Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship?

[posthuman]

Btw, do you still even go to one, or are you, and maybe your family, the only members of the true 'Church of Christ' that you know of, in your opinion?

i don't want to go searching for it, but i don't think he goes to church at all. he said in a post a week ago or more something about being vehemently offended by a church daring to pass an offering plate around and that he holes himself up at home and self-studies.

looking at the result of that self-imposed isolationism, one sees the wisdom of the apostles instruction "forsaking not the assembling of ourselves together" (Hebrews 10:25)'

maybe am wrong; am going by memory. KSublett can clear that up but i'm not sure he ever responds to anything. he's got his own agenda lol

 

[Jabberjaw]

I'd just like to point out that saying that Colossians 3:16 and Ephesians 5:19 is a COMMAND NOT to use instruments is illogical, foolish, irrational, and maybe even insane. There is no way to get that out of those verses.

Now, if your argument is that we should only do what is commanded, specifically, kind of like a Regulative Approach, then that is something to discuss. But the other stance is obviously false.

What it all boils down to, something you and others may (because it is simplified) understand,

If you were God, and you ordered a Big Mack, and someone at the counter thought you would like two quarter pounders better, would that make you happy? after all, you never told the person at the counter you do not want two quarter pounders, or any other thing on the menu... by you saying you wanted a "Big Mack" you "excluded" everything else on the menu...

God said in Col. 3:16 and Eph. 5:19 to "sing", that excludes all other music, period...

 

[KSublett]

If your BOSS ordered a Big Mac you would buy him a Big Mac. If God ordered a Big Mack you would bring Him chopped liver. He wouldn't need an answer even though you whined, "I thought (an oxymoron) that their chopped liver looked like health food. He would then burn you because God said that the imagination of man is only evil continually. As you begin to become toast you would yell: DIDN'T I TELL YOU THAT I HAD A GOOD MENTAL ATTITUDE.

The problem is that people have seen God acted out so long that they really believe that He must be a bit taller than Jesus and bit smarter. The distance between God and Man is infinite unless Jesus brings you near. But, they do say "IF Jesus had lived in our culture He would understand that the kids have ear buds 24/7 and the only way to attract them is some not-ready-for-prime-time instrument players.

The insult is just proof that they are not of faith or of truth.

I said that Jesus paid it all and Paul said that the freewill offering was not a COMMAND. Recorded history agrees.

Paul still says that of those who do not approach God with reverence and Godly fear that GOD IS STILL A CONSUMING FIRE shades of Nadab and Abihu.

 

[KSublett]

The Levite Soothsayer-Sorcerers was called SERVICE which means HARD BONDAGE: it is derived from the Hebrew versions of Abad or Abadown. They had been turned over to worship the starry host and APOLLO is defined as a SUN GOD. The Locusts who "lull you to sleep so they can sting you" are defined as Musical Prophesiers.

Apollōn , ho, Apollo: gen. ōnos (also ō An.Ox.3.222): acc.
A.“Apollō” IG1.9, al., A.Supp.214, S.OC1091, Tr.209 (lyr.) (mostly in adjurations, nēton Apollō, etc.), “Apollōna” Pl.Lg.624a, freq. later, Agatharch.7, etc.: voc. “Apollon” Alc.1, A.Th.159(lyr.), Cratin.186, etc.; “Apollōn” A.Ch.559; cf. Apellōn, Aploun. [washer]
II. Pythag. name of a number,

Apollo was the father of musical harmony, the twanging bow to send forth a singing arrow into the litteral harp.

Acts 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.

-[1.1.4]The Athenians have also another harbor, at Munychia, with a temple of Artemis of Munychia, and yet another at Phalerum, as I have already stated, and near it is a sanctuary of Demeter. Here there is also a temple of Athena Sciras, and one of Zeus some distance away, and altars of the gods named Unknown

Pausanias Greece Paus. 1.2 But in my time it was devoted to the worship of Dionysus. This Dionysus they call Melpomenus Apollo [Abaddon, Apollyon] Musegetes (Leader of the Muses).

Mousagetēs [SUP]1[/SUP] doric for Mousēgetēs leader of the Muses, Lat. Musagetes, of Apollo,

melpō , Il.1.474, celebrate with song and dance, melpontes hekaergon Il.l.c.; Phoibon [Apollo] sing to the lyre or harp, “meta de sphin emelpeto theios aoidos, phormizōn” [Apollo's Lyre ]Melpomenos, epith. of Dionysus at Athens,

​

Here there are images of Athēnas Paiōnias (Healer), of Zeus, of Mnemosyne (Memory) and of the Muses, an Apollo,Pausanias, Greece (Minstrel), Apollōn te anathēmakai ergon Euboulidou, kai daimōntōn amphi Dionuso

Anathema is some thing or person who has devoted themselves to ADORN the worship center CANNOT BE REDEEMED and must be BURNED. And so all of the instruments are MARKS of soon judgment like the sounds like harps even if you use a "musical band" to do a legalistit end run.

-[1.2.5] One of the porticoes contains shrines of gods, and a gymnasium called that of Hermes.In it is the house of Pulytion [serpent], at which it is said that a mystic rite was performed by the most notable Athenians, parodying the Eleusinian mysteries. [The MEN acting like BOYS piped hoping that Jesus would lament or cry out and dance as He was induced into the new wineskin gay priestood.]

Paus. 10.5.5 From here the high road to Delphi becomes both steeper and more difficult for the walker. Many and different are the stories told about Delphi, and even more so about the oracle of Apollo. For they say that in the earliest times the oracular seat belonged to Earth, who appointed as prophetess at it Daphnis, one of the nymphs [brides in Revelation 18,] of the mountain.

Paus. 10.5.7 I have heard too that shepherds feeding their flocks came upon the oracle, were inspired by the vapor, and prophesied as the mouthpiece of Apollo. The most prevalent view, however, is that Phemonoe was the first prophetess of the god, and first sang in hexameter verse. Boeo, a native woman who composed a hymn for the Delphians, said that the oracle was established for the god by comers from the Hyperboreans, Olen and others, and that he was the first to prophesy and the first to chant the hexameter oracles.

The goats went wacko at Delphi and danced and bleated madly so some "ministery leader" decided that they were PROPHESYING (giving advice) and HE would tell the contributor what the goats said that the gods wanted him to do. Then, they used virgins to fleece the spectators but they kept getting raped so they used Women Prophesier over 60 years of age. The Priest secretly pried off the seal to the question, made up some answer the prophetess "spoke in tonges" and the Musician set them to verse and sang the respons. I see them do that on TV and I believe them.

 

[LT]

If my boss ordered a Big Mac, and I brought him a Big Mac and a coffee, I'm sure he'd accept the coffee too.

The analogy is mute, because we still sing. It is called 'accompaniment', which means it accompanies the singing of psalms, hymns and spiritual songs.

The argument for exclusivity is ridiculous, and outside of logic.

 

[presidente]

What it all boils down to, something you and others may (because it is simplified) understand,

If you were God, and you ordered a Big Mack, and someone at the counter thought you would like two quarter pounders better, would that make you happy? after all, you never told the person at the counter you do not want two quarter pounders, or any other thing on the menu... by you saying you wanted a "Big Mack" you "excluded" everything else on the menu...

God said in Col. 3:16 and Eph. 5:19 to "sing", that excludes all other music, period...

If you order a Big Mac, you will probably say 5 to 20 words or so.

We have a whole Bible full of instruction about God. Those two verses are not all the Lord says on the subject. They are not intended to exclude all else scripture teaches about music either.

 

[presidente]

Apollo was the father of musical harmony, the twanging bow to send forth a singing arrow into the litteral harp.

Sorry, this is a Christian forum. We don't believe in Greek mythology religion. We don't consider those writings to be inspired.

Acts 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.

-[1.1.4]The Athenians have also another harbor, at Munychia, with a temple of Artemis of Munychia, and yet another at Phalerum, as I have already stated, and near it is a sanctuary of Demeter. Here there is also a temple of Athena Sciras, and one of Zeus some distance away, and altars of the gods named Unknown

Pausanias Greece Paus. 1.2 But in my time it was devoted to the worship of Dionysus. This Dionysus they call Melpomenus Apollo [Abaddon, Apollyon] Musegetes (Leader of the Muses).

There you go again with your unsupported assocaition of Apollyon with Apollo. What about having a look at the literal meaning of the word and going with that, rather than trying to offer off of what the word is related to? Do you do the same thing when you read English. If someone is said to be sinister, do you conclude that he is left handed?

As far as the unknown God monument is concerned, no matter what pagans had done with it before, Paul took it to refer to the true unknown God. The story I'd read was that the wise man they'd called to help them with their plague or famine, after they'd sacrificed to their other idols, told them that they had offended a God they do not know, and since they do not know His form, they cannot make a statue to him. They built three monuments with the inscription and sacrificed to the unknown God, and, the problem they were having stopped. One monument survived in Paul's day, or so I read in Don Richardson's book.

Mousagetēs [SUP]1[/SUP] doric for Mousēgetēs leader of the Muses, Lat. Musagetes, of Apollo,

melpō , Il.1.474, celebrate with song and dance, melpontes hekaergon Il.l.c.; Phoibon [Apollo] sing to the lyre or harp, “meta de sphin emelpeto theios aoidos, phormizōn” [Apollo's Lyre ]Melpomenos, epith. of Dionysus at Athens,

​

Here there are images of Athēnas Paiōnias (Healer), of Zeus, of Mnemosyne (Memory) and of the Muses, an Apollo,Pausanias, Greece (Minstrel), Apollōn te anathēmakai ergon Euboulidou, kai daimōntōn amphi Dionuso

More irrelevent quotes. You are treating statements about mythology and history as if it contains some secret inspired message. We understand paul's point about the Unknown God by reading what he had to say. Paul likely wouldn't have read the same sources about the ancient world that you have.

Anathema is some thing or person who has devoted themselves to ADORN the worship center CANNOT BE REDEEMED and must be BURNED. And so all of the instruments are MARKS of soon judgment like the sounds like harps even if you use a "musical band" to do a legalistit end run.

More nonsense that cannot be supported with scripture or reason. Are you going to try to burn the elders' harps in heaven? Psalm 150 commanded the praises of the Lord with instruments. You would burn them.

Psalm 92:1-3
1 It is good to praise the LORD and make music to your name, O Most High,2 to proclaim your love in the morning and your faithfulness at night, 3 to the music of the ten-stringed lyre and the melody of the harp.[/b]
(NIV) (emphasis mine)

The Bible says it is good. Do you agree or disagree that this is a good thing? Do you at least agree that it was a good thing?

If you disagree with the Bible, what should I believe, your theories or the Bible.

Your theories can't be true. First of all, they don't make sense and aren't reasonable. Secondly, the contradict scripture. Case closed.

-[1.2.5] One of the porticoes contains shrines of gods, and a gymnasium called that of Hermes.In it is the house of Pulytion [serpent], at which it is said that a mystic rite was performed by the most notable Athenians, parodying the Eleusinian mysteries. [The MEN acting like BOYS piped hoping that Jesus would lament or cry out and dance as He was induced into the new wineskin gay priestood.]

One major flaw with your eisegesis is that you focus too much on paganism and fill your mind with pagan ideas. Jesus was talking to a Jewish audience, not a pagan Greek audience.

The goats went wacko at Delphi and danced and bleated madly so some "ministery leader" decided that they were PROPHESYING (giving advice) and HE would tell the contributor what the goats said that the gods wanted him to do. Then, they used virgins to fleece the spectators but they kept getting raped so they used Women Prophesier over 60 years of age. The Priest secretly pried off the seal to the question, made up some answer the prophetess "spoke in tonges" and the Musician set them to verse and sang the respons. I see them do that on TV and I believe them.

Again, you are viewing the Bible through pagan lenses and viewing reality through pagan lenses. You even interpret gifts of the Spirit through pagan lenses. The Bible shows us there genuine spiritual gifts and gives instructions for their use, without even warning against the gifts being pagan or anything like that.

In the Old Testament, there were true prophets speaking the word of the LORD. There were false prophets claiming to speak in the LORD's name, and false prophets prophesying in the name of false gods. The pagans may have done some things somewhat similar to those who practiced the genuine faith-- their prophets claimed to speak for their gods. They sacrificed to their false gods on altars made of uncut stone. Does that mean that it was wrong for genuine Hebrew prophets to speak in the name of the true God or for Israelites to make altars of uncut stones like the Lord commanded? No. we do not reject the Lord's teaching based on it's surface similarities to paganism.

Pagans drink water. Does drinking water make you a pagan.

Some of the pagans probably fed their minds a diet of the type of stuff you read from their literature.

 

[T-REX]

psalm 150:3-5..."Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet, praise him with the harp and lyre, praise him with timbrel and dancing, praise him with the strings and pipe, praise him with the clash of cymbals, praise him with resounding cymbals."

any other questions?

raises hand, who wrote this,to whom was it written to,when was this written, what was the entire context of the scriptures?

 

[Jabberjaw]

If you order a Big Mac, you will probably say 5 to 20 words or so.

We have a whole Bible full of instruction about God. Those two verses are not all the Lord says on the subject. They are not intended to exclude all else scripture teaches about music either.

What those two verses say are the ONLY thing said to do, "Sing" in the NT Church. (unless you can provide a verse to the contrary)

 

[presidente]

What those two verses say are the ONLY thing said to do, "Sing" in the NT Church. (unless you can provide a verse to the contrary)

Btw, I think KS would disagree with you and say the verse says to speak these songs rather than sing them, if I understand him right.

There are plenty of other things in scripture that are 'said to do.'

I Corinthians 14 says "For ye may all prophesy one by one..."

Usually, prophesy involves speaking as moved by the Holy Ghost, as Peter described the prophecies of the holy men of old. But Peter called David a prophet, and he prophesied through songs that were sung.

This shows us that it is possible to prophesy with musical instruments,

I Chronicles 25:1
Moreover David and the captains of the host separated to the service of the sons of Asaph, and of Heman, and of Jeduthun, who should prophesy with harps, with psalteries, and with cymbals: and the number of the workmen according to their service was

 

[Stephen63]

1 Chronicles 15:16 (KJV) [SUP]16 [/SUP]And David spake to the chief of the Levites to appoint their brethren to be the singers with instruments of musick, psalteries and harps and cymbals, sounding, by lifting up the voice with joy.
[HR][/HR]2 Chronicles 5:13 (KJV) [SUP]13 [/SUP]It came even to pass, as the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the LORD; and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of musick, and praised the LORD, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: that then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the LORD;
[HR][/HR]2 Chronicles 7:6 (KJV) [SUP]6 [/SUP]And the priests waited on their offices: the Levites also with instruments of musick of the LORD, which David the king had made to praise the LORD, because his mercy endureth for ever, when David praised by their ministry; and the priests sounded trumpets before them, and all Israel stood.
[HR][/HR]2 Chronicles 34:12 (KJV) [SUP]12 [/SUP]And the men did the work faithfully: and the overseers of them were Jahath and Obadiah, the Levites, of the sons of Merari; and Zechariah and Meshullam, of the sons of the Kohathites, to set it forward; and other of the Levites, all that could skill of instruments of musick.

 

[Jabberjaw]

Btw, I think KS would disagree with you and say the verse says to speak these songs rather than sing them, if I understand him right.

There are plenty of other things in scripture that are 'said to do.'

Speaking songs IS singing

I Corinthians 14 says "For ye may all prophesy one by one..."

Usually, prophesy involves speaking as moved by the Holy Ghost, as Peter described the prophecies of the holy men of old. But Peter called David a prophet, and he prophesied through songs that were sung.

This shows us that it is possible to prophesy with musical instruments,

I Chronicles 25:1
Moreover David and the captains of the host separated to the service of the sons of Asaph, and of Heman, and of Jeduthun, who should prophesy with harps, with psalteries, and with cymbals: and the number of the workmen according to their service was

You're in the wrong dispensation, find me a verse that shows the NT church used Musical Instruments.

 

[MsLimpet]

James 5:13 tells us, “Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing psalms.” John 4:24 (“God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must wor-ship in spirit and truth”) explains that God is glorified when we worship Him acceptably.


When we talk about singing,in the New Testament, God never authorized us to use mechanical instruments of music. It is impossible to find mechanical instruments of music being used in the New Testament. There is no authority in the New Testament for the use of instruments. Remember that in Revelation 22:18-19 we are told that we must not add to or take from the Word of God. If we are not to add to God’s Word, and if the use of instruments is not in the New Testament, then how can we use instruments of music in our worship to God?

By adding instruments of music to our worship, we are violating Revelation 22:18-19. In Colossians 3:17 we are told, “Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of [Acts 4:7—“by the authority of” the Lord Jesus.” Where is Jesus’ authority in the New Testament for us to include instruments of music in our worship of God?

 

[presidente]

You're in the wrong dispensation, find me a verse that shows the NT church used Musical Instruments.

Find me a verse that uses 'dispensation' the way you are using it.

If your boss asked you to pick up some McDonald's french fries, and you brought them to him with packets of ketchup and salt in the bag, would he fire you?

 

[presidente]

When we talk about singing,in the New Testament, God never authorized us to use mechanical instruments of music. It is impossible to find mechanical instruments of music being used in the New Testament.

One thing we know is that the apostles did not teach this idea that unless something is specifically permitted in the New Testament scriptures (ignoring the Hebrew Bible), that it is forbidden. They did not make decisions that way. They didn't open a copy of the New Testament and search it to see what was permitted. They did look at the Old Testament.

This principle that you are using, that if something was not specifically authorized in the last 27 books of the Bible it is forbidden, was not taught by the apostles, nor is there an examlpe of it in scripture. It is not presented as being part of the 'faith that was once delivered to the saints.'

There is no authority in the New Testament for the use of instruments.

Why does the use of instruments have to have any authority? Is the use of instruments going to tell you what to do?

Where is your authority for having a pulpit or a pew. Why are any of those things more 'expedient' than a musical instrument?

Remember that in Revelation 22:18-19 we are told that we must not add to or take from the Word of God. If we are not to add to God’s Word, and if the use of instruments is not in the New Testament, then how can we use instruments of music in our worship to God?

Using musical instruments does not add to God's word. In fact, the book you refer to shows a vision of harps in heaven.

By adding instruments of music to our worship, we are violating Revelation 22:18-19. In Colossians 3:17 we are told, “Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of [Acts 4:7—“by the authority of” the Lord Jesus.” Where is Jesus’ authority in the New Testament for us to include instruments of music in our worship of God?
[/QUOTE]

 

[newbirth]

What if I give you some commands on singing only, then you wouldn't need for God to tell you that instruments are not allowed. If you're told to do something one way and you choose not to do it the way God commands, that would be a sin. Ephesians 5:19, Colossians 3:16 and 1 Corinthians 14:15 1 Corinthians 14:15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.

I see you still don't understand what is worship... at least understand the the scripture. The way I see it, with your logic using the internet to communicate is a sin too. All the verses you quote are teachings on how we should behave among ourselves. Nothing to do with what you are insinuating. No one has the authority to take the Holy scripture and twist it to their own fancy, not even your church. I don't get any joy in doing this but you have a choice you can follow the word of God or follow your church.

Blessed be the Elohim and Father of our Master Yahushua the Mashiyach,who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing which are in the heavenly places in

the Mashiyach,

 

[MsLimpet]

One thing we know is that the apostles did not teach this idea that unless something is specifically permitted in the New Testament scriptures (ignoring the Hebrew Bible), that it is forbidden. They did not make decisions that way. They didn't open a copy of the New Testament and search it to see what was permitted. They did look at the Old Testament.

This principle that you are using, that if something was not specifically authorized in the last 27 books of the Bible it is forbidden, was not taught by the apostles, nor is there an examlpe of it in scripture. It is not presented as being part of the 'faith that was once delivered to the saints.'



Why does the use of instruments have to have any authority? Is the use of instruments going to tell you what to do?

Where is your authority for having a pulpit or a pew. Why are any of those things more 'expedient' than a musical instrument?



Using musical instruments does not add to God's word. In fact, the book you refer to shows a vision of harps in heaven.

By adding instruments of music to our worship, we are violating Revelation 22:18-19. In Colossians 3:17 we are told, “Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of [Acts 4:7—“by the authority of” the Lord Jesus.” Where is Jesus’ authority in the New Testament for us to include instruments of music in our worship of God?
[/FONT]

[/QUOTE]

Some people allegedly said that New Testament writers quote from the Old Testament, and when these New Testament writers quote from the Old Testament, we can look at the Old Testament context they quoted from and use all of the context they quoted from and bring that in as part of the New Testament. This is false because when the New Testament writers bind something, which was bound in the old law, we accept it because it is bound and established in the new. We must accept it in the New Testament context and not the Old Testament context.

In 1 Peter 1:15-16, 1 Peter 1:15-16, the Bible says, “But as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all of your conduct because it is written, ‘Be holy, for I am holy.’” This command here in 1 Peter 1:15-16 to be holy is quoted from the Old Testament. But that does not bind nor authorize the Old Testament regulations concerning how to be holy. When you go to Leviticus chapter 11:44, Leviticus 14:30-31, Leviticus 20:7 and verse 10, all of these regulations telling us how to be holy, Peter quoted it from there. But we cannot use the verses surrounding that to authorize or bind how we’re to be holy today because we must be holy the way the new covenant tells us to be holy.

 

[LT]

If a person cannot pay attention to the words when singing with an accompaniment, then they should go to a church that doesn't use instruments. That is their personal conviction, and to ignore it would be a sin.

What has happened here is: a famous minister had such a conviction, and confused his personal conviction with the Word of God. He lead his entire congregation, and affiliated congregations, to hold themselves to such a standard (much like the additions to the Torah made by the Pharisees through the Talmud [Oral Torah]). These congregations now hold to this teaching as a doctrine, regardless of Biblical context. They have rationalized the teaching by reading their agenda into the Word of God. They now preach this doctrine as if it is a part of the Gospel. What was once a good thing has now been twisted into a division in the Body of Christ.
It is good to speak/sing praises to God without instruments. It can also be good to speak/sing praises to God while accompanied by instruments. It is good to praise God through any work of our hands... including the production of sound through tools (called instruments).

Each man is given convictions by the Holy Spirit. Not every man has the same convictions. Let us not burden others with convictions that the Holy Spirit has given to us alone.


Let's not continue to be divided over petty preferences.

 

[MsLimpet]

If a person cannot pay attention to the words when singing with an accompaniment, then they should go to a church that doesn't use instruments. That is their personal conviction, and to ignore it would be a sin.

What has happened here is: a famous minister had such a conviction, and confused his personal conviction with the Word of God. He lead his entire congregation, and affiliated congregations, to hold themselves to such a standard (much like the additions to the Torah made by the Pharisees through the Talmud [Oral Torah]. These congregations now hold to this teaching as a doctrine, regardless of Biblical context. They have rationalized the teaching by reading their agenda into the Word of God. They now preach this doctrine as if it is a part of the Gospel. What was once a good thing has now been twisted into a division in the Body of Christ.
It is good to speak/sing praises to God without instruments. It can also be good to speak/sing praises to God while accompanied by instruments. It is good to praise God through any work of our hands... including the production of sound through tools (called instruments).

Each man is given convictions by the Holy Spirit. Not every man has the same convictions. Let us not burden others with convictions that the Holy Spirit has given to us alone.


Let's not continue to be divided over petty preferences.

I just go by what the bible teaches, you can have your opinion but does that make it right?

 

[presidente]

MsLimpet,

I don't find any example of your approach to the Old Testament scriptures in the New Testament. If you can't either, by your own rules, you have not authority for your approach to the Old Testament.

What I do see is that early Christians were Jews and were apparently active in the temple. In Acts 15, the controversy was over weather to circumcise Gentiles and have them obey the law of Moses-- stop eating pork and shrimp, not wear mixed fabrics, keep Jewish feasts, follow temple rituals, etc.

When the apostles and elders met, they did not decide for themselves, as Jews, to start eating pork or stop circumcising their children. Instead, they considered what the Holy Spirit was doing among the Gentiles. Then James pointed out that the Old Testament that God was gathering a people for Himself from among the remnant of nations ('man'). Therefore, the Gentiles did not have to part of their nation to worship God.

But the did percieve the Spirit wanted them to advise the Gentiles to abstain from certain things that one can see that the Old Testament scriptures indicate are sinful for Gentiles. God gave Noah, ancestor of Jew and Gentile, all kinds of animals to eat, but not the blood. So Gentiles are not allowed to eat things strangled or blood. It was sinful for Gentiles to commit adultery, so they should abstain from meat offered to idols. God drove Gentiles out of the land for various sexual sins. They forbad adultery.

In Acts 22, Paulgoes into the temple to pay the expenses of some men undergoing some ritual (possibly a sacrifice for a Nazarite vow, and he may have been going to get a haircut, too.) When James and the elders met with him, it is clear that they expected the Jewish diaspora believers to keep the customs and circumcise their sons, but not the Gentile believers.

The apostles did not just throw the Old Testament in the trash can. And it is obvious they did not take your approach to the Old Testament. Where is the authority for your hermeneutic? How is it compatible with the apostles' approach to the Hebrew scriptures?