A prodigal son comes back, that's the key. Stanley preaches you can be prodigal son and never come back, and still be saved.
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E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
what if a person died before he has a chance to come back. Or commits the "sin unto Death" Were they still saved, and how could we judge it? and again, the key word is IF THEY WERE SAVED.
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So, do I agree 100% with Dr. Stanley's conclusions about someone walking away from GOD at a certain point in their life, remains saved?
No, you cannot lose your salvation, BUT a genuine prodigal son will ALWAYS return to the Father.
But what if they NEVER come back, did they LOSE their Salvation?
NO! BECAUSE THAT PROVES THEY NEVER HAD GENUINE SALVATION IN THE FIRST PLACE.
1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.
See my post 363. I do not think we can judge that, because only GOD can see the heart, to see if they are prodigal or someone who settled for a false gospel and only thought they were saved.
I quess that would be up to God to determine, if their repentance and faith was genuine or not.
It is a ridiculous argument that you are making anyway, what if a a person who never professed Christ with his lips nor knew Him, never heard the gospel, they died young, say 20? How would we know if he wouldn't have heard and received Christ later in his life.
Stanley is using "if" to mean "assuming they are saved" or "to imply they are saved"...Stanley is assuming the prodigal is saved and lives contrary to the word of God. He is not using "if" to question if the prodigal is saved or not.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Well thats for God. yes. not us I was just stating something, If someone dies and does not come back, we should not assume they were never saved, because they acted as a prodigal child. the fact is, we just do not know. which is why i said, The key word is. IF THEY WERE SAVED. I pray we both agree. IF THEY WERE SAVED, they would be in heaven.. Now. If they were never saved to begin with is another question, I agree, But in Mr. Stanley's argument, They were BORN AGAIN. there was not a question of, Were they saved or not, In his example, they WERE SAVED.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
that is not what I heard. I heard him say, If they were saved, If they were truly born again, Then they can never lose that salvation.
The problem is that Stanley doesn't know they are saved or not. The fact that Stanley doesn't mention that the prodigal who is "genuinely saved" always comes back. Stanley implies that you can be saved, and live a carnal life until you die and still be saved. My understanding is if you never come back, you were probably never saved to begin with because the bible teaches genuine Christians transform into His likeness.
The fact that Stanley believes you can be saved and live your life contrary to God all your life is what I disagree with.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
i can not agree with you. Stanly is using an example, if they are saved, they can not lose it. I agree with him. If they are saved, they are still saved. if not. they lost salvation, and salvation becomes a works based salvation. Again, He did not say they never changed, and never had work. He is talking about people who fell back, or backslid. He will agree, a person who never saw a change is not saved, they were never saved.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
we need to look at the question, How can a person be saved, THEN backslide into sin. and STILL BE SAVED? In this context. Charles Stanley is correct. The question assumes they were saved, (in reality) then backslid. A non believer can not backslide. He was never saved
I understand that a Christian can backslide, but I don't believe a genuine believer can backslide all their life and never be brought back into the fold via the chastising of the Father. I heard Stanley say that one could live like hell the rest of their life and still be saved, and that God grace is bigger then our sin (which is true, however...) and I think I know what he means. This is easy-believeism to the core, and some might just say "great, I live however I feel and desire, sin doesn't matter, so what I loose some rewards in heaven, I just care about getting there." This leads to a false sense of security.
J
J-Kay-2
Guest
1 Chronicles 16:22 KJV King James Version
Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm .
It appears to me if a man of God is being reamed out and talked about
as much as Dr. Stanley, he must be doing something right. Only when
we are doing the Lords Work does Satan get angry and begins to pick on
men or women who are leading the lost onto the Road of Salvation ~
Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm .
It appears to me if a man of God is being reamed out and talked about
as much as Dr. Stanley, he must be doing something right. Only when
we are doing the Lords Work does Satan get angry and begins to pick on
men or women who are leading the lost onto the Road of Salvation ~
J
J-Kay-2
Guest
Wow, after seeing so much conflict on a Christian Chat over
salvation, I am beginning to think the Jezebel Spirit sprang
to life. Don't think I need to explain what a Jezebel Spirit is.
salvation, I am beginning to think the Jezebel Spirit sprang
to life. Don't think I need to explain what a Jezebel Spirit is.
Fortunately, we do not have to judge it. The ONLY person I can really do anything about is myself.
1 Thessalonians 5:21
New King James Version (NKJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Test all things; hold fast what is good.
I am not question this man's faith or salvation, we are simply testing all things; and iron sharpens iron. EG and I are good friends and brothers in Christ. Just because we have some heated arguments doesn't me we are against each other. I am deeply insulted at your comments.
J
J-Kay-2
Guest
I was thinking the same thing earlier in my reading of many replies. I
could not understand why we would argue over 'salvation.'
Note*** This Thread starts out with a lead in.... Sounded good, right ?
I was impressed. Then....and then.... the real reason it was started
came out. I am so surprised, but just as God will judge me, He will
judge all.
Satan is angry and we must stay on guard. Praise Jesus for the power
in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. J~K~2
J
J-Kay-2
Guest
Never mind. Nothing to explain.. You know.... when a crowd comes around
an accident scene and the police say... stay back, nothing to see here....
Was just talking to myself. Thank you for noticing. ~
J
J-Kay-2
Guest
Well look what I found after I left here earlier. Judging.. God has a way
of getting my attention. How about you ?
"The duty of every Christian (and it is the last lesson we learn) is to make room for God to deal with other people direct as He deals with us; we will limit them and try to make everyone in our mould. We have to keep in unbroken touch with God and give every soul the same freedom and liberty before God as God gives us."
--Oswald Chambers, in Notes on Jeremiah from the Quotable Oswald Chambers.