SALVATION ONLY POSSIBLE WITHOUT WORKS!

[ChosenbyHim]

Teaching one can not lose salvation is a false teaching. Jesus, Paul, James all taught that some will fall away and Jesus even said some of the elect will be fooled into following the anti-Christ. Now the Lord does not take it away, you by choosing to turn your back on Him and deny Him loses it.

No; the teaching of Eternal Security and eternal salvation is Bible Doctrine.

Where does Paul ever teach that some will lose salvation?

The Lord Jesus said " if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."


Now Eternal Security is not for every dispensation. It is mainly for the Church Age.

And the only people who will have Eternal Security in the time of Jacob's trouble will be the 144,000 sealed servants of God from the twelve tribes of Israel (Rev. 7:3-8).

 

[haz]

Matthew 7:21-23

"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Hi Shyness,

What is God's will?
John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

This is consistent with the gospel of grace.
This is also consistent with the works Jesus told us to do, John 6:29.

And who are those who practice lawlessness and are told to depart from the Lord?
Answer: It's the legalists who preach the law.

Remember that whatever the law says it says to those under it, Rom 3:19
It's the legalists here on this forum who are under the law. And in this they make themselves a sinner.
Gal 2:18
For if I build again the things which I destroyed (righteousness by works of the law) , I make myself a transgressor/SINNER

Here we see scripture confirming that it's the legalists who are told to depart as they chose righteousness by works of the law instead of righteousness by faith. Legalists reject Christ's sacrifice and what it offers us. Instead they have chosen to be under the law. Hence, whatever the law says it says to them. And they will be found guilty (Rom 3:19, James 2:10). They are rightly described as those who practice lawlessness.

As for Christians, however, we believe on Jesus. Our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5. Christ's sacrifice has sanctified us, Heb 10:10. Our life is hid with Christ in God, Col 3:3. Hence Satan, the accuser, cannot charge us with lawlessness.
Rom 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Shyness, if you are following error doctrine that mixes works of the law with grace, God says you cannot do that, Rom 11:6.
He asks you to repent of your dead works and believe on Jesus.

 

[kennethcadwell]

You are using what is called circular logic when you quote that verse. Just cause it says, "if it were possible, " does not mean it does not happen. Plus there are multiple scriptures that speak of those who fall away. I do not have time to name them all right now, but Hebrews 10 is one of many and it shows these who are talked to were sanctified and saved. But turn away through willful sin. Like I mentioned to others to know what a willful sinner as the bible speaks of is one who keeps sinning with out remorse, conviction, and feel they don't need to repent.

Now a question I pose to you from studying scripture: How does one if they fall away, if they then repent and come back to Christ are forgiven. How do they fall if not saved already ?

No; the teaching of Eternal Security and eternal salvation is Bible Doctrine.

Where does Paul ever teach that some will lose salvation?

The Lord Jesus said " if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."


Now Eternal Security is not for every dispensation. It is mainly for the Church Age.

And the only people who will have Eternal Security in the time of Jacob's trouble will be the 144,000 sealed servants of God from the twelve tribes of Israel (Rev. 7:3-8).

 

[Cassian]

You will have to forgive me, I based my answer on biblical truth, Not your churches perversion of truth.

I am saved now. Paul said it over and over, Jesus said it over and over, Your church is off base. And this proves yet once again, your trying to earn salvation.

If i was not saved, If I did not have the HS as my guarantee, If I was not adopted as Gods child who he said he would never cast out. Non of the things I posted would be possible.



No, I inherited Gods promise based on HIS faithfulness. I can never be good enough, to earn any inheritance.

Again, Paul rejects your notion.

eph 1: [SUP]3 [/SUP]Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, [SUP]4 [/SUP]just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, [SUP]5 [/SUP]having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, [SUP]6 [/SUP]to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace [SUP]8 [/SUP]which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence,

My inheritance is guaranteed by the HS given to me. and can not be taken away

[SUP]13 [/SUP]In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Nothing here is future tense, or something which happens after we get to heaven, Paul said we have these things RIGHT HERE ad RIGHT NOW.



Only according to your false theology.

Not according to God.

So you say, but I don't see any evidence that your view has ever been the teaching of scripture. Even within the sola scriptura milieu most do not interpret scripture the same way. It is a man made invention imposed on scripture by some where the history of it comes right out of the Reformation. You have not proven otherwise to this point.

 

[Cassian]

Look, you are trying to tell them works are important right? Listen, I posted tons of scriptures before with the same people on James where it clearly states that works prove your faith, or in Titus how they are important, or how they decided in Matthew whether people go to hell or not, if they don't want to listen, they don't want to listen.

I even posted the quote from 1 John 3:8 that clearly defines sin as works of the devil.

Basically, I would sugggest you do as Titus 3:9-11 says. Warn them twice about the law, if they do not listen, it is on their own hands.

You can try your best, but if people do not want to listen to what the Bible says, what can you really do?

But God bless you brother because I have tried numerous times.

One should continue to persist, there is always hope of repentance. The Light could go on at any moment.

 

[Cassian]

you can keep on trying

You will never convince us that we can ever earn a gift, or ever be worthy of eternal life no matter how good we are or how much work we do.

If you want to stand in front of God on your own merit. Feel free, Forgive me if even the slightest thought of doing that scares the living hell out of me.. And for that reason, I wish to trust God and his promises.

You should be scared of that also. But evidently the law has not yet worked in you where you think you can still earn something God has stated over and over you will NEVER EARN IT. But only by HIS GRACE MERCY AND FORGIVENESS can you recieve it. All we can do is pray God bring you to that point before it is too late.

Like I stated before also. If you don't understand scripture, then you will misrepresent it. This is a good example, not much you wrote does anyone who is opposing this view even recognizes.

 

[Alligator]

No; the teaching of Eternal Security and eternal salvation is Bible Doctrine.

Where does Paul ever teach that some will lose salvation?

The Lord Jesus said " if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."


Now Eternal Security is not for every dispensation. It is mainly for the Church Age.

And the only people who will have Eternal Security in the time of Jacob's trouble will be the 144,000 sealed servants of God from the twelve tribes of Israel (Rev. 7:3-8).

You are using what is called circular logic when you quote that verse. Just cause it says, "if it were possible, " does not mean it does not happen. Plus there are multiple scriptures that speak of those who fall away. I do not have time to name them all right now, but Hebrews 10 is one of many and it shows these who are talked to were sanctified and saved. But turn away through willful sin. Like I mentioned to others to know what a willful sinner as the bible speaks of is one who keeps sinning with out remorse, conviction, and feel they don't need to repent.

Now a question I pose to you from studying scripture: How does one if they fall away, if they then repent and come back to Christ are forgiven. How do they fall if not saved already ?

if people would read more scripture and less of John Calvin they would be a great deal better off.Gal. 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. You can't fall from a place you've never been. I don't know how Paul could have been clearer. See also II pet. 2:20-21; Heb. 6:4-6; Heb. 10:26-27; etc.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Can You Lose Your Salvation?


Go to this site and read for help in seeing scriptures that point to how one loses salvation.

 

[Cassian]

God made the promise.

if God takes it back because I am faithless. God must deny himself.

2 Timothy 2:13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself.

This is another one of those proof texts OSAS people use as well. They pick the last couple of phrases and don't follow the subject. It clearly says that if you deny Christ, He will deny you. That is a solid promise. A promise He cannot deny.
The next phrase is not saying He is being faithful to you, but to His promise which He just made.

 

[Alligator]

Can You Lose Your Salvation?


Go to this site and read for help in seeing scriptures that point to how one loses salvation.

That's a good article. He uses many of the same scriptures that I do to prove OSAS is just plain baloney.

 

[Cassian]

How would you deal with the believer being sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption? Eph 4:30

I contend that we are saved the moment we believe and receive the Holy Spirit. We are glorified when we enter heaven for we will be like our risen Lord. Time only matters to those who are under its domain. God inhabits eternity and sees us not only today but also in eternity like we are there now.

The more you post the more I become concerned that you are not saved by the biblical definition of saved. Your soteriology is all messed up.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Again you misunderstand both what I have stated, and others, as well as scripture. Scripture clearly states that one takes possession of their salvaiton upon belief, repentance and baptism. But it is all up to man to live out the conditions that you agreed when you entered. If you don't, then the promise will not be inherited. It is being saved for you at the finish line. You inherit it IF you have remained faithful. It is very simple to understand, but when one distorts scripture to the exclusion of all the conditions attended to one's personal salvation, it becomes false.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

You are using what is called circular logic when you quote that verse. Just cause it says, "if it were possible, " does not mean it does not happen. Plus there are multiple scriptures that speak of those who fall away. I do not have time to name them all right now, but Hebrews 10 is one of many and it shows these who are talked to were sanctified and saved. But turn away through willful sin. Like I mentioned to others to know what a willful sinner as the bible speaks of is one who keeps sinning with out remorse, conviction, and feel they don't need to repent.

Well I did a search on the phrase: "fall away." And it only appears twice in Scripture. The first occurence of this prhase is found in Luke 8:13, and the last time it occurs is in Hebrews 6:6.

Now it seems to me though that you are quoting the one from Heb. 6:6.

Hebrews 6 is Doctrinally pointed at Hebrews in the time of Jacob's trouble.

And while Salvation today in the Dispensation of Grace is unconditional.

In the time of Jacob's trouble (Next Dispensation which will follow sometime after the Rapture of the Body of Christ); that will no longer be so. Salvation in the 7 year tribulation will be conditional because a tribulation saint will have to endure unto the end by not taking the mark of the beast in order to make it into the Millennial Kingdom.

Now a question I pose to you from studying scripture: How does one if they fall away, if they then repent and come back to Christ are forgiven. How do they fall if not saved already ?

Well again Kenneth; in the time of Jacob's trouble, salvation will be conditional. In the time of Jacob's trouble; for one to be made a partaker of Christ, they must hold stedfast their hope and confidence firm unto the end (Heb. 3:6, 14).

Faith will not be the only requirement for salvation in Daniel's 70th week. One's faith will need works to accompany it for salvation in the tribulation period (James 2:14-26).

If a Jew or Gentile places their faith and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ in the tribulation period, they then must hold fast their confidence and rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

If they do not endure to the end, and they end up sinning willfully by taking the mark of the beast, then they fall away, and hence, lose their salvation.

And that is why salvation is conditional in the time of Jacob's trouble.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I am talking about Hebrews 10, and it is not talking about at the time of Jacob's trouble. He is speaking to those at that time that have accepted Jesus but then through willful sin turn away from Him. It is an example for us to follow by as well. Even though as you say the phrase fall away only appears twice. There are multiple scriptures that talk about those who fall away using other wording, but meaning the same.

 

[Alligator]

Well I did a search on the phrase: "fall away." And it only appears twice in Scripture. The first occurence of this prhase is found in Luke 8:13, and the last time it occurs is in Hebrews 6:6.

Now it seems to me though that you are quoting the one from Heb. 6:6.

Hebrews 6 is Doctrinally pointed at Hebrews in the time of Jacob's trouble.

And while Salvation today in the Dispensation of Grace is unconditional.

In the time of Jacob's trouble (Next Dispensation which will follow sometime after the Rapture of the Body of Christ); that will no longer be so. Salvation in the 7 year tribulation will be conditional because a tribulation saint will have to endure unto the end by not taking the mark of the beast in order to make it into the Millennial Kingdom.






Well again Kenneth; in the time of Jacob's trouble, salvation will be conditional. In the time of Jacob's trouble; for one to be made a partaker of Christ, they must hold stedfast their hope and confidence firm unto the end (Heb. 3:6, 14).

Faith will not be the only requirement for salvation in Daniel's 70th week. One's faith will need works to accompany it for salvation in the tribulation period (James 2:14-26).

If a Jew or Gentile places their faith and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ in the tribulation period, they then must hold fast their confidence and rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

If they do not endure to the end, and they end up sinning willfully by taking the mark of the beast, then they fall away, and hence, lose their salvation.

And that is why salvation is conditional in the time of Jacob's trouble.

how about book, chapter and verse please because I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

how about book, chapter and verse please because I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Where and what exactly did I lose you on in my post?

 

[ChosenbyHim]

I am talking about Hebrews 10, and it is not talking about at the time of Jacob's trouble. He is speaking to those at that time that have accepted Jesus but then through willful sin turn away from Him. It is an example for us to follow by as well. Even though as you say the phrase fall away only appears twice. There are multiple scriptures that talk about those who fall away using other wording, but meaning the same.

Yes Hebrews 10 is about the time of Jacob's trouble.

Read all of Hebrews. The attention is clearly on the Jews.

In the time of Jacob's trouble (Daniel's 70th week) the focus is back on the Nation of Israel.

And the willful sin that will damn a man in the time of Jacob's trouble is taking the mark of the beast as I already showed you. See Revelation 14:9-12.

Today in the Church Age though; a believer cannot lose salvation. Since he is sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise (Eph. 1:13). And also because he is a member of Christ's Body (Eph. 5:30).

 

[Alligator]

how about book, chapter and verse please because I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Where and what exactly did I lose you on in my post?

Pretty much at the beginning . All this about in the time of "Jacob's trouble" as you call it, salvation was conditional then (but apparently not now). And just about every thing else you said. What does any of that have to do with the question at hand??

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Pretty much at the beginning . All this about in the time of "Jacob's trouble" as you call it, salvation was conditional then (but apparently not now). And just about every thing else you said. What does any of that have to do with the question at hand??

Well Alli, the means of salvation in the time of Jacob's trouble will be different than it is now.

The Gospel of the Kingdom will be preached in the time of Jacob's trouble (Matt. 24:14), and the Gospel of the Kingdom is a Gospel of endurance.

The Gospel we preach today is not the Gospel of the Kingdom.

But the Gospel which we preach today is the Gospel of the Grace of God.

Also, the time of Jacob's trouble is what is commonly called the 7 year tribulation period, where the world will be under the temprary reign of the antichrist (Satan incarnate).

 

[Alligator]

Pretty much at the beginning . All this about in the time of "Jacob's trouble" as you call it, salvation was conditional then (but apparently not now). And just about every thing else you said. What does any of that have to do with the question at hand??

Well Alli, the means of salvation in the time of Jacob's trouble will be different than it is now.

The Gospel of the Kingdom will be preached in the time of Jacob's trouble (Matt. 24:14), and the Gospel of the Kingdom is a Gospel of endurance.

The Gospel we preach today is not the Gospel of the Kingdom.

But the Gospel which we preach today is the Gospel of the Grace of God.

Also, the time of Jacob's trouble is what is commonly called the 7 year tribulation period, where the world will be under the temprary reign of the antichrist (Satan incarnate).

First of all there is only one Gospel, and that is the gospel of Christ. Romans 1:16; Acts 14:7. The book of Hebrews goes into great detail about the insufficiency of animal blood to take away sins, only Christ could do that. Our salvation has always been conditional. See I John I:7-9

 

[ChosenbyHim]

First of all there is only one Gospel,

That is incorrect. There are mainly two Gospels in the New Testament. There is the Gospel of the Grace of God (Death, Burial, and Resurrection) See Acts 20:24 and 1 Cor. 15:1-6.


Then there is the Everlasting Gospel (the Gospel of the Kingdom) see Matthew 24:14 and Revelation 14:6.

and that is the gospel of Christ. Romans 1:16; Acts 14:7. The book of Hebrews goes into great detail about the insufficiency of animal blood to take away sins, only Christ could do that. Our salvation has always been conditional. See I John I:7-9

Well Alli, the blood of animals indeed could not take away sin, they could only cover them. Only the precious blood of the Lord Jesus Christ can wash and take away sin.


Our salvation is not conditional today. The context of 1 John 1:7-9 is fellowship. Not salvation.