Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship?
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Simple logic, called the law of inclusion and exclusion. When singing is commanded then that automatically eliminates playing, clapping, humming, etc.
No different that when God commanded Noah to build the ark using gopher wood. God simply saying "gopher wood" automatically eliminated all other types of wood WITHOUT God having to specifically eliminate them each one by name.
Since God did not specifically tell Noah "do not use oak" that allowed Noah to use oak to build the ark?
No different that when God commanded Noah to build the ark using gopher wood. God simply saying "gopher wood" automatically eliminated all other types of wood WITHOUT God having to specifically eliminate them each one by name.
Since God did not specifically tell Noah "do not use oak" that allowed Noah to use oak to build the ark?
Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ,
according to THE FAITH of God’s elect,
and the acknowledging of THE TRUTH which is after godliness;
Titus 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word
AS HE HAS BEEN TAUGHT (CENI)
that he may be able by sound doctrine
both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
Titus 1:10 For there are many unruly and
vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
Mataiologia (g3150) mat-ah-yol-og-ee'-ah; from 3151; random talk, i.e. babble: - vain jangling.
1 Tim 1:6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vainjangling;
Phrenapates a soul-deceiver Planos
1Tim. 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Daimonion (g1140) dahee-mon'-ee-on; neut. of a der. of 1142; a doemonic being; by extens. a deity: - devil, god.
Daimon(g1142) dah'ee-mown; from daio, (to distribute fortunes); a doemon or supernatural spirit (of a bad nature): - devil
Titus 1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped,
who subvert whole houses,
teaching things which they ought not,
for filthy lucres sake.
Titus 1:12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
Titus 1:13 This witness is true.
Wherefore rebuke them sharply,
that they may be sound in THE FAITH
Titus 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables,
and commandments of men,
that turn from the truth.
Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
The PURE are those who are in THE FAITH.
The IMPURE are those giving heed to JEWISH FABLES.
Turning BACK to Jewish fables COULD NOT BE PURE.
Muthos 2. public speech, “m. andressi melēsei” Od.1.358; “muthoisin skoliois” Hes.Op.194
FABLES TO FOOL: Fābŭla , ae, f. fari,B. Of particular kinds of poetry.
1. Most freq., a dramatic poem, drama, play (syn.: “ludus, cantus, actio, etc.): in full, fabula scaenica,” “or, theatralis,” id. 14, 6, 20: “fabula ad actum scenarum composita, ”fabulam, quae versatur in tragoediis atque carminibus non a veritate modo [melod]
FABLES TO FOOL: Cantus , ūs, m. id., I. the production of melodious sound, a musical utterance or expression, either with voice or instrument; hence, song, singing, playing,
1. With the voice, a singing, song; in full, cantus vocum, Cic. Rosc. Am. 46, 134: “fit etiam saepe vocum gravitate et cantibus ut pellantur animi, etc.,
2. With instruments, a playing, music: “citharae,” “horribili stridebat tibia cantu,” Cat. 64, 264: “querulae tibiae, “lyrae,” Plin. 34, 8, 19, § 72: “tibicine
FABLES TO FOOL: Scaenĭcus (scen- ), a, um, adj., = skēnikos, I. of or belonging to the stage, scenic, dramatic, theatrical (class.) stage-plays, theatrical representations, “fabula,” a drama, Amm. 28, 1, 4: “organa,” Suet. Ner. 44: “coronae,” id. ib. 53: “habitus,” id. ib. 38: “gestus,” Cic. de Or. 3, 59, 220: “modulatio,” Quint. 11, 3, 57:
IF YOU REJECT BAPTISM YOU WILL NEVER RECEIVE A HOLY SPIRIT OR A PURE SPIRIT OR A GOOD CONSCIENCE AND IT IS A FACT THAT THE INSTRUMENTAL BANDITOS APPEAL TO JEWISH FABLES AS THEIR "PATTERN."
according to THE FAITH of God’s elect,
and the acknowledging of THE TRUTH which is after godliness;
Titus 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word
AS HE HAS BEEN TAUGHT (CENI)
that he may be able by sound doctrine
both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
Titus 1:10 For there are many unruly and
vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
Mataiologia (g3150) mat-ah-yol-og-ee'-ah; from 3151; random talk, i.e. babble: - vain jangling.
1 Tim 1:6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vainjangling;
Phrenapates a soul-deceiver Planos
1Tim. 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Daimonion (g1140) dahee-mon'-ee-on; neut. of a der. of 1142; a doemonic being; by extens. a deity: - devil, god.
Daimon(g1142) dah'ee-mown; from daio, (to distribute fortunes); a doemon or supernatural spirit (of a bad nature): - devil
Titus 1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped,
who subvert whole houses,
teaching things which they ought not,
for filthy lucres sake.
Titus 1:12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
Titus 1:13 This witness is true.
Wherefore rebuke them sharply,
that they may be sound in THE FAITH
Titus 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables,
and commandments of men,
that turn from the truth.
Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
The PURE are those who are in THE FAITH.
The IMPURE are those giving heed to JEWISH FABLES.
Turning BACK to Jewish fables COULD NOT BE PURE.
Muthos 2. public speech, “m. andressi melēsei” Od.1.358; “muthoisin skoliois” Hes.Op.194
FABLES TO FOOL: Fābŭla , ae, f. fari,B. Of particular kinds of poetry.
1. Most freq., a dramatic poem, drama, play (syn.: “ludus, cantus, actio, etc.): in full, fabula scaenica,” “or, theatralis,” id. 14, 6, 20: “fabula ad actum scenarum composita, ”fabulam, quae versatur in tragoediis atque carminibus non a veritate modo [melod]
FABLES TO FOOL: Cantus , ūs, m. id., I. the production of melodious sound, a musical utterance or expression, either with voice or instrument; hence, song, singing, playing,
1. With the voice, a singing, song; in full, cantus vocum, Cic. Rosc. Am. 46, 134: “fit etiam saepe vocum gravitate et cantibus ut pellantur animi, etc.,
2. With instruments, a playing, music: “citharae,” “horribili stridebat tibia cantu,” Cat. 64, 264: “querulae tibiae, “lyrae,” Plin. 34, 8, 19, § 72: “tibicine
FABLES TO FOOL: Scaenĭcus (scen- ), a, um, adj., = skēnikos, I. of or belonging to the stage, scenic, dramatic, theatrical (class.) stage-plays, theatrical representations, “fabula,” a drama, Amm. 28, 1, 4: “organa,” Suet. Ner. 44: “coronae,” id. ib. 53: “habitus,” id. ib. 38: “gestus,” Cic. de Or. 3, 59, 220: “modulatio,” Quint. 11, 3, 57:
IF YOU REJECT BAPTISM YOU WILL NEVER RECEIVE A HOLY SPIRIT OR A PURE SPIRIT OR A GOOD CONSCIENCE AND IT IS A FACT THAT THE INSTRUMENTAL BANDITOS APPEAL TO JEWISH FABLES AS THEIR "PATTERN."
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did i say anyone is commanded to play a lyre? but you say everyone is commanded not to, though no scripture under any covenant ever said that.
what does it mean,
And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
(Colossians 3:23-24)
?
when you judge another man's worship by whether he plays a pipe organ or whether he speaks as atonally and a-meodic as possible, is that carnal or spiritual judgement?
does SeaBass dictate how to worship? is worship something we only do for 45 min on a sunday morning once a week?
i would worship the Lord forever, in all things!
Music is derived from mystery which means "to make the lambs dumb before the slaughter." It needs no proving that if the preacher speaks about himself and his opinions and the singers fabricate their own songs and present them with instrumental noise" someone DOES NOT WANT YOU to know anything. The elders as pastor-teachers were the gift of Christ in Ephesians 4 if you have APT ELDERS. Their first task is to excise the cunning craftsmen or sophists. Jesus said that God does not speak to the WISE or sophists. Sophists are self-speakers, singers, instrument players, actors or anything that hinders the command to PREACH the Word by READING the Word for Comfort and Doctrine intend to be CHAINED TO THE PULPIT to prevent anyone else from speaking. Paul said THEY LIE IN WAIT TO DECEIVE.
They are OF the World and Jesus doesn't pray for them. Jesus and His disciples are not OF the World.
Recorded history including the Jacob-cursed and God-abandoned Levites who were soothsayer-sorcerers with instruments and in fact all religious music has a gender challenged persona. That's why men and women flee when the men perform and the preacher boasts about USING women. Sorry bout that but you will find no historical exception
They are OF the World and Jesus doesn't pray for them. Jesus and His disciples are not OF the World.
Recorded history including the Jacob-cursed and God-abandoned Levites who were soothsayer-sorcerers with instruments and in fact all religious music has a gender challenged persona. That's why men and women flee when the men perform and the preacher boasts about USING women. Sorry bout that but you will find no historical exception
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So if there is no verse that says "do not play a lyre" then that supposedly allows the use of a lyre?
Is this the argument you are offering me? Really?
Jn 4:23,24 "But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."
True worshippers worship "in truth" What is truth? "Thy word is truth" Jn 17:17
So Seabass has no say as to how worship is to be done for God's word is the sole and final authority on that matter and it commands singing.
So the real question here is do you accept God's word as the sole and final authority on singing?
Is this the argument you are offering me? Really?
Jn 4:23,24 "But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."
True worshippers worship "in truth" What is truth? "Thy word is truth" Jn 17:17
So Seabass has no say as to how worship is to be done for God's word is the sole and final authority on that matter and it commands singing.
So the real question here is do you accept God's word as the sole and final authority on singing?
in other words, you can't explain why what was good in the eyes of the Lord before, and what will be good in the eyes of the Lord in the future is wicked in the present.
right?
we're under the law of grace. consider how we can eat bacon and it isn't a sin if we do it thankfully, and how circumcision of the body is nothing, but circumcision of the heart is everything.
whatever you do in service and devotion to the Lord, i will not condemn you for it. He said He is rightly worshiped in Spirit and in Truth. that is what is required, and what is not acceptable is the wrong spirit & falsehood. no one can stop the molecules of their body from vibrating, even in death -- let the sound of your own resonance be one of rejoicing!
how? in spirit and in truth!
listen to the earth itself! all God's creation rejoices before His coming with song & melody! even the stars themselves are echo chambers, enormous drums proclaiming the majesty of their Creator!
right?
we're under the law of grace. consider how we can eat bacon and it isn't a sin if we do it thankfully, and how circumcision of the body is nothing, but circumcision of the heart is everything.
whatever you do in service and devotion to the Lord, i will not condemn you for it. He said He is rightly worshiped in Spirit and in Truth. that is what is required, and what is not acceptable is the wrong spirit & falsehood. no one can stop the molecules of their body from vibrating, even in death -- let the sound of your own resonance be one of rejoicing!
how? in spirit and in truth!
listen to the earth itself! all God's creation rejoices before His coming with song & melody! even the stars themselves are echo chambers, enormous drums proclaiming the majesty of their Creator!
my heart is a beating drum and my lungs are wind instruments. the sinews of my arms and legs are plucked strings and my brain is an electronic waveform.
if none of that can be used to worship the one that created it, we may as well all up and die!
isn't it good that God sent His Son so that we can be made acceptable to Him??
you guys want to labor to put me under some law of blindness, but the more involved i've been in this thread, the more i've wanted to just rejoice and be glad with every tool imaginable, taking all in my arms reach and turning it into praise for the King of all Kings and Sustainer of the universe!
all the exasperation and sorrow these futile carnal & spiritually wicked arguments caused me are nothing - for that will to rejoice before Him i'm thankful! let all His children be full of gladness!
if none of that can be used to worship the one that created it, we may as well all up and die!
isn't it good that God sent His Son so that we can be made acceptable to Him??
you guys want to labor to put me under some law of blindness, but the more involved i've been in this thread, the more i've wanted to just rejoice and be glad with every tool imaginable, taking all in my arms reach and turning it into praise for the King of all Kings and Sustainer of the universe!
all the exasperation and sorrow these futile carnal & spiritually wicked arguments caused me are nothing - for that will to rejoice before Him i'm thankful! let all His children be full of gladness!
I said that the tribe of LEVI were Jacob cursed. Read Genesis 49. Jacob commanded that people NOT enter into covenant with the Levi tribe nor to attend their SERVICES.
When the people ROSE UP TO PLAY at Mount Sinai, the Levites jumped at the right to execute 3,000 of their brethren. Because of this, God commanded that the Levite stand guard at the Tabernacle and EXECUTE any unauthorized person or even a Levite who came near any presumed-holy thing or into a holy place.
When the elders fired God and demanded a King God understood that they wanted to WORSHIP like the nations: that's fine because at Mount Sinai God had sentenced the nation to Babylon. If you look at older illustrates you will see that the temple which God did not command was a ziggurat.
When the temple was built by Hiram the Masonic Architect with slave labor, the Levites were under the King and Commanders of the Army and not under the priests who had been IMPOSED. The command was that they STAND IN RANKS and make NOISE during the goat burning. The congregation in 2 Chronicles 29 did not included the godly people who attended synagogue. Again, they would execute any civillian who came near. During Solomon's dedication they were OUTSIDE THE GATES or walls.
The Spirit OF Christ in Isaiah 1 and Jeremiah 7 and Stephen in Acts 7 says that God did NOT command the temple: he permitted David a private TENT on Mount Zion.
The musical invaders use the LEVITES AS THEIR PATTERNS to say that God COMMANDED them to impose instruments: "a" spirit SPOKE to them.
Furthermore, Miriam and the Levites PROPHESIED but were not PROPHETS. This word means SOOTHSAYERS which is used interchangeably with SORCERERS. That's true because the singers, instrument players and craftsmen in Revelation 18 are called SORCERERS using the same term applied to the original Mother Sorceress at Babylon.
If you use the Levites as a LEGALISTIC PATTERN then Jacob warns you NOT to attend their services or enter into covenant with them.
All musical terms and names of instruments connect in one way or another with ENCHANTMENT and by people intending to fleece you.
It is a scientific fact that these "sounds" shut down the spiritual or rational mind and go right to the emotional side which is EASILY "burden laded" with spiritual anxiety created by religious rituals. That is why Jesus said that the kingdom does not come with observation; that means RELIGIOUS OBSERVATIONS. That is why He continued the quarantine enacted for the synagogue and invited us to come OUTside the camp and walls, suffer reproaches but REST and Come learn of men.
When the people ROSE UP TO PLAY at Mount Sinai, the Levites jumped at the right to execute 3,000 of their brethren. Because of this, God commanded that the Levite stand guard at the Tabernacle and EXECUTE any unauthorized person or even a Levite who came near any presumed-holy thing or into a holy place.
When the elders fired God and demanded a King God understood that they wanted to WORSHIP like the nations: that's fine because at Mount Sinai God had sentenced the nation to Babylon. If you look at older illustrates you will see that the temple which God did not command was a ziggurat.
When the temple was built by Hiram the Masonic Architect with slave labor, the Levites were under the King and Commanders of the Army and not under the priests who had been IMPOSED. The command was that they STAND IN RANKS and make NOISE during the goat burning. The congregation in 2 Chronicles 29 did not included the godly people who attended synagogue. Again, they would execute any civillian who came near. During Solomon's dedication they were OUTSIDE THE GATES or walls.
The Spirit OF Christ in Isaiah 1 and Jeremiah 7 and Stephen in Acts 7 says that God did NOT command the temple: he permitted David a private TENT on Mount Zion.
The musical invaders use the LEVITES AS THEIR PATTERNS to say that God COMMANDED them to impose instruments: "a" spirit SPOKE to them.
Furthermore, Miriam and the Levites PROPHESIED but were not PROPHETS. This word means SOOTHSAYERS which is used interchangeably with SORCERERS. That's true because the singers, instrument players and craftsmen in Revelation 18 are called SORCERERS using the same term applied to the original Mother Sorceress at Babylon.
If you use the Levites as a LEGALISTIC PATTERN then Jacob warns you NOT to attend their services or enter into covenant with them.
All musical terms and names of instruments connect in one way or another with ENCHANTMENT and by people intending to fleece you.
It is a scientific fact that these "sounds" shut down the spiritual or rational mind and go right to the emotional side which is EASILY "burden laded" with spiritual anxiety created by religious rituals. That is why Jesus said that the kingdom does not come with observation; that means RELIGIOUS OBSERVATIONS. That is why He continued the quarantine enacted for the synagogue and invited us to come OUTside the camp and walls, suffer reproaches but REST and Come learn of men.
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