Talking against the law is dangerous

[just-me]

Putting down the law just to get over it is very dangerous and that comes from a carnal mind.
Putting down the canal is Spiritual.
Putting down any part of God's words, for the purpose of feeling spiritual, is carnal.
We are not justified by the works of the law any more than we are justified by purposefully negating it, for both ways of thinking are carnal.
Is it really that hard for professing Christians to see a Spiritual law and its Spiritual attributes?
What are we scared of?
The people that want to negate the law to be righteous obviously see the law in a physical way just as the ones that perform the works of the law to be righteous. Both sides of this equation come from a carnal mind.

It is God who gave the law to Moses, not the flesh, for "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." John 4:24 (KJV)

Jeremiah 18:2-6 (KJV)
[SUP]2[/SUP]Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.

Romans 9:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Isaiah 29:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

Isaiah 45:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

Luke 13:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
for many,will seek to enter and not be able

 

[ivanc0]

"Talking against the law is dangerous"

Sad that Peter (acts 15:10).James Acts 21,Paul, and Jesus itself ("I came to fulfill the law..."), Did not listen to you.
Are you sure you are a real Christian?
It my be better to visit you local synagoge,
Our friends in the local mosk also like to speak about the law.

There is a Guy, I think is called Paul, He likes to say the law is dead, but the spirit life.

 

[p_rehbein]

So, if we quote the words of Jesus Christ, or the Apostle Paul we are wrong?

First Covenant: The Law was a "carnal" oriented Covenant........requiring "physical works."

New Covenant: Grace is a "spiritual" oriented Covenant........requiring "belief/faith."

Law/works are the "carnal" part of Scripture
Grace/faith/belief are the "spiritual" part of Scripture.

.................goodness.................

The 9[SUP]th[/SUP] Chapter of Hebrews truly explains the First and New Covenants quite well. If you read and understand it, you will have gone a long way to answering all of your questions concerning the Two Covenants.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Ephesians has rather a lot to do with grace rather than law.

The Acts of the Apostles has rather a lot to do with the transition from the old economy.

The Epistle to the Hebrews has rather a lot to say about what, in Christ, is 'better' - a keyword - than what went before in the Old Testament.

 

[just-me]

"Talking against the law is dangerous"

Sad that Peter (acts 15:10).James Acts 21,Paul, and Jesus itself ("I came to fulfill the law..."), Did not listen to you.
Are you sure you are a real Christian?
It my be better to visit you local synagoge,
Our friends in the local mosk also like to speak about the law.

There is a Guy, I think is called Paul, He likes to say the law is dead, but the spirit life.

I find no quote in the Bible that says Paul said that "the law is dead." He did, however, say this:

Romans 7:4-25 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
[SUP]25 [/SUP]I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

It's obvious to all that are reading this that you are not following suit with the very person you quoted.

1 Corinthians 15:30-31 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?
[SUP]31 [/SUP]I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

 

[just-me]

So, if we quote the words of Jesus Christ, or the Apostle Paul we are wrong?

First Covenant: The Law was a "carnal" oriented Covenant........requiring "physical works."

New Covenant: Grace is a "spiritual" oriented Covenant........requiring "belief/faith."

Law/works are the "carnal" part of Scripture
Grace/faith/belief are the "spiritual" part of Scripture.

.................goodness.................

The 9[SUP]th[/SUP] Chapter of Hebrews truly explains the First and New Covenants quite well. If you read and understand it, you will have gone a long way to answering all of your questions concerning the Two Covenants.

You are right that the law, and the old covenant are only seen through the aspects of a carnal mind.

Romans 8:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

I see many speaking against the law of God, proving that they only see it through the mind of the flesh, and not in the Spirit.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"Talking against the law is dangerous"

Sad that Peter (acts 15:10).James Acts 21,Paul, and Jesus itself ("I came to fulfill the law..."), Did not listen to you.
Are you sure you are a real Christian?
It my be better to visit you local synagoge,
Our friends in the local mosk also like to speak about the law.

There is a Guy, I think is called Paul, He likes to say the law is dead, but the spirit life.

lol.. so true.

why do people think they can be righteous by the law. when Jesus Paul and the whole of the NT says otherwise.

of course just-me would fit better with the jews of Galatia, he adds the law to Christ, the synagog would reject him, because he adds Christ to law..

 

[just-me]

Ephesians has rather a lot to do with grace rather than law.

The Acts of the Apostles has rather a lot to do with the transition from the old economy.

The Epistle to the Hebrews has rather a lot to say about what, in Christ, is 'better' - a keyword - than what went before in the Old Testament.

Galatians is also good
Galatians 3:21-23 (KJV)
[SUP]21[/SUP]Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I find no quote in the Bible that says Paul said that "the law is dead." He did, however, say this:

maybe that is because you pic and chose which parts of the bible to read?

Romans 7:4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.

Romans 7:6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Galatians 3:10 [ The Law Brings a Curse ] For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do

Galatians 3:24-25
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Galatians 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Galatians 5:22-23
[SUP]2 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [SUP]23 [/SUP]gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

Ephesians 2:15 having abolished (killed or destroyed) in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances,

 

[faroukfarouk]

Galatians is also good
Galatians 3:21-23 (KJV)
[SUP]21[/SUP]Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

...and the Apostle Paul goes on to stress that the Galatian believers were actually under grace, rather than law.

 

[just-me]

One guy said; "get this ceiling of condemnation off of me!"

Then Jesus walked into the room and said; "Come upstairs with me, for I constructed the 2nd floor."

 

[chubbena]

lol.. so true.

why do people think they can be righteous by the law. when Jesus Paul and the whole of the NT says otherwise.

of course just-me would fit better with the jews of Galatia, he adds the law to Christ, the synagog would reject him, because he adds Christ to law..

It's so true every time the law is upheld some would think it's about righteous by the law.
Stop being a scoffer and read the OP.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Galatians is also good
Galatians 3:21-23 (KJV)
[SUP]21[/SUP]Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Notice how deceiving it can be when one does not post the whole passage, but leaves stuff out so we can not see context.

so lets finish the passage for ALL to see.

why did he stop at verse 23:: and not continue??

[SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

we also must look earlier in the passage, to get complete context.

Galatians 3:10 [ The Law Brings a Curse ] For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

Galatians 3:13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”),

 

[eternally-gratefull]

One guy said; "get this ceiling of condemnation off of me!"

Then Jesus walked into the room and said; "Come upstairs with me, for I constructed the 2nd floor."

not a good representative of truth concerning the old and the new

It should go like this.

"get this ceiling of condemnation of me"

Jesus said. I have destroyed the ceiling, It can no longer harm you"

 

[just-me]

...and the Apostle Paul goes on to stress that the Galatian believers were actually under grace, rather than law.

Being under grace is the ceiling of the 2nd floor, being under the law is the ceiling of the 1st floor, but the house still stands because the foundation is solid.

Jesus knows our "thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:" Matthew 12:25 (KJV)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It's so true every time the law is upheld some would think it's about righteous by the law.
Stop being a scoffer and read the OP.

That is not the point my friend.

The point is. Can the law be upheld. The answer is a resounding no. (for in order to be upheld, it must be obeyed in all the things written in it with NO MISTAKES)

You may THINK you uphold the law. But you can't. And if you want to follow the law. You must suffer the curse of the law. Plain and simple.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Being under grace is the ceiling of the 2nd floor, being under the law is the ceiling of the 1st floor, but the house still stands because the foundation is solid.

Jesus knows our "thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:" Matthew 12:25 (KJV)

again wrong

Being under the law is being condemned

Being under grace is having the thing which condemns destroyed. Otherwise, we are still condemned.

 

[Karraster]

Speaking against any part of the Word is like speaking against our Creator. Having a true love for Almighty, for Yahshua/Jesus who lived as a man and suffered a torturous death, brings a grateful heart closer to all His instructions and teachings. And the "law" is better understood as teaching and instruction.
[h=3]Psalm 119:105[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]105 [/SUP]Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Speaking against any part of the Word is like speaking against our Creator. Having a true love for Almighty, for Yahshua/Jesus who lived as a man and suffered a torturous death, brings a grateful heart closer to all His instructions and teachings. And the "law" is better understood as teaching and instruction.
Psalm 119:105

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]105 [/SUP]Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

It's also a healthy thing to seek to be 'rightly dividing the word of truth' (2 Timothy 2.15).

 

[just-me]

I get the feeling that somehow the law of God is a threat to some people, and a beauty to others. What's there to be scared of, if it is no longer condemning? There's no way that it's going to vanish even if we say that it has.

If we try to get rid of it, it still stands right where it originally has been established. There is only one way to get around it, or above it, and that is through Jesus Christ. It ain't gonna move or go away because we want it to. That's like saying that God established something that He knew wouldn't be beneficial but only to those that didn't believe, and absolutely no good for His own, after we have received His gift of faith.

It's like saying to a child, "I have something better for you because what I gave you first is now very bad, and I really messed up." What are we representing when we endorse those attributes about our Father in heaven?