Dr. Charles Stanley

[PennEd]

Paul is quoting the sentiment of Deuteronomy chapter 30 in Romans 10:9...

Deu 30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
Deu 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
Deu 30:12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deu 30:13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deu 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
Deu 30:15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;


Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

When Paul is speaking about confession and belief it is related to the heart as opposed to a mere mental assertion or outward act. This is why Paul makes statements like this...

Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Authentic confession and belief in Paul's mind involves the turning from rebellion to obedience. Hence deeds actually prove repentance (Act 26:20).


Preachers like Charles Stanley teach the repentance/conversion/new birth within the context of a "mental assertion being made" and an "abstract judicial reprieve" being granted and thus those whom are born again need not have "deeds that prove repentance" because in his mind the deeds is something that takes place later on over a period of time and are therefore not actually necessary (as it relates directly to redemption).

The deception here is how salvation eliminates the change of heart described in the Bible where the service of evil ceases. A pure heart is equivalent to loving God with all one's heart soul and mind and loving one's neighbour as oneself. Thus a redeemed individual does not do the right thing due to rules and regulations but rather due to the manifestation of the Spirit of God within (which is no longer being subdued by a rebellious will).

I agree to an extent that deeds can be EVIDENCE of a changed heart through the Holy Spirit,But does not always have to be for salvation. Once again I'd use the example of the thief on the cross who JESUS PROMISED would be with Him in paradise. What "deed" beyond BELIEVING in Jesus did he perform? Was he baptized? Or are we going to just chalk him up as an exception?

Also, you did not address the point i made regarding Jesus' analogy to Moses raising up the Serpent staff in the wilderness. What "deeds" beyond BELIEVING did the sinful Israelites do to attain the cure and life from being bit by the fiery snakes because of their sin?
JESUS HIMSELF USES THIS ANALOGY

 

[RedTent]

You should study the bible more. Especially if you are going to attack someone.

1 Corinthians 10:2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,

1 Corinthians 10 10 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3 They all ate the same spiritual food 4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1 Corinthians 10 10 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3 They all ate the same spiritual food 4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

And this proves me wrong??

My point was they were baptized INTO moses. WHich is what was said. I was using the verse to prove that not all baptisms were in water.

And I said just as they were baptized into moses (moses being the head) we are baptized into Christ.

Why are you so hatefull to me you think you have to prove me wrong in anything?? Your making yourself look bad.

1 Corinthians 10:2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,

Were they baptized into moses or not? I guess paul lied!

 

[svedbygrace]

I am not a baptist as Charles Stanley is, but he said a lot of things this morning that made so much sense and touched my heart as I was not able to attend services. Sometimes, messages come through when we need to hear them putting aside denominations.

He is a false teacher ! I use to go to his church, he does not preach the True Gospel !

 

[VCO]

And this proves me wrong??

My point was they were baptized INTO moses. WHich is what was said. I was using the verse to prove that not all baptisms were in water.

And I said just as they were baptized into moses (moses being the head) we are baptized into Christ.

Why are you so hatefull to me you think you have to prove me wrong in anything?? Your making yourself look bad.

1 Corinthians 10:2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,

Were they baptized into moses or not? I guess paul lied!

It is not quite what you seem to be implying:

1 Cor. 10:2
Not only that, but all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. To be baptized into Moses means to be identified with him and to acknowledge his leadership.
Believer's Bible Commentary: A Thorough, Yet Easy-to-Read Bible Commentary That Turns Complicated Theology Into Practical Understanding.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1 Cor. 10:2
Third, the Israelites were all baptized into Moses, that is, united with their spiritual head, God’s servant, who became the object of their trust.
The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1 Cor. 10:1-4
In verses 1-4 Paul emphasizes the oneness of Israel as a corporate community and the commonness of their experiences under Moses' leadership. All is used five times in those four verses to indicate that oneness in experience and blessing.
. . .
The Exodus did not represent the spiritual salvation of God's people. Men have always been spiritually saved only by personal faith in God.
. . .
Ordinarily baptism refers to the ceremony in which water is used to symbolize cleansing from sin. Many Christians, therefore, interpret and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea as a reference to this ceremony. They take it to mean that the people were sprinkled by rain from the cloud or immersed when passing through the sea. But the pillar of cloud that guided the Israelites by day was the Shekinah cloud, the cloud of God's presence, which at night turned into a pillar of fire, not a cloud of water. And the sea was parted so that the people could walk through on dry land (Ex. 14:16).
The basic Christian significance for baptism is identification with Christ. As Paul explains later in Romans 6:1-10, water baptism is an outward sign of spiritual union with Christ in His death and resurrection. Water baptism symbolizes the baptism believers have already experienced. When we trust in Jesus Christ we are baptized into Him, identified with Him, made one with Him. "For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ" (Gal. 3:27). It is that idea of spiritual identification, rather than the physical ceremony, that I believe Paul has in mind in the present passage. The Israelites were baptized into Moses in the sense that they identified with him as the Lord's appointed leader over them. There was solidarity between the people and Moses.

MacArthur New Testament Commentary, The - MacArthur New Testament Commentary – 1 Corinthians.

I absolutely believe that the Spiritual Immersion in to the Spiritual Body of our Messiah the LORD Jesus Christ, is quite LITERAL, and NOT just symbolism; and without it you are not saved.

1 Corinthians 12:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

. . .

Parenthetically, it should be noted that Paul is not speaking here of water baptism. Water baptism is an outward, physical ordinance believers submit to themselves and which is performed by other believers, in obedience to Christ's command (Matt. 28:19; cf. Acts 2:38). Water baptism plays no part in conversion, but is a testimony to the church and to the world of conversion that has already taken place inwardly. Spirit baptism, on the other hand, is entirely the work of God and is virtually synonymous with salvation. The term baptizō ("to baptize") is used in the New Testament to refer to figurative immersion in trouble (Matt. 20:22-23, kjv) or to spiritual immersion (Rom. 6:3-5) in Christ's death and resurrection. As one can be immersed in water, so a believer is immersed spiritually into the Body of Christ.
It should also be noted that the phrase "baptism of the Holy Spirit" is not a correct translation of any passage in the New Testament, including this one. En heni pneumati (by one Spirit) can mean "by or with one Spirit." Because believers are baptized by Christ, it is therefore best to translate this phrase as "with one Spirit." It is not the Holy Spirit's baptism but Christ's baptism with the Holy Spirit that gives us new life and places us into the Body when we trust in Christ.

MacArthur New Testament Commentary, The - MacArthur New Testament Commentary – 1 Corinthians.

 

[Shava]

When a person reads the bible their told what to do to be saved, which is being baptized. All of these false teachers like Joel olsteen tells you to go and find you a nice church and place your membership instead of telling the people what they need to do to be saved, which is baptism. Billy Graham is probably the worst in doing this.

 

[VCO]

Lady? Hmm

In the Book of Revelation, the apostle John had seen certain visions that he was to record to give to the seven churches of Christ spread across Asia Minor.

In Revelation 22:18-19 he wrote,

“I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”
In the very last book of the Bible, we read a warning against adding to or taking away from God’s Word. We see such warning found throughout the Bible. Are we heeding these warnings, which are specific commands that tell us not to add to or take away from God’s Word? We need to stay far away from such things.



In Deuteronomy 5:32 and Deuteronomy 17:11,17 we see that we are not to turn to the right or to the left. Joshua 1:7 teaches:


“Only be strong and very courageous, that you may observe to do according to all the law which Moses My servant commanded you; do not turn from it to the right hand or to the left, that you may prosper wherever you go.”
We are not to turn to the left or the right, but are instead to walk the straight and narrow path (Mt. 7:13-14).

A person can go too far to the right or the left. That is why we have to walk the narrow path. We must “walk in the light as He is in the light” (1 Jn. 1:7) so that we do not go off or add commands to God’s Word, and so that we do not “loose” God’s commands. We must make sure that we are not going to either the right or to the left. Ecclesiastes 3:14 says, “I know that whatever God does, It shall be forever. Nothing can be add*ed to it, and nothing taken from it. God does it, that men should fear before Him.” The principle here is that we must not add to or take away from God’s Word.


In the New Testament, Paul writing to the church at Corinth, which had a lot of problems. There was a lot of division in the church in Corinth (1 Cor. 1). There were some people who wanted to follow the person who had baptized them. Paul told them not to do that. How can problems be resolved so that we can all be unified? In 1 Corinthians 1:10 Paul said that we are all to speak the same thing, be of the same mind, and be of the same judgment. Some people might think that is impossible. But in 1 Corinthians 4:6 Paul provided the way to carry out that command when he wrote, “Do not think or go beyond that which is written.” There was a problem in the church in Corinth (or the problem could have arisen) of people being puffed up.

Paul told them not to think or go beyond that which is written. People might say about something, “I know the Bible doesn’t say anything about it, but I don’t have a problem with it.” If someone has such an attitude, he is thinking or going beyond what is written. The Bible condemns that. We must not do such a thing. When do problems come into play? It is when people leave the Word of God, or add to it or take away from it. Paul says that we are not to go beyond what is written. If people would obey this command, it alone would clear up a lot of confusion that people have. This principle teaches us that we are not to add to or take away from the Word of God. Amen!

I totally agree that we are not to add or subtract from the Word of GOD, HOWEVER, giving a name to a local Church or the Group (Denomination) they belong to; is not adding to the Word of GOD.

Just like Paul naming these two groups here is NOT adding to the Word of GOD:

Acts 17:11 (NIV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

In fact we have a Denomination today called the Berean Church. Here is the website of one of their Churches: ​Berean Church 12527 County Road 37 Sterling

 

[alan68]

God does not save people who say, “Heavenly Father, I know that I am a sinner and that I deserve to go to hell. I believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross for my sins. I do now receive him as my Lord and personal Savior. I promise to serve you to the best of my ability. Please save me. In Jesus’ name, Amen.”

God saves people who know they are a sinner and deserve eternal separation from God, that is, hell.

God saves people who also believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross for their sins.

God saves people who also receive Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior.

God saves people who do all of this because they know that they CANNOT serve Him with their own ability at all.


The exact words are not as important as the attitude of the heart.

When I was 6 years old, I attended a vacation Bible school meeting and saw the children's minister inviting a group of kids into a back room. Wanting to be included, I asked to join them. He told us to bow our heads and close our eyes (nobody looking around!) Then he spoon-fed us a sinner's prayer very like the example given above. When we left the room, everyone lavished me with adoration for "having new life in Christ!" I remember feeling like, "Funny...I don't FEEL any different..."

For the next four years, I did not strive to live a Christian life. I didn't kill anybody or get into drugs, but I did have a serious passive/aggressive problem with authority and intense hatred of school and schoolwork. I also developed the most ridiculous fascination with swear words (and I didn't even know what half of them meant.) When I was 9, I came down with the flu, followed by bronchial pneumonia. I was thrilled to not be in school. I remember saying these chilling words: "I would rather die than go back to that stupid school!" Thank You, Almighty God, for not taking me up on that challenge!
When I was 10, things came to a head, and I was in more trouble with school than I had ever been before. I needed to be sure I was saved, because I could see I wasn't acting like I was. So I prayed this sinner's prayer:

"Dear Lord, help me to be a good boy and do right, and...Please come into my heart and save me, just in case I'm not saved."

You will not find this prayer given as an example in any Chick comic or Gospel tract, but it worked. I DID feel different. I really felt bad about my sins without having to wait for the punishment my parents would give me. I felt a desire to do right just because it was right, not because of what it would benefit me. That's how I knew how I was saved.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. - 2 Cor 5:17

We do not, as I am so often told, think we don't have to do good works to be saved.
We know that we CANNOT do good works to be saved!

Whoever is not truly saved doesn't even have it in him to do good works just because it is right.
Whoever is truly saved in this way will not go on sinning unrepentantly, because he has changed. A change that only God Himself can bring about. Now, there will be a constant struggle against sin as long as we are in this flesh, but the struggle is all the more proof of our salvation. If you're not saved, there will be no struggle - you'll just go ahead and sin.

I waxed longer than I expected to, but I'll close with this.

God is perfect.
Everything God does is perfect.
God loves perfectly.
God forgives perfectly.
God saves perfectly.

 

[VCO]

When a person reads the bible their told what to do to be saved, which is being baptized. All of these false teachers like Joel olsteen tells you to go and find you a nice church and place your membership instead of telling the people what they need to do to be saved, which is baptism. Billy Graham is probably the worst in doing this.

AGAIN, it is spiritual Baptism into the Spiritual Body of Christ that saves,

NOT climbing into a Baptistry, which is a good work; but we are not saved by good works.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NIV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not by works, so that no one can boast.

Ephesians 2:4-5 (NIV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved.

GRACE is receiving what CANNOT BE EARNED BY GOOD WORKS.

MERCY is not receiving what we do deserve.

Titus 3:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

Galatians 2:16 (NKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

I repeat, climbing into a Baptistry is a WORK. YES it is an act of obedience and all true Christians will want to obey; but salvation takes place the moment we first believe, NOT later when we get baptized in water. It is that moment we first believed that the Holy Spirit baptized us into the Body of Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

When was the thief on the Cross baptized in water?

When was Abraham baptized in water?

THAT IS THE BAPTISM THAT SAVES, our immersion into the Spiritual Body of Christ.

 

[VCO]

God does not save people who say, “Heavenly Father, I know that I am a sinner and that I deserve to go to hell. I believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross for my sins. I do now receive him as my Lord and personal Savior. I promise to serve you to the best of my ability. Please save me. In Jesus’ name, Amen.”

God saves people who know they are a sinner and deserve eternal separation from God, that is, hell.

God saves people who also believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross for their sins.

God saves people who also receive Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior.

God saves people who do all of this because they know that they CANNOT serve Him with their own ability at all.


The exact words are not as important as the attitude of the heart.

When I was 6 years old, I attended a vacation Bible school meeting and saw the children's minister inviting a group of kids into a back room. Wanting to be included, I asked to join them. He told us to bow our heads and close our eyes (nobody looking around!) Then he spoon-fed us a sinner's prayer very like the example given above. When we left the room, everyone lavished me with adoration for "having new life in Christ!" I remember feeling like, "Funny...I don't FEEL any different..."

For the next four years, I did not strive to live a Christian life. I didn't kill anybody or get into drugs, but I did have a serious passive/aggressive problem with authority and intense hatred of school and schoolwork. I also developed the most ridiculous fascination with swear words (and I didn't even know what half of them meant.) When I was 9, I came down with the flu, followed by bronchial pneumonia. I was thrilled to not be in school. I remember saying these chilling words: "I would rather die than go back to that stupid school!" Thank You, Almighty God, for not taking me up on that challenge!
When I was 10, things came to a head, and I was in more trouble with school than I had ever been before. I needed to be sure I was saved, because I could see I wasn't acting like I was. So I prayed this sinner's prayer:

"Dear Lord, help me to be a good boy and do right, and...Please come into my heart and save me, just in case I'm not saved."

You will not find this prayer given as an example in any Chick comic or Gospel tract, but it worked. I DID feel different. I really felt bad about my sins without having to wait for the punishment my parents would give me. I felt a desire to do right just because it was right, not because of what it would benefit me. That's how I knew how I was saved.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. - 2 Cor 5:17

We do not, as I am so often told, think we don't have to do good works to be saved.
We know that we CANNOT do good works to be saved!

Whoever is not truly saved doesn't even have it in him to do good works just because it is right.
Whoever is truly saved in this way will not go on sinning unrepentantly, because he has changed. A change that only God Himself can bring about. Now, there will be a constant struggle against sin as long as we are in this flesh, but the struggle is all the more proof of our salvation. If you're not saved, there will be no struggle - you'll just go ahead and sin.

I waxed longer than I expected to, but I'll close with this.

God is perfect.
Everything God does is perfect.
God loves perfectly.
God forgives perfectly.
God saves perfectly.

The problem with modern day liberal theology associated with the word "BELIEVE"; is they do not use the same intense definition of the word as it held at the time of Christ. Two thousand years ago the word "BELIEVE" could best be explained in this manor. This explanation comes from Dr. Zola Levitt.

If two Jews walked up to a frozen over lake in early winter,
and Jew number 1 said to Jew number 2,

"Do you believe the ice is thick enough to walk on yet?"

And then Jew number 1 responded, "Yes, I believe it is thick enough to walk on."
And then Jew number 1 then reached out with one foot and began testing the thickness of the ice.

Jew number 2 would shout, "LIAR! If you really believed it was thick enough walk on, you would have boldly stepped out there and put your whole weight on what you claimed to believe."

How vastly different is that than the way we frequently use the word "BELIEVE" in English today. In other words, if one is NOT willing to put his whole weight on JESUS as LORD, totally trusting HIM to run his life, then that person does not really BELIEVE according to how the word "BELIEVE" was used two thousand years ago.

1 John 2:4-5 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments (submit to His Lordship), is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
[SUP]5 [/SUP] but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:

Matthew 7:21-23 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
[SUP]23 [/SUP] "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you
(that inner personal LOVE relationship that brings us
to where we willingly submit to His Lordship);
DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.

That word "keep" is in the Greek perfect tense, implying an ongoing lifestyle of striving to KEEP.
Are we perfect at it, no! However, we will get better at it, as we mature spiritually, and a true Christian's lifestyle is characterized by continually striving to KEEP His commands.

 

[Skinski7]

I agree to an extent that deeds can be EVIDENCE of a changed heart through the Holy Spirit,But does not always have to be for salvation. Once again I'd use the example of the thief on the cross who JESUS PROMISED would be with Him in paradise. What "deed" beyond BELIEVING in Jesus did he perform? Was he baptized? Or are we going to just chalk him up as an exception?

Also, you did not address the point i made regarding Jesus' analogy to Moses raising up the Serpent staff in the wilderness. What "deeds" beyond BELIEVING did the sinful Israelites do to attain the cure and life from being bit by the fiery snakes because of their sin?
JESUS HIMSELF USES THIS ANALOGY

The thief confessed Jesus which was a deed. The issue is the heart and whether one is restrained upon a cross is really immaterial.

Paul was not speaking to those who were restrained on crosses when he said "let your deeds prove your repentance." His sentiment was simply that if the repentance is real there will be a change in conduct. When Jesus would say "come follow me" it implied a walk in a certain direction be taken. One could not defy Jesus and follow Jesus at the same time, thus a genuine repentance is proven by deeds.

Preacher like Charles Stanley teach that the deeds change over a long period of time thus, in their view, deeds do not prove repentance but are rather a gradual result of sanctification. There is no genuine proof of repentance in the preaching of men like Charles Stanley, if there was they would not make the statements like I quoted above. Their message caters for ongoing vile conduct after salvation.

It is pretty simple really. Salvation either involves a total transformation of the heart or it does not. Men like Charles Stanley teach that it does not, in their mind salvation is purely forensic in nature. Thus one can be saved and still engaged in murder, lust, adultery, drunkenness or whatever sin one wishes to pick. They preach the service of two masters and deny that "obedience to the truth" is necessary. It is a very simple yet subtle deception. It is a deception which tickles the ears of many people who do not want to forsake sinful conduct and yield to God.

The example of the brazen serpent is beside the point. One cannot take one example in the Bible and claim it cancels out something else. The Bible is a harmonious whole, here a little and there a little. Jesus Himself preached repent and believe, Jesus Himself preached strive to enter in at the strait gate and narrow way which leads to life, Jesus Himself preached that it is the doers of the Father's will who will inherit the kingdom, Jesus preached that if we abide in Him and keep His commandments then He will also abide in us. Now obviously we can ignore all those teachings of Jesus and only focus on excising "believe" and "confess" verses from their larger context, but in doing so are we really in harmony with the truth?

 

[MsLimpet]

I totally agree that we are not to add or subtract from the Word of GOD, HOWEVER, giving a name to a local Church or the Group (Denomination) they belong to; is not adding to the Word of GOD.

Just like Paul naming these two groups here is NOT adding to the Word of GOD:

Acts 17:11 (NIV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

In fact we have a Denomination today called the Berean Church. Here is the website of one of their Churches: ​Berean Church 12527 County Road 37 Sterling

Where is the Berean church named in the bible?

 

[Timeline]

The only problem I have with him is his belief that you just have to call on the Lord and you will be saved. That is false teaching.

I have heard him say something like that too. But I did hear a sermon where he did say that you should be baptized.

I am not Baptist either, but I enjoy Dr. Stanley as well. I work 12a-8a and I try to listen to him at 6am every morning that I get the chance.

 

[MsLimpet]

I have heard him say something like that too. But I did hear a sermon where he did say that you should be baptized.

Yes, I heard him say that a few times...does not preach too much on the subject but does at times deliver a good message. Nice avatar picture!

 

[Timeline]

My dad used to constantly watch a certain Christian TV station and what I saw on that Christian channel kept me from becoming a Christian for years. I wonder if people realize how incredibly damaging some of that stuff is. Anyway, the one minister that my dad watched who didn't seem phony/money grubbing/weird to me was Charles Stanley. I wish there were more ministers like him on TV.

Yes, it is appalling that many "preachers" cause people to see God and christians as selfish, money-loving hypocrites. When you look into the private lives of many "christian preachers" you can see that they do not have God in their hearts at all. I know that there are some that cannot complete a sermon without mentioning that you should give money to God, but what they really mean is to give money to them.

 

[Timeline]

I was raised Lutheran but now I attend a non-denominational Bible Church, and I too thought there was only one baptism described in the Bible and that was Christian Water Baptism, but after I started really studying the Bible, I discovered that there was also spiritual Baptism (immersion) into the Spiritual Body of Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:13 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

When was the thief on the cross baptized into Christian water Baptism?
When was Abraham baptized into Christian water Baptism?
When was Enoch and Elijah baptized into Christian water Baptism?
When were any of the Old Testament saints baptized into Christian water Baptism?
When were any of those killed on 9-11 who received Christ as Lord before the building fell on them or the plane crashed, baptized into Christian water Baptism?

YET EVERYONE OF THEM WERE IMMERSED (BAPTIZED) INTO THE SPIRITUAL BODY OF CHRIST
AND THAT VERSE ABOVE SAYS all.

Baptism INTO the spiritual body of Christ takes place at the same instant that genuine saving FAITH is given from GOD by the Holy Spirit, bringing your once dead human spirit to eternal life.

Christian water baptism is part of our Christian WALK after we are saved, and should be the first step in that Christian WALK. Yes, immersion (baptism) into the spiritual body of Christ, of which HE is head (submission to HIS LORDSHIP), produces a desire to follow in Obedience and submit to Christian Water Baptism, but that is NOT the Baptism that SAVES ALL TRUE BELIEVERS; it is the Spiritual Baptism into the Body of Christ.

Colossians 1:18 (NKJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know the apostles (except for Saul/Paul) were not baptized. The closest thing that I have found is when Jesus washed their feet. I do believe what you said. I believe that we should be moved to be baptized in water but it is the baptism in the Spirit that saves us.

 

[pastac]

MsLimpet It sure would do you a bit of good to be reminded of scripture when the Lord used a donkey to relay a word! Not that Dr. Stanley is a donkey or even close that is not the point the point being he sure is a good teacher and God uses him to rely his word effectivlely beyond denomination just as he did that donkey!

 

[MsLimpet]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know the apostles (except for Saul/Paul) were not baptized. The closest thing that I have found is when Jesus washed their feet. I do believe what you said. I believe that we should be moved to be baptized in water but it is the baptism in the Spirit that saves us.

And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord Acts 22:16 (KJV)

After instructing Paul as he was commissioned to do, Ananias encouraged him to do what the Lord commanded him to do; he was encouraged to do this immediately, he should not tarry or delay. He is now given more definite instruction as to what he should do. Paul was commanded to arise, and "be baptized."

 

[pastac]

Yes, it is appalling that many "preachers" cause people to see God and christians as selfish, money-loving hypocrites. When you look into the private lives of many "christian preachers" you can see that they do not have God in their hearts at all. I know that there are some that cannot complete a sermon without mentioning that you should give money to God, but what they really mean is to give money to them.

Even if true it is not fair to clump all or many ministers this way because just as many are not his way if not more. The bible teaches us that we have wheat and tare growing together but that God will do the seperating not us. It also teaches if we find one at fault what we should do. And the last thing we should do is write about if we haven't talked to them about it that seems hypocritical that one would point out these things yet do nothing scriptural about if. If so I stand corrected. If not I stand by my word.

 

[pastac]

I would never talk about any of Gods servants by name that is not Godly at all!