Talking against the law is dangerous

[eternally-gratefull]

This what you explain here is creating an enemy to love one , the bible quote that say love your enemy does not mean create an enemy to love one this is not a good start and you should not do it

lol.. SHe directed that passage you gave to me. As if I was not listening to her, which she has truth and I do not. So she should dust her feet of and not look back (talk to me anymore) You see, She is the one demanding she has truth and I believe her way or else. I have not shown this to anyone.

As for my statement, It was a chastening statement.

A child of God would not do what she did. So I confronted her on what she said.

So I must wonder. why are you attacking me and not her?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, and like many things not easily described...when it happens..when you wake up one morning knowing why you were born, and the answer is, to do your Father's will, and to seek Him with every breath, with all your might...and you know what joy is.

and His Word, His teaching His desire..becomes your own. It is no longer an idea, it is in your heart, part of you. Honor Him in all your ways and He will direct your path,
Psalm 28:7

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]7 [/SUP]The Lord is my strength and my shield;
my heart trusted in him, and I am helped:
therefore my heart greatly rejoiceth;
and with my song will I praise him.

I agree with everything you said here.

But I must ask. When did that person become a child of God. and have his relationship with god restored so he could do all of these things you correctly state.

 

[Zinzerio]

lol. Well I am not sure how your love for cookees and no one would keep them from you explains the example I used as just an example of how the law could not keep you from sinning. So again I can only say you seemed to skirt around the issue and still did not answer my question.

But to show you I am not a hypocrite. and have no problem answering every question you give I will respond to yous.

The man in your example.

1. How well did the law help him?

Did the law "do not covet" help him? He coveted evidently alot of things from alot of people
Did the law "do not steel" Help him? He evidently stole alot of things
Did the law, "Do not bare false witness' help him? He evidently bared false witness against alot of people falsely blaming them

so you see again the law was POWERLESS to keep him from sin.

Now imagine if he had the law of faith and Christ.

Would he covet what the people he stole from had? Or praise God for blessing them
Would he steel from them? Or love them enough to not hurt them in any way
Would he lie about others? or would he humble himself and take the blame for his own sin?

You see how the law of love and CHrist IS powerfull to break sin, Because when we follow it, We will never sin. But the law of moses will never stop us from sin, Because we know it, We believe it, We know we will be punished for breaking it. Yet we still sin..

Not just this, But according to the law. Because we still sin, We are by the law condemned.

Anyway, I pray yuo get some sleep. I need to get some myself.

But I hope we can continue this conversation. And you do not do as others, and claim to ignore me. I am no more trying to judge you than I was trying to judge them Just trying to get yuo to think, and at the same time, get you to understand where I am coming from. And I hope to see where you are coming from as this is the only way we can learn from each other, and truly see what the other believes instead of trying to guess, or assume

Ok this it now this is what i think every time someone breaks the law they feel they have done something wrong, because of the law written in there heart and i think secretly they ask for forgiveness, or at least a high majority,

in the old testament that did not happen because the law had not been written on there heart its that simple, this is what else i feel

you are only free from condemnation of the law when you stop sinning when you stop doing a sin you are free from the condemnation of that sin its that simple look here 1 john 5:18
1 John 5:18

New International Version - UK (NIVUK)

[SUP]18 [/SUP]We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ok this it now this is what i think every time someone breaks the law they feel they have done something wrong, because of the law written in there heart

I agree 100 % (you did not expect that did you?)

and i think secretly they ask for forgiveness, or at least a high majority,

I even agree with this. But the pharisees asked forgiveness did they not? Did they not have the law? How good did it do for them as for as procuring eternal life?

i

n the old testament that did not happen because the law had not been written on there heart its that simple, this is what else i feel

How do you answer romans 1 then?

[SUP]18 [/SUP]For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, [SUP]19 [/SUP]because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

[SUP]32 [/SUP]who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

you are only free from condemnation of the law when you stop sinning when you stop doing a sin you are free from the condemnation of that sin its that simple look here 1 john 5:18
1 John 5:18

New International Version - UK (NIVUK)

[SUP]18 [/SUP]We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them.

oh. so you believe one can be sinless completely? or did i misunderstand you?

If you do believe this What do you say of 1 john ??

[SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Notice. John included himself in that statement.

 

[Karraster]

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.” —2nd Corinthians 5:10

 

[eternally-gratefull]

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.” —2nd Corinthians 5:10

No person who is not a believer of God, and thus not a child of God will be at this judgment. They will appear at the Great White Throne Judgment.

This is a believers judgment, And I Agree, we will all appear before the BEMA seat..

but what does this have to do with the ten commandments and how well that will make you a righteous person?

 

[Karraster]

I love the LORD, because he hath heard my voice and my supplications. 2Because he hath inclined his ear unto me, therefore will I call upon him as long as I live.
3The sorrows of death compassed me, and the pains of hell gat hold upon me: I found trouble and sorrow.
4Then called I upon the name of the LORD; O LORD, I beseech thee, deliver my soul.
5Gracious is the LORD, and righteous; yea, our God is merciful.
6The LORD preserveth the simple: I was brought low, and he helped me.

 

[Karraster]

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

again I ask you.

Prove this is speaking of the mosaic commands.

why is it you people love to quote verses. but never respond to simple questions. then judge those who do nto agree with you?

 

[Karraster]

again I ask you.

Prove this is speaking of the mosaic commands.

why is it you people love to quote verses. but never respond to simple questions. then judge those who do nto agree with you?

Forgiveness is more powerful than vengeance, and compassion greater than hate. Do you agree?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Forgiveness is more powerful than vengeance, and compassion greater than hate. Do you agree?

yes, But where did we learn this idea? Who gave it to us, and when? And how do we do these (which I might add, Are commands of God)

 

[haz]

The "Ten Commandments" (as we know them) are a very small part of the law. In this thread, and in other places, I have never endorsed to others that they must keep the law in a physical manner. I know that some do, but I am labled with them as a Judaizer, legalizer, hypocrite, and Pharisee. Ignorant, and irrational can be included. The law is spiritual, and "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."e.

I note you say that Christians don't have to keep the 10 commandments (the law), in a "physical manner".
Can you explain yourself further.
For example my earlier question as to how God sees the many Christians who do not keep the Sabbath.

 

[ivanc0]

Only when one, due to whatever reason, disregard Ezekiel 36:25-27 would believe the law has stopped.
And regarding Galatians, only when one does not read the whole letter would he think it's regarding the whole law.
Paul was talking about the circumcision group trying to get the Galatians to circumcise.
Paul was talking about Peter forcing Gentiles to follow Jewish customs i.e. they could not associate with the Jews unless they were circumcised.
I said it before and I say it again, only recently, like the last 50 years, is the letter to the Galatians and the law interpreted differently. The deception has begun.

I am completely knocked down in the floor LOL because your statement.

The scripture you Just so in my comment says:

"I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law"

And you say something contrary to it.

I just returned from work, I am a computer software consultant, and work with bugs and logic every day, I see your theories full of holes and bugs. but thanks lot for copping with my poor English.

 

[ivanc0]

This is crazy look all these scriptures wrote in the new testament look here

[h=3]Galatians 5:13-14[/h]English Standard Version (ESV)

[SUP]13 [/SUP]For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

 

[MidniteWelder]

\


according to romans 1. Everyone from Adam to you and I have had this.

the answer I guess is when we become conscious of sin,

You guess...YOU GUESS?!

 

[Zinzerio]

Galatians 5:13-14

English Standard Version (ESV)

[SUP]13 [/SUP]For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

yes and i suppose when you love your neighbor as your self you no longer sin as spoke of in 1john 5:18


1 John 5:18

New International Version - UK (NIVUK)

[SUP]18 [/SUP]We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them.

do you understand this

 

[Zinzerio]

OK I WILL EXPLAIN IVANCO if you can love your nieghbour as your self and this includes all nieghbour you will no longer sin.

BUT I TELL YOU that you are a long way from this but i will pray for you ok

 

[ivanc0]

yes and i suppose when you love your neighbor as your self you no longer sin as spoke of in 1john 5:18


1 John 5:18

New International Version - UK (NIVUK)

Yes. I love all of you, this is why I keep writing to show you the real gospel of Jesus. sorry if here and there I lost my patience and called some one pharisee, or doctor of the law. 'I apologize'

But it drive me nuts when the simple gospel of Jesus is distorted by judaizer ideologies.

-there was two streams of cristianisim:
One the Jews, who lived his Judaizim + christianisim.
Two The Gentiles, they do not have to follow Moses Law, but the Law of Grace.

If you Understand this then the scriptures are easy to be Understood. ("the apostol to the circumcision, and the apostle to the in circumcision")

If you want to have only one stream, then is impossible to conciliate all the scriptures.

This is why the argument is endless to infinitum.....

 

[Zinzerio]

I note you say that Christians don't have to keep the 10 commandments (the law), in a "physical manner".
Can you explain yourself further.
For example my earlier question as to how God sees the many Christians who do not keep the Sabbath.

look here IVANCO HAS THE ANSWER if you love your neighbor as your self then you will keep the sabbath its that simple ok

 

[just-me]

I note you say that Christians don't have to keep the 10 commandments (the law), in a "physical manner".
Can you explain yourself further.
For example my earlier question as to how God sees the many Christians who do not keep the Sabbath.

Before I started answering you I was also thinking abut the Sabbath so that gives way to common ground for communication. Now to answer your first sentence. Outside of temple worship laws, the Ten Commandments are only just a portion of our responsibility concerning what God has instructed. We all know we cannot perfectly keep them. If we are guilty of breaking one, we are guilty of breaking all of them. When we submit to God, through Jesus Christ, we also submit to the law with our way of thinking. Paul calls that "with the mind I myself serve the law of God." Romans 7:25 (KJV) For that matter, read Romans 7:7-25

When Jesus brings us out from underneath the law, we have the Holy Spirit giving us the capability to see the law in a totally different perspective. Even though our flesh wars against being submissive to the law, with our renewed mind, we have a sincere desire to keep the law of our responsibility in every avenue of our lives. So yes, our responsibility can be seen as physical, but the principles of the law are kept and motivated by the gift of faith. The motivation of trying to keep the law of our responsibility without faith causes us to think we are righteous by the works of the law and not the works of faith.

James 4:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.
Romans 3:31 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

In summary we desire to keep the law of our responsibility (starting with Exodus chapter 20 through 23) because we are motivated by faith and the indwelling Holy Spirit. So that makes the "Ten Commandments" that are part of the law, our responsibility to keep by the the Holy Spirit of God. That's why I say that the law has to be seen in Spirit, not physical. Physically, we respond to the Spiritual when we are have the indwelling Holy Spirit. Are we then successful? No we have joy in tribulation, and peace with the principles that motivate us. That's why Jesus said.."If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me." Luke 9:23 (KJV) And Paul said "I die daily." 1 Corinthians 15:31 (KJV)

James 2:17-20 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Concerning the Sabbath day. It's a day set aside to keep holy, and have spiritual rest, and camaraderie. It is neither Saturday or Sunday according to the Gregorian calendar, and I know some will heartily disagree with that. I do however, say it is very important to assemble and communicate. What is important about the Sabbath day (whenever it really is) is to cease doing our own works, and do God's works. Every day we should strive to enter His rest. The physical day set aside for meeting with other believers for edification is very important. There are Sabbath days relating to the 3 feasts in the law, given to us as a time of spiritual understanding.

Mark 2:27-28 (KJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Hebrews 4:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Hebrews 4:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
1 Thessalonians 5:11 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.
Hebrews 10:25 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Spiritually motivated, by faith is the key. We still have a fleshly body that we constantly need to fight and put into submission to the inner man where the new temple is located.

1 Corinthians 3:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

All of the physical stuff of the temple that is gone is now also incorporated with this responsibility of ours called keeping the law, and being subject to the law.

Mark 14:58 (KJV)
[SUP]58 [/SUP]We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.
Hebrews 8:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]In that he saith, A new "covenant," (added word) he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. ("covenant," is an added word. This chapter begins talking about temple sacrifice. "temple" instead of "covenant" would be more appropriate)

Romans 8:1-9 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

2 Peter 1:5-11 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

See post # 368