSALMOIS, MEANS PLAY WITH INSTRUMENTS IN THE GREEK!

"addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart," Eph. 5:19

According to The New Linguistic and Exegetical Key to the Greek New Testament,** the word for singing, is in fact psalmois (ψαλμοῖς) which specifically means:

verb: primarily the plucking of the strings,
noun: used of sacred songs chanted to the accompaniment of instrumental music.

"[SUP]16 [/SUP]Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God." Col. 3:16

Besides, the command in Col 3:16 are to "let the word of Christ dwell richly in you." The verb "dwell" is enoikeo (ἐνοικείτω) is in the Present Imperative Active 3rd person sing. That means the command is that the Word of God is commanded to dwell, live in, or take up one's home in us. But the other verbs, like teaching (διδάσκοντες), admonishing (διδάσκοντες), are present active participles, NOT in the command tense. As for the word "singing" which is a participle in English, it does not appear in the Greek at all! Instead, only the word psalmois (ψαλμοῖς,) once again appears and as we have already seen in Eph. 5:19, this word has the idea of a song WITH musical accompaniment!!!

ONE MORE TIME!

THE WORD PSALMOIS, MEANS PLAY WITH INSTRUMENTS IN THE GREEK!

This is not an argument about theology. The GREEK SETTLES it! If you choose to worship without instruments, I have no problem. If you come on here and tell me I am going to hell because I not only worship with instruments, but play instruments in the worship band in the church I attend, I am going to tell you to go back, research the truth.

Do not listen to your denomination because it is WRONG.....

THE WORD PSALMOIS, MEANS PLAY WITH INSTRUMENTS IN THE GREEK!

And Shava, you can quote all the sources in the world you want to justify your beliefs, it still doesn't change the meaning of the word that Paul purposely used.

As far as a cult, Elizabeth goes to your denomination, and seems quite fine with making a personal choice. Her church does not appear to be a cult. The reason YOU personally are in a cult, is because you force others to believe your warped misinterpretation of the Bible, on an issue which is not essential one with regards to salvation, but you personally have made it one!

Salvation:

"because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved." Romans 10:9-10

When you make a choice to make a participle a command, when the only command in the passage is "dwell" you have become a legalist and a cultist. Because you do not know the Greek language. And neither does the church YOU personally attend.

 

[Elizabeth619]

That may be true, though you seem to be in the minority of CoCer's that dont hold these insane instruments send you to hell ideas. So you have to put up with a little guilt by association.

I don't have to put up with anything. lol

 

[Shava]

Let me repeat a bit of what I wrote in post #47, page 3.

THE WORD PSALMOIS, MEANS PLAY WITH INSTRUMENTS IN THE GREEK!



ONE MORE TIME!

THE WORD PSALMOIS, MEANS PLAY WITH INSTRUMENTS IN THE GREEK!

This is not an argument about theology. The GREEK SETTLES it! If you choose to worship without instruments, I have no problem. If you come on here and tell me I am going to hell because I not only worship with instruments, but play instruments in the worship band in the church I attend, I am going to tell you to go back, research the truth.

Do not listen to your denomination because it is WRONG.....

THE WORD PSALMOIS, MEANS PLAY WITH INSTRUMENTS IN THE GREEK!

And Shava, you can quote all the sources in the world you want to justify your beliefs, it still doesn't change the meaning of the word that Paul purposely used.

As far as a cult, Elizabeth goes to your denomination, and seems quite fine with making a personal choice. Her church does not appear to be a cult. The reason YOU personally are in a cult, is because you force others to believe your warped misinterpretation of the Bible, on an issue which is not essential one with regards to salvation, but you personally have made it one!

Salvation:

"because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved." Romans 10:9-10

When you make a choice to make a participle a command, when the only command in the passage is "dwell" you have become a legalist and a cultist. Because you do not know the Greek language. And neither does the church YOU personally attend.

It isn't just my church who says this as I have given independent sources from Catholics on down. Unfortunately I feel you're wrong, and with that I go with what I believe.

 

[Shava]

That may be true, though you seem to be in the minority of CoCer's that dont hold these insane instruments send you to hell ideas. So you have to put up with a little guilt by association.

The majority of Churches of Christ that believe that instruments are forbidden is staggering to say the least, you're talking maybe 1 or 2 % at the most use instruments. If you worship by adding instruments to worship, then there will be consequences.

 

[Shava]

Music and singing is the highest form of praise and worship. Don't think so, the longest book in the bible is Psalms

No doubt, but my issue is with what is allowed in worship, and the bible says singing only, by command.

 

[KohenMatt]

Let me repeat a bit of what I wrote in post #47, page 3.

THE WORD PSALMOIS, MEANS PLAY WITH INSTRUMENTS IN THE GREEK!



ONE MORE TIME!

THE WORD PSALMOIS, MEANS PLAY WITH INSTRUMENTS IN THE GREEK!

This is not an argument about theology. The GREEK SETTLES it! If you choose to worship without instruments, I have no problem. If you come on here and tell me I am going to hell because I not only worship with instruments, but play instruments in the worship band in the church I attend, I am going to tell you to go back, research the truth.

Do not listen to your denomination because it is WRONG.....

THE WORD PSALMOIS, MEANS PLAY WITH INSTRUMENTS IN THE GREEK!

And Shava, you can quote all the sources in the world you want to justify your beliefs, it still doesn't change the meaning of the word that Paul purposely used.

As far as a cult, Elizabeth goes to your denomination, and seems quite fine with making a personal choice. Her church does not appear to be a cult. The reason YOU personally are in a cult, is because you force others to believe your warped misinterpretation of the Bible, on an issue which is not essential one with regards to salvation, but you personally have made it one!

Salvation:

"because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved." Romans 10:9-10

When you make a choice to make a participle a command, when the only command in the passage is "dwell" you have become a legalist and a cultist. Because you do not know the Greek language. And neither does the church YOU personally attend.

Thank you for re-iterating this. I had asked a couple of times for the CoC'ers to give me the actual definition, but I guess that request was missed.

The Greek definition of the word "psalms" in the scripture they use should be the final say in the matter.

Sadly, I doubt that it is.

Regardless, thanks again Angela!