Repentance Vs Eternal Security

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
guestno2 said:
Well now I am confused,
So this is what you were aiming on?
That there is no possibility of salvation certainty?
Well, that means, that I was here on a wrong side.
I have salvation certainty, yes, I believe that we still have to repent and fight,

but I don’t think that my heart is a dovecot from which Jesus arrives and departs by whether I sin or not.


Although I believe that I can lose my connection (not salvation) with Him b cause of my sin and I can make sadden the Holy Spirit who is very sensitive to sin, but I can repent and He will forgive me, He will not leave me.

I believe that it’s my duty (very bad word for what I actually mean, but I am too lazy to look up better one) to washed my clothes as it is written in revel.
Blessed are those who wash their robes so they can have access to the tree of life and can enter into the city by the gates.

Or KJV
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

I wouldnt say, that human can somehow sabotage God will.
I agree that God can change His will in some cases. But in the end it is God, not human who change course.
hm, I hope you understand, what I mean.
be blessed
Click to expand...

IF one has a faithful obedience to Christ, keeps Christ works and is faithful unto death, Rev 2:10,26 he can know he is saved.



IF a Christian remains impenitent of his sins, that is, quits walking in the light per 1 Jn 1:7, he can know he will be lost.



Lk 13:3,5 Jesus said repent or perish. These words do not fit well with UNCONDITIONAL eternal security for Jesus words makes savlation CONDITONAL upon one repenting. SO the man made eternal security is mutually exclusive to biblical repentance.

Have you been watching how the faith only crowd is trying to get an impenitent person into heaven still in his unforgiven, unpardoned sins?

Will those that fail to keep God's command to repent have a right to the tree of life? No.
 
SarahM777 said:
What gets MISSED in all of this is one thing,the warnings ALL go back thing and that is walking or falling away from the faith. Continued unrepentant sin DAMAGES and weakens our faith. If one loses their faith,then HOW in the world can that person STILL be declared righteous? No one can be declared righteous without faith. Jesus warnings all lead in the end to UNBELIEF.
Click to expand...


Unrepented sin damages faith and can lead to a hardened heart, but at the same time that unrepented sin stains, spots the soul for Christ's blood nolonger cleanses away all the sins of the Christian who has quit walking in the light/quit repenting, 1 Jn 1:7
 
eternally-gratefull said:


Unless one truly repents they are not saved, if they are not saved, they do not have eternal life (security)
Click to expand...



Until one repents of his sins he is lost and remains lost. That means all the belief only in the world cannot save one that will not repent of his sins.
 
SeaBass said:
Until one repents of his sins he is lost and remains lost. That means all the belief only in the world cannot save one that will not repent of his sins.
Click to expand...

lol..

One can not have faith unless they believe they are a sinner. in order to do this, one must repent.

you missed the whole point of my post. when will you get it?
 
SarahM777 said:
UMM that is a misuse of that passage. EG God does NOT promise that He will save anyone without FAITH. No one will be saved WITHOUT faith. Show ANY passages that plainly say UNBELIEF will save you. What will save you if you were to fall into unbelief? That is what is at the heart of ALL of the warnings.

There is NOTHING in that passage that is even hinting at God being faithful to ones unbelief. It is about God being faithful to Himself.
Click to expand...

Yes.

God will not treat those that lose their faith as if they are still faithful. God remains faithful to His own promises, and God has promised to save them that "obey", Heb 5:9 and have vengeance upon those that "obey not", 2 Thess 1:8...and God cannot break His promises by telling a lie.
 
SeaBass said:
Yes.

God will not treat those that lose their faith as if they are still faithful.
Click to expand...


And who, Who had true faith, would lose their faith?

You act as if a person who was saved from destruction by someone would EVER lose faith in that person to save them from destruction..

The only people who would turn on the person who saved them would be the person who was never saved in the first place.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
And who, Who had true faith, would lose their faith?

You act as if a person who was saved from destruction by someone would EVER lose faith in that person to save them from destruction..

The only people who would turn on the person who saved them would be the person who was never saved in the first place.
Click to expand...

The parable of the sower is a good guide to those who show temporary faith that is not deep-seated and genuine.
 
eternally-gratefull said:

Judas never believed. He was always in sin. have you even read the bible about him? he was steeling from them from the begining, he was a thief.
Click to expand...

That is simply NOT the case with Judas.


Lk 6:13-16 Judas was as much a believing disciple as the other 11 that were chosen.

In Matthew chapter 10, in what some call the "limited commission" that Jesus gave to His apostles, everything said in that chapter is said about ALL the apostles including Judas. For example in verse 40 it was said to Judas "He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me." So receiving Judas the apostle was the sme as receiving Christ and God who sent Christ. Verse 19,20 Judas had the Holy SPirit in him enabling Judas to preach inspirationally.

Lastly we are told in Acts 1 that Judas fell by transgression. What did he fall from? If he was "always a sinner" then he was "always fallen". An already fallen person cannot fall. Judas therefore MUST have been in a saved position as an apostle where his transgressions were being forvgiven and yet fell from that saved position.
 
faroukfarouk said:
The parable of the sower is a good guide to those who show temporary faith that is not deep-seated and genuine.
Click to expand...

You can not leave out the third part of that parable which states that for some the cares of the world would choke out that faith. That CAN include a strong believer and not a shallow faith. And no where in that parable can you show that Jesus said that none of their faith was not genuine. You are reading more into it then what is there.
 
Having begun in grace are you now made perfect in works?

What is insufficient in Gods grace that mans works can complete? What has Christ left undone that we must complete for Him?

What did Christ mean when He said "It is finished"?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
SarahM777 said:
You can not leave out the third part of that parable which states that for some the cares of the world would choke out that faith. That CAN include a strong believer and not a shallow faith. And no where in that parable can you show that Jesus said that none of their faith was not genuine. You are reading more into it then what is there.
Click to expand...
It also does not say that they became unsaved only that they were unable to mature and produce fruit. They did not become thorns but remained seedlings.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
SeaBass said:
That is simply NOT the case with Judas.


Lk 6:13-16 Judas was as much a believing disciple as the other 11 that were chosen.

In Matthew chapter 10, in what some call the "limited commission" that Jesus gave to His apostles, everything said in that chapter is said about ALL the apostles including Judas. For example in verse 40 it was said to Judas "He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me." So receiving Judas the apostle was the sme as receiving Christ and God who sent Christ. Verse 19,20 Judas had the Holy SPirit in him enabling Judas to preach inspirationally.

Lastly we are told in Acts 1 that Judas fell by transgression. What did he fall from? If he was "always a sinner" then he was "always fallen". An already fallen person cannot fall. Judas therefore MUST have been in a saved position as an apostle where his transgressions were being forvgiven and yet fell from that saved position.
Click to expand...

lol. So a thieving person who stole from day one (sinned continually) was truly saved.

You just contradicted yourself. You said they can;t be saved in sin, yet you are claiming judas was saved while not showing a changed life.

make up your mind.
 
notuptome said:
Many equate the parable of the sower exclusively to salvation. While there is an application to that there is also an application to sanctification. The first sowing of the seed falls on hard ground and does not germinate and the birds carry it away. The second sowing falls on ground and germinates but due to lack of water and depth of root fails to progress to maturity. The third sowing also germinates and begins to grow but is overcome. These do not mature to produce fruit. Only the last sowing matures and produces fruit. Three of the sowings represent new birth with only one producing fruit. I suggest that many in the church today are represented in the second and third sowing with only a small percentage in the fourth sowing. The majority of the world is in the first sowing.

There has been debate over Judas for many many years by men who are better than I who cannot come to a conclusion that is above reproof. Only the Lord knows if Judas was saved or lost. I suspect the latter and see him in the first sowing of the seed but God is merciful so I leave it in Gods hands.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Click to expand...

The bible gives more than ample proof Judas was a believer, a disciple of Christ in a saved position. It is the Eternal Securists that want to put doubt upon Judas' salvation for the obvious reason.
 
SeaBass said:
The bible gives more than ample proof Judas was a believer, a disciple of Christ in a saved position. It is the Eternal Securists that want to put doubt upon Judas' salvation for the obvious reason.
Click to expand...

not true.

a disciple is one who follows. many follow but never trust. they were never saved, because they never trusted.
 
eternally-gratefull said:

lol..

One can not have faith unless they believe they are a sinner. in order to do this, one must repent.

you missed the whole point of my post. when will you get it?
Click to expand...

You keep saying "one must repent". So salvation is not possible without the work opf repentance. This is my point and what the bible teaches.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
And who, Who had true faith, would lose their faith?

You act as if a person who was saved from destruction by someone would EVER lose faith in that person to save them from destruction..

The only people who would turn on the person who saved them would be the person who was never saved in the first place.
Click to expand...

People choose by their own freewill to believe, and they can choose of that same volition to not believe.


"...the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire"

Is it impossible for a washed sow to go back to wallowing in the mire? No.
 
notuptome said:
Having begun in grace are you now made perfect in works?

What is insufficient in Gods grace that mans works can complete? What has Christ left undone that we must complete for Him?

What did Christ mean when He said "It is finished"?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Click to expand...

I assume you are referring to Gal 3:3 "Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh"

In the context Paul is condemning the Galatians fro leaving Christ's NT, having quit "obeying the truth" Gal 3:1 and Gal 5:7 and went to the law of Moses thinking circumcison of the flesh would justify them. So works of the OT law cannot save, but they would be saved if they continued obeying the truth, obeying Christ's NT law that would keep them saved
 
eternally-gratefull said:
lol. So a thieving person who stole from day one (sinned continually) was truly saved.

You just contradicted yourself. You said they can;t be saved in sin, yet you are claiming judas was saved while not showing a changed life.

make up your mind.
Click to expand...

Judas was not a sinner from day one, Lk 6:13-16 calls him a disciple of Christ.

I gave you 3 points from the bible that showed Judas was in a saved position.
 
SeaBass said:
People choose by their own freewill to believe, and they can choose of that same volition to not believe.


"...the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire"

Is it impossible for a washed sow to go back to wallowing in the mire? No.
Click to expand...
You can wash an unbeliever by sending him to church but he will soon return to the mire of this world. A man who has been in the presence of Jesus Christ and has been regenerated by the Holy Spirit can never go back to what he was before. The old man dead in trespass and sin is made a new creation in Christ Jesus. New creation in Christ can never go back. Can the butterfly go back?

The problem here is that you think that washing a sow makes it something other than a washed sow. Jesus makes a new man from the old dead one. Newness of life in Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back