Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship?
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MsLimpet
Guest
You are incorrect. We are born again to obey God's command. Christ died for our sins, but as sinners we must repent, confess and be baptized.
In Romans 6 said that after we obey a FORM of the work of Christ we are FREE from Sin.
The work of Jesus is the TUPOS or Type, a pattern intended to be obeyed.
ANTI-TUPOS is the instrumental means that Jesus gave us in order to be FREE FROM SIN. No one is said to be free from sin simply because they believe that Jesus existed.
Believeth is PISTIS which in the text means to trust in or COMPLY with what we believe.
Those who believe and trust by complying in baptism are those SAID TO BE SAVED.
Believeth not is APISTOS which means a person in revolt or treacherous. They say "I will NOT comply" because YOU cannot save me.
Those who are APISTOS and will not comply are DAMNED.
Christ the Spirit defined baptism in Acts 1 which is almost identical to Mark 16. The eunuch had with him an ISAIAH scroll and as soon as he knew that Jesus was that promised Messiah he REQUESTED to be baptized. A Dead Sea copy exists which might date a hundred or two hundered years before Christ.
ANTI means INSTEAD OF: we can obey the pattern to be imitated and be free from sin OR we can die on the cross for our own sins without any effect. That is why baptism is not a work of the law or work of self-righteousness. It pure grace.
The massed multitude which fights against baptism trust in their OWN "belief" as having power to let them reject the direct command of Jesus as his virtual last command.
M
MsLimpet
Guest
Try this paragraph: I don't know how to make it clearer.
In Romans 6 said that after we obey a FORM of the work of Christ we are FREE from Sin.
The work of Jesus is the TUPOS or Type, a pattern intended to be obeyed.
ANTI-TUPOS is the instrumental means that Jesus gave us in order to be FREE FROM SIN. We are baptized FOR or in order to the remission of sins. No one is said to be free from sin simply because they believe that Jesus existed.
In Romans 6 said that after we obey a FORM of the work of Christ we are FREE from Sin.
The work of Jesus is the TUPOS or Type, a pattern intended to be obeyed.
ANTI-TUPOS is the instrumental means that Jesus gave us in order to be FREE FROM SIN. We are baptized FOR or in order to the remission of sins. No one is said to be free from sin simply because they believe that Jesus existed.
M
MsLimpet
Guest
I am not understanding you.
Jesus said that true worshippers who please God must worship God in spirit and in truth (Jn. 4:24). We must serve and worship God acceptably with reverence and godly fear (Heb. 12:28).
does it not occur to you that it was IDOLATRY in the form of the golden calf, not the use of music, that God was upset about?
you have read the prophets & the law where music is NEVER forbidden, but idolatry is continually and expressly forbidden?
tell me, when Moses came down and found the Israelites in IDOLATRY, did he grind up lyres, lutes and flutes and cause those that were in idolatry to eat them?
no, but he did so with the golden calf, which was "the work of their hands" which they worshiped.
why doesn't it bother you that they were worshiping an idol? why is it more important to you that they might have had a tambourine? don't you think that's 'telling' ?
we already know you are a madman. you don't have to get a jab in at Obama in the middle of this lol. but you know, medicare has been around a long time and it's much more 'socialist' than ... nevermind we don't need to be talking about this.
back to the Bible!
bear with me, because this is hard for you, i know; it takes the smallest bit of reading comprehension to understand:
God gave the Israelites up to idolatry UNTIL the days of David - and David found grace & favour in the eyes of the Lord.
if anything, this text from Acts gives more weight to the Lord being pleased with musical worship than anything else - because David (who found GRACE & FAVOUR in the eyes of the LORD) introduced it. is this why David is called the man after God's own heart? there is more of course, to the heart of David, but the Word of God is very clear about this.
so my statement still stands. either you are a liar, or Stephen is.
when did the Shekinah descend on the temple? it is recorded and written in the book; after a ceremony of dedication that included playing of musical instruments. now if the Lord God hated instrumental music, would He have pitched His tent in their midst after that kind of display?
of course not.
you have been shown many many times in this thread and in others where you are in obvious error.
every time you have completely ignored it and came back quoting more pagans and abusing more lexicons and blaspheming more of God's saints.
how long will you resist the Spirit of Truth, oh stiff-necked man?
and when are you going to tell me how it is that you rejoice?
i say again,
rejoice evermore!
(1 Thessalonians 5:16)
now magnify the Lord! tell me how it is you rejoice!
Baptism speak of DEATH and BURIAL: you do not bury people ALREADY resurrected.
People who are dead in trespasses and sins are dead in their OWN sins. Being alienated from God does not mean UNCONSIOUS.
God forbid. How shall we, that are DEAD TO SIN to sin, live any longer therein? Rom 6:2 Know ye not, that so many of us
..........as were baptized into Jesus Christ
..........were baptized into his death? Rom 6:3
Jesus was dead when he went into the tomb.
He came OUT of the tomb alive.
Therefore in this type or "pattern meant to be imitated" Jesus was not alive before he was buried.
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:
that LIKE AS Christ was RAISED up from the dead by the glory of the Father,
even so we also should walk in newness of LIFE. Rom 6:4
This "baptism" is a LIKENESS of Jesus being PLANTED into the tomb. We are not baptized INTO the holy spirit.
For if we have beenplanted together in the likeness (Form) of his death,
we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Rom 6:5
Baptism of the Spirit was a sign of judgment against the Jews whom John identified as a generation of vipers: Jesus transferred His Spirit or Mind in a face-to-face teaching of WORDS to his selected Apostles.
They gave us the Word as Spirit and Life because Paul said that he MINISTERED the Spirit by PREACHING.
Baptism of Spirit and fire was a promise and a threat: it is not something you can obey:
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey,
..........his servants ye are to whom ye obey;
..........whether of sin unto death,
..........or of obedience unto righteousness? Rom 6:16
But God be thanked,
..........that ye were the servants of sin,
..........but ye have obeyed from the heart
..........that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Ro.6:17
Forma
2. An outline, plan, design (of an architect, etc.)
3. A model after which any thing is made, a pattern, stamp, last (of a shoemaker), etc.: “utendum plane sermone, ut numo, cui publica forma est,” Quint. 1, 6, 3:
4. A mould which gives form to something: “(caseus) vel manu figuratur vel buxeis formis exprimitur,
Doctrina I. teaching, instruction (class.; cf.: litterae, artes, disciplina, praecepta, scientia, humanitas).
Being THENmade free from sin,
..........ye became the servants of righteousness. Rom 6:18
Libero release from slavery.
(a). With ab: “teque item ab eo vindico ac libero,” Cic. Q. Fr. 3, 1: “se a Venere,” to release one's self from one's duty to Venus, id. Div. in Caecil. 17, 53.—
B. In partic.
1. To absolve or acquit in a court of justice (syn.: “absolvo, solvo): aliquem, opp. condemnare,” Cic. Clu. 22, 60: “aliquem crimine aliquo,” Cic. Verr. 2, 2, 29, § 71: liberatur Milo, non eo consilio profectus esse, is acquitted of the charge of having undertaken a journey with the design,
Fab. 257: “angustias freti,” Front. Strat. 1, 4, 13: “limen,” Petr. 136.— 3. Templa liberata, freed from buildings that obstructed the view, i. e. having a free prospect, Cic. Leg. 2, 8, 21.
No one is said to have sins remitted other than when they OBEY that form or pattern which can be IMITATED.
People who are dead in trespasses and sins are dead in their OWN sins. Being alienated from God does not mean UNCONSIOUS.
God forbid. How shall we, that are DEAD TO SIN to sin, live any longer therein? Rom 6:2 Know ye not, that so many of us
..........as were baptized into Jesus Christ
..........were baptized into his death? Rom 6:3
Jesus was dead when he went into the tomb.
He came OUT of the tomb alive.
Therefore in this type or "pattern meant to be imitated" Jesus was not alive before he was buried.
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:
that LIKE AS Christ was RAISED up from the dead by the glory of the Father,
even so we also should walk in newness of LIFE. Rom 6:4
This "baptism" is a LIKENESS of Jesus being PLANTED into the tomb. We are not baptized INTO the holy spirit.
For if we have beenplanted together in the likeness (Form) of his death,
we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Rom 6:5
Baptism of the Spirit was a sign of judgment against the Jews whom John identified as a generation of vipers: Jesus transferred His Spirit or Mind in a face-to-face teaching of WORDS to his selected Apostles.
They gave us the Word as Spirit and Life because Paul said that he MINISTERED the Spirit by PREACHING.
Baptism of Spirit and fire was a promise and a threat: it is not something you can obey:
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey,
..........his servants ye are to whom ye obey;
..........whether of sin unto death,
..........or of obedience unto righteousness? Rom 6:16
But God be thanked,
..........that ye were the servants of sin,
..........but ye have obeyed from the heart
..........that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Ro.6:17
Forma
2. An outline, plan, design (of an architect, etc.)
3. A model after which any thing is made, a pattern, stamp, last (of a shoemaker), etc.: “utendum plane sermone, ut numo, cui publica forma est,” Quint. 1, 6, 3:
4. A mould which gives form to something: “(caseus) vel manu figuratur vel buxeis formis exprimitur,
Doctrina I. teaching, instruction (class.; cf.: litterae, artes, disciplina, praecepta, scientia, humanitas).
Being THENmade free from sin,
..........ye became the servants of righteousness. Rom 6:18
Libero release from slavery.
(a). With ab: “teque item ab eo vindico ac libero,” Cic. Q. Fr. 3, 1: “se a Venere,” to release one's self from one's duty to Venus, id. Div. in Caecil. 17, 53.—
B. In partic.
1. To absolve or acquit in a court of justice (syn.: “absolvo, solvo): aliquem, opp. condemnare,” Cic. Clu. 22, 60: “aliquem crimine aliquo,” Cic. Verr. 2, 2, 29, § 71: liberatur Milo, non eo consilio profectus esse, is acquitted of the charge of having undertaken a journey with the design,
Fab. 257: “angustias freti,” Front. Strat. 1, 4, 13: “limen,” Petr. 136.— 3. Templa liberata, freed from buildings that obstructed the view, i. e. having a free prospect, Cic. Leg. 2, 8, 21.
No one is said to have sins remitted other than when they OBEY that form or pattern which can be IMITATED.
Christ in the prophets warned about the Lying Pen of the Scribes in their writing about the Temple: He called the Scribes, hypocrites by quoting Ezekiel 33 who named self-speakers for hire (hirelings), singers and instrument players. ALL national histories would include the Civil-Military-Clergy complex in opposition to the Spiritual people taught by Christ in the Prophets but NEVER the kings. The Patriarchs or first born sons led the tribes until the fatal fall into instrumental idolatry at Mount Sinai; then and later God GAVE THEM KINGS IN HIS ANGER to carry out the captivity and death sentence. Those OF the world will use the Worship of the Starry host and reject the Creator of the Hosts. Sorry bout that.
NO historic scholar failed to read Isaiah and Jeremiah to have the testimony of Christ that God did not COMMAND king, kingdom, temple, animal sacrifices or the Jacob-cursed and God-abandoned Levites as soothsayers to stand in ranks and warning people that they would be executed if they came inside the gates. Here is a more modern scholar who missed preach. Burton Coffman notes that.
The great Cambridge scholar, Henry McKeating, has the following comment on this passage from Hosea:
"Hosea is not only antagonistic to the northern kings but to the monarchy as such. The monarchy is powerless to save the nation. Israel was wrong to ask for a king. Her punishment was that she got what she asked." 7: Henry McKeating, Amos, Hosea, and Micah (Cambridge: University Press, 1971), p. 148.
Coffman: "We are aware that it is popular among many able commentators today to make apologies for Israel'smonarchy and to apply what the Scriptures plainly say about it to some specific monarch, Saul, for example, as did Dummelow, or to the kings of Northern Israel as did Hailey;
but it is the conviction of this writer that
Israel was totally and completely wrong in asking a king and that this rejection of God (that is what the text calls it) contained embryonically all of the later sorrows of the Chosen People. Throughout the whole history of Israel, there were very few monarchs who even tried to serve the Lord. Solomon was to be blamed for the division of the kingdom under his son, because the people simply rejected the excesses of Solomon; and yet, even after God took the monarchy away from them, the nation wanted nothing in heaven or on earth as much as they wanted the restoration of that scandalous Solomonic empire.
It was this, more than anything else,
that motivated theirrejection of God Himself,
finally and irrevocably,
in their rejection of God's Son, Jesus Christ the Holy One.
Go down the list of Israel's kings, David, the very best of all of them, was an adulterer and a murderer; and he also corrupted the worship of God by two sinful things:
(1) his initiating the events that led to the building of the temple (the den of thieves and robbers in Jesus' times); and
(2) his introduction of instruments of music into the worship of God.We do not have the space here to outline all of the misdeeds of Israel's shameful monarchy, but it is clear enough that God's disapproval of the monarchy was no late thing, applicable only to the phantom kings of Ephraim's final years, but it rested upon the monarchy from the very beginning of it as outlined in this chapter.
If God had ever approved of it, He would never have taken it away from them! Nevertheless, God accommodated to the sinful conduct of His people and in many specific instances blessed the kings of Israel,
NO historic scholar failed to read Isaiah and Jeremiah to have the testimony of Christ that God did not COMMAND king, kingdom, temple, animal sacrifices or the Jacob-cursed and God-abandoned Levites as soothsayers to stand in ranks and warning people that they would be executed if they came inside the gates. Here is a more modern scholar who missed preach. Burton Coffman notes that.
The great Cambridge scholar, Henry McKeating, has the following comment on this passage from Hosea:
"Hosea is not only antagonistic to the northern kings but to the monarchy as such. The monarchy is powerless to save the nation. Israel was wrong to ask for a king. Her punishment was that she got what she asked." 7: Henry McKeating, Amos, Hosea, and Micah (Cambridge: University Press, 1971), p. 148.
Coffman: "We are aware that it is popular among many able commentators today to make apologies for Israel'smonarchy and to apply what the Scriptures plainly say about it to some specific monarch, Saul, for example, as did Dummelow, or to the kings of Northern Israel as did Hailey;
but it is the conviction of this writer that
Israel was totally and completely wrong in asking a king and that this rejection of God (that is what the text calls it) contained embryonically all of the later sorrows of the Chosen People. Throughout the whole history of Israel, there were very few monarchs who even tried to serve the Lord. Solomon was to be blamed for the division of the kingdom under his son, because the people simply rejected the excesses of Solomon; and yet, even after God took the monarchy away from them, the nation wanted nothing in heaven or on earth as much as they wanted the restoration of that scandalous Solomonic empire.
It was this, more than anything else,
that motivated theirrejection of God Himself,
finally and irrevocably,
in their rejection of God's Son, Jesus Christ the Holy One.
Go down the list of Israel's kings, David, the very best of all of them, was an adulterer and a murderer; and he also corrupted the worship of God by two sinful things:
(1) his initiating the events that led to the building of the temple (the den of thieves and robbers in Jesus' times); and
(2) his introduction of instruments of music into the worship of God.We do not have the space here to outline all of the misdeeds of Israel's shameful monarchy, but it is clear enough that God's disapproval of the monarchy was no late thing, applicable only to the phantom kings of Ephraim's final years, but it rested upon the monarchy from the very beginning of it as outlined in this chapter.
If God had ever approved of it, He would never have taken it away from them! Nevertheless, God accommodated to the sinful conduct of His people and in many specific instances blessed the kings of Israel,
L
LT
Guest
so you reject all the prophecies of Christ returning as King.... to "forever sit on the throne of David".
Are you saying that God did not accept, and also dwell within the Temple?
You say David corrupted the worship of God by adding instruments... please read your Bible.
None of these points are based is Scripture or logic, or even textual criticism, but are based on Church history alone.
How do these teachings help the cause of Christ?
How does slandering the plot-line of Redemption give any edification or encouragement to any Believer.
I hope that you begin getting into the Word for yourself, so that discernment can be given to you.
If you only get your teaching from other teachers, then you are getting 2nd-hand teaching.
Do not be deceived by others, and read The Book for yourself.
Last edited by a moderator:
The issue is the heart. Does man in his heart respect and follow God's word and sing s God commanded NT Christians, or does man reject what God said and follow his own heart and devices?
You posted yourself "if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will"
Worshippers doeth God's will and sing, worshippers do not do their own will and play.
If all preached Christ right, then why do they contradict each other at every turn?
Jesus once said "Thy word is truth"
Truth does not contradict itself as all the various religious groups do, so that is all the proof I need to know they do not all have the truth of God. Satan is the father of lies, contradictions are wrapped in lies, so Satan LOVES the contradictions that exist for he knows God's truth can NEVER be found in all the contradictions.
Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
By the Spirit OF Christ. 1 Peter 1:11; 2 Corinthians 3; Revelation 19:10
Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son,
whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
God made all things by His Word, Logos or Regulative Principle or Governing PRINCIPLE.
God's Word is PERSONIFIED when the Father BREATHES (Spirit) and the Son Articulates.
......and upholding all things by the WORD of his power,
......when he had by himself purged our sins,
.....sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Hebrews 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels,
...... as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Hebrews 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time,
...... Thou art my Son, this day have I BEGOTTEN thee?
...... And again, I will be TO HIM him a Father, and he shall be TO ME a Son?
Hebrews 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the FIRST BEGOTTEN into the world, he saith,
...... And let all the angels of God worship him.
Hebrews 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God,
...... is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
The Throne is GOD'S Throne, the Son was MADE TO BE PRIEST AND KING ON GOD'S THRONE
This was not the throne of Jesus but the throne of God He occupied for a time.
...... therefore God, even THY God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Hebrews 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth;
...... and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
Hebrews 1:11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
Hebrews 1:12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed:
...... but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand,
...... until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Hebrews 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
The Throne of GOD was "shared" with the Son for the duration of the Church of Christ seeking out lost spirits.
God sent His Right Hand or Arm as HIS intercessor: it is logical but parabolic that God's RIGHT hand return to the RIGHT of the Magesty on high.
Jesus said that parables are to HIDE the Word from the merchantile class OF THE WORLD from the foundation of the World. God HIDES from the wise or Sophists meaning rhetoricians, singers and players. Jesus called the Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites: in Ezekiel 33 the Spirit OF Christ named self-speakers for hire, singers, instrument players and their congregatioln.
By the Spirit OF Christ. 1 Peter 1:11; 2 Corinthians 3; Revelation 19:10
Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son,
whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
God made all things by His Word, Logos or Regulative Principle or Governing PRINCIPLE.
God's Word is PERSONIFIED when the Father BREATHES (Spirit) and the Son Articulates.
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly,
......that God [Theos] hath MADE that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified,
......both Lord [Kurios] and Christ.
1Corinthians 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus,
who OF God is MADE unto us wisdom, [Sophia or Spirit to the Jews]
...... and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
2Corinthians 5:21 For he hath MADE him to be sin for us, who knew no sin;
......THAT we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, [Confidence]......that God [Theos] hath MADE that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified,
......both Lord [Kurios] and Christ.
1Corinthians 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus,
who OF God is MADE unto us wisdom, [Sophia or Spirit to the Jews]
...... and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
2Corinthians 5:21 For he hath MADE him to be sin for us, who knew no sin;
......THAT we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
......and upholding all things by the WORD of his power,
......when he had by himself purged our sins,
.....sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Isaiah 59:15 Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey:
...... And the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.
Isaiah 59:16 And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no INTERCESSOR:
...... therefore his ARM brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.
Isaiah 59:17 For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head;
...... and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke.
When the man Jesus of Nazareth was MADE to be God's Creative power:...... And the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.
Isaiah 59:16 And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no INTERCESSOR:
...... therefore his ARM brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.
Isaiah 59:17 For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head;
...... and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke.
Hebrews 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels,
...... as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Hebrews 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time,
...... Thou art my Son, this day have I BEGOTTEN thee?
...... And again, I will be TO HIM him a Father, and he shall be TO ME a Son?
Hebrews 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the FIRST BEGOTTEN into the world, he saith,
...... And let all the angels of God worship him.
Hebrews 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God,
...... is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
The Throne is GOD'S Throne, the Son was MADE TO BE PRIEST AND KING ON GOD'S THRONE
This was not the throne of Jesus but the throne of God He occupied for a time.
1Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order:
...... Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.
1Corinthians 15:24 Then cometh the end,
...... when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father;
...... when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Corinthians 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Corinthians 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet.
...... But when he saith, all things are put under him,
...... it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him,
...... then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things
...... under him, hat God may be all in all.
Hebrews 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; ...... Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.
1Corinthians 15:24 Then cometh the end,
...... when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father;
...... when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Corinthians 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Corinthians 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet.
...... But when he saith, all things are put under him,
...... it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him,
...... then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things
...... under him, hat God may be all in all.
...... therefore God, even THY God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Hebrews 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth;
...... and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
Hebrews 1:11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
Hebrews 1:12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed:
...... but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand,
...... until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Hebrews 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
The Throne of GOD was "shared" with the Son for the duration of the Church of Christ seeking out lost spirits.
God sent His Right Hand or Arm as HIS intercessor: it is logical but parabolic that God's RIGHT hand return to the RIGHT of the Magesty on high.
Jesus said that parables are to HIDE the Word from the merchantile class OF THE WORLD from the foundation of the World. God HIDES from the wise or Sophists meaning rhetoricians, singers and players. Jesus called the Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites: in Ezekiel 33 the Spirit OF Christ named self-speakers for hire, singers, instrument players and their congregatioln.
Amen! I don't think something is evil and wrong to use in church just because it is not mentioned in the apostolic records of the New Testament. No church in the New Testament owned its own building, but met in homes or in other public places. No church in the New Testament had electricity or sound systems. The Bible never mentions whether any church service included a time of announcements or a Sunday School. We have all of these and I'm convinced they are acceptable. Musical instruments, if used with care, can enhance the singing of praise to the Lord. That was seen by the Christian Church that split from the Church of Christ (I wonder if they consider them a denomination). They were obviously considered a help to praise in the Old Testament and in heaven. It seems strange to say that something God thought was a blessing in the Old Testament and is considered a blessing in heaven is an evil in the New Testament church.
I DON'T THINK WON'T WORK WHEN YOU ARE ASKED WHY YOU VIOLATED DIRECT COMMANDS, APPROVED EXAMPLES AND EVEN VERY REMOTE INFERENCES FOR THOSE WHO KNOW THAT A CHRISTIAN IS A DISCIPLE AND DISCIPLES GO TO BIBLE SCHOOL AND NOT "WORSHIP RITUALS" TO WHICH JESUS SAID THE KINGDOM DOES NOT COME;
The Church of Christ (the Rock) was ordained in the Wilderness: it was qahal, synagogue or ekklesia.
It was EXCLUSIVE of vocal or instrumental rejoicing which included any rhetoric or self-speak
It was INCLUSIVE of Rest (from seventh day sun worship), Reading and Rehearsing the Word as delivered to sub-elders of groups as small as ten families. [Exodus 18]
It was BECAUSE of Rising up to PLAY (with singing, instruments and one another) as THE WORSHIP prescribed in Egypt of Apis which represented the pagan trinity of Osiris, Isis (mother, spirit) and son Horus.
The Jacob-cursed and God-abandoned Levites were commanded to STAND IN RANKS ready to execute any godly person who came near or into the Tabernace.
The Synagogue or Church Qarantined the godly to their isolated areas.
The Civil-Military-Clergy class was ABANDONED TO WORSHIP THE STARRY HOST.
The godly people always attended church or synagogue: Jesus exampled the PATTER when He stood up to READ and then decently sat down. The command from Moses onward was to PREACH the Word by READING the Word for comfort and doctrine. That continued for almost 400 years before an unwashed bishop (now getting paid) introduce singing HIS songs (bible stories) in the Syriac churches. This split the east from the west churches.
What became churches of Christ were never "joined" in any sense with the Disciples or Christian churches. When it became apparent that the instrumental sect INTENDED (even now) to "fellowship" and confiscate your churches it became impossible to have even fraternal meetings.
The use of INSTRUMENTS in Scripture including the Goat Burning God did not command was ALWAYS a prelude to a BURNING PARTY. This folly is forbidden over and over by you can read that the preacher class gets violent when you define words.
The Church of Christ (the Rock) was ordained in the Wilderness: it was qahal, synagogue or ekklesia.
It was EXCLUSIVE of vocal or instrumental rejoicing which included any rhetoric or self-speak
It was INCLUSIVE of Rest (from seventh day sun worship), Reading and Rehearsing the Word as delivered to sub-elders of groups as small as ten families. [Exodus 18]
It was BECAUSE of Rising up to PLAY (with singing, instruments and one another) as THE WORSHIP prescribed in Egypt of Apis which represented the pagan trinity of Osiris, Isis (mother, spirit) and son Horus.
The Jacob-cursed and God-abandoned Levites were commanded to STAND IN RANKS ready to execute any godly person who came near or into the Tabernace.
The Synagogue or Church Qarantined the godly to their isolated areas.
The Civil-Military-Clergy class was ABANDONED TO WORSHIP THE STARRY HOST.
The godly people always attended church or synagogue: Jesus exampled the PATTER when He stood up to READ and then decently sat down. The command from Moses onward was to PREACH the Word by READING the Word for comfort and doctrine. That continued for almost 400 years before an unwashed bishop (now getting paid) introduce singing HIS songs (bible stories) in the Syriac churches. This split the east from the west churches.
What became churches of Christ were never "joined" in any sense with the Disciples or Christian churches. When it became apparent that the instrumental sect INTENDED (even now) to "fellowship" and confiscate your churches it became impossible to have even fraternal meetings.
The use of INSTRUMENTS in Scripture including the Goat Burning God did not command was ALWAYS a prelude to a BURNING PARTY. This folly is forbidden over and over by you can read that the preacher class gets violent when you define words.
No one thought about congregational singing until after the reformation: no one thought of using the organ to long after the Reformation. If A Church of Christ is a SCHOOL OF THE WORD then why would you let juveniles mock and play when Jesus comes to teach only when the elders teach that which has been taught?
Judas will lead the MUSICAL MOCKING according to Psalm 41. His Judas bag was for carrying the mouthpieces of wind instruments.
Matthew 27:29 And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head,
and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him,
and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!
Matthew 27:28 And they stripped him, and put on him a scarlet robe.
Matthew 27:31 And after that they had mocked him, they took the robe off from him,
and put his own raiment on him, and led him away to crucify him.
Empaizō , fut. to be deluded II. sport in or on, “hōs nebros khloerais e. leimakos hēdonais” E.Ba. 866 (lyr.); tois khoroisin e. to sport in the dance, Ar.Th.975; “tō gumnasiō” Luc.Lex.5.
-Prospaizô , 2. abs., sport, jest, 3. laugh at, make fun or sport of, sing to the gods, sing in their praise or honour, 2. banter, tous rhêtoras
illūdo . Neutr., to play at or with any thing, to sport with, amuse one's self with
To make sport or game of, to jest, mock, or jeer at, to ridicule
“voces Neronis, quoties caneret,” Tac. A. 14, 52: verbis virtutem superbis, Verg. A. 9, 634.—
I. Neutr., to utter melodious notes, to sing, sound, play. “tibia canentum,” Lucr. 4, 587;
“curvo calamo,” Cat. 63, 22: “harundine,” Ov. M. 1, 683; Suet. Caes. 32: “cithara,” Tac. A. 14, 14: The WORLD or KOSMOS for whom Jesus does not pray: of thePythagoreans, of the heavenly bodies (considered as living beings),” the music of the spheres, Cic. N. D. 3, 11, 27.—
illūdo (inl-
INeutr., to play at or with any thing, to sport with, amuse one's self with (syn. colludo; cf. ludificor).
1. To scoff or mock at, to make a laughing-stock of, to ridicule (so most freq.): “satis superbe illuditis me,
“feminarum illustrium capitibus,” : illusa pictae vestis inania,rhetorum),
ALWAYS THE FEMALE role in religion whatever the sex: David danced the woman's robe in a STOLA!
2 Peter 3 Marks of the End Time Mockers
2 Peter 3:2 That ye may
.....be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets,
.....and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
That is the CURRICULUM for DISCIPLES who attend the School of the Word and not pagan ceremonial legalism
2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first,
.....that there shall come in the last days scoffers,
.....walking after their own lusts,
Judas will lead the MUSICAL MOCKING according to Psalm 41. His Judas bag was for carrying the mouthpieces of wind instruments.
Matthew 27:29 And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head,
and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him,
and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!
Matthew 27:28 And they stripped him, and put on him a scarlet robe.
Matthew 27:31 And after that they had mocked him, they took the robe off from him,
and put his own raiment on him, and led him away to crucify him.
Empaizō , fut. to be deluded II. sport in or on, “hōs nebros khloerais e. leimakos hēdonais” E.Ba. 866 (lyr.); tois khoroisin e. to sport in the dance, Ar.Th.975; “tō gumnasiō” Luc.Lex.5.
-Prospaizô , 2. abs., sport, jest, 3. laugh at, make fun or sport of, sing to the gods, sing in their praise or honour, 2. banter, tous rhêtoras
illūdo . Neutr., to play at or with any thing, to sport with, amuse one's self with
To make sport or game of, to jest, mock, or jeer at, to ridicule
“voces Neronis, quoties caneret,” Tac. A. 14, 52: verbis virtutem superbis, Verg. A. 9, 634.—
I. Neutr., to utter melodious notes, to sing, sound, play. “tibia canentum,” Lucr. 4, 587;
“curvo calamo,” Cat. 63, 22: “harundine,” Ov. M. 1, 683; Suet. Caes. 32: “cithara,” Tac. A. 14, 14: The WORLD or KOSMOS for whom Jesus does not pray: of thePythagoreans, of the heavenly bodies (considered as living beings),” the music of the spheres, Cic. N. D. 3, 11, 27.—
illūdo (inl-
INeutr., to play at or with any thing, to sport with, amuse one's self with (syn. colludo; cf. ludificor).
1. To scoff or mock at, to make a laughing-stock of, to ridicule (so most freq.): “satis superbe illuditis me,
“feminarum illustrium capitibus,” : illusa pictae vestis inania,rhetorum),
ALWAYS THE FEMALE role in religion whatever the sex: David danced the woman's robe in a STOLA!
2 Peter 3 Marks of the End Time Mockers
2 Peter 3:2 That ye may
.....be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets,
.....and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
That is the CURRICULUM for DISCIPLES who attend the School of the Word and not pagan ceremonial legalism
2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first,
.....that there shall come in the last days scoffers,
.....walking after their own lusts,
God, creator of all things, needs man to enhance worship for Him? many of the things you mention above were in use by the first century church, for example, when Jesus preached the sermon on the mount, why do you suppose it was "on the mount" it was so the multitude could be better "addressed publicly", when Jesus taught from the boat to those on the shore ( Luke 5:1-3 ), why did he get into the boat? it was so he could "publicly address" the people, did the mountain or the boat change what Jesus was saying? did it change his preaching? he used what was expedient of the day, like our microphone, he used a first century public address system.
Does the building make the worship different than that of those in a house? if it does maybe the building has to much bling taking away from the worship.
When Jesus commissioned them to "go into all the world" did he tell them to use a donkey? a horse? no, he said "go" and today we use what is expedient to "go into all the world" cars, trucks buses, planes and walk, does this change what he said to do?
Mark 16:15 (NKJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
any split from the Lords church does make them a denomination...
They used incense and animal sacrafice in the OT too, why doesn't your assembly do that? is it because that is not pleasing to your assembly like mechanical instrumental music?
There is no record of the NT church ever using mechanical instrumental music in worship to God, it is brought in by man to please man, people forget who the audience really is.
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