SALVATION ONLY POSSIBLE WITHOUT WORKS!

[eternally-gratefull]

Sorry this took longer than expected, distractions in real life and CC was messing up when I tried to make certain fonts bigger to highlight the important points.

First, we start off with Ephesians:

Ephesians 2:8-9

King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Not of works, lest any man should boast.

That says that we are saved through our faith. Therefore, Faith is required to enter Heaven.

It says we HAVE BEEN saved. this is an event which is already completed. No where in this passage does it say we MIGHT be saved, thats changing the word of God

In addition, it is saying that works as such like 100 pounds isnt required to enter heaven [someone only has 90 pounds, they cant enter Heaven, etc. Its saying that is not true].

it says our already recieved and completed salvation has been already given to us apart from works. we have been saved, sign sealed and delivered as paul tells us in eph 1: 13 - 14.

Eph 1: 13 - 14 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

not only are we saved, but we are guaranteed this salvation not based on our work, but based on Gods promise, to HIS PRAISE and HIS GLORY

James 2:14-17

King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
[SUP]15 [/SUP]If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

James 2:18

King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

James 2:26

King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

2 Timothy 3:17

King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

A dead faith is NO FAITH AT ALL.

How can one be saved BY FAITH of they do not have faith.

James is not telling you to test someone elses faith to see if it is real, or if they can lose salovation, He is telling you to test YOUR OWN FAITH to see if it is real.

he is talking to mere believers, people who do not have faith, who continue to live in the world with NO CHANGE. He telss them flat out, if you CLAIM you have faiht, but have no works to back your faith up. you better check again, because you have decieved yourself,

TO Recap what the above has said:
1) We are saved through our faith, this is because of Grace
2) A specific amount of works, such as 100 pound requirement, is not what is expected
3) Works prove your faith.

Therefore, we can easily understand that works are a requirement of your salvation. We are saved through faith because of grace. Our works proves our faith. In addition, a specific amount of works such as 100 pounds is not required. However, that does not mean works are not required. As stated, works prove your faith.

dude if you can not even get this right, why bother going on.

1. Did James contradict paul? according to you yes he did
2. You destroy the context of james, who is not saying works is required, but that works should be a measurement tool for YOU to test YOUR OWN FAITH.

ps. could you please try to use only one font, I do not have time trying to correct my fonts when I respond to try to make it sound like I am not screeming.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Some wanted nothing to do with Abraham nor any of the patriots for the fear of associating with the Jews and their errors and thus stayed ignorant.
Paul said "for I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. They all ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. Nevertheless, God was not please with most of them; their bodies were scattered over the desert. Now these things occurred as examples to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did..."
So ignorant one remains.

yes, I agree.

what we know about them is they NEVER HAD FAITH, they complained from day one, their lives did not show the change of God which showed in Moses and the few others that went in.

it should be a warning to us..

true faith will show true trust.. and true trusting of God wil show true results in out life.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1) I never said that.
2) I did, I bolded the specific parts to make it simple. Its a lot of Bible quotes, I know it takes time to read, but its the only way for you to understand.

3) I never said he lied. If you clearly read the verses, it means that the strangers never knew him. Jesus is God, or even if you think hes just the son, he was with God when everyone was created. He knows what you're thinking, and God knows every hair on your head. He knows who you are, the strangers however, did not. Therefore, since Christ dwells within us and the verses talk about how they didn't help the strangers, it is obvious he means that they never helped the stranger "[SUP]45 [/SUP]Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me." <-- quoted from my post

You are still not answering. You are walking in circles my friend.

Did Jesus lie when he said "I NEVER KNEW YOU" or did he not.

Of course they never did those things, THEY NEVER HAD FAITH IN GOD, THERE FAITH WAS IN THEIR RELIGIOS WORKS. THESE are LEGALISTS HE IS TALKING TO, NOT LICENTIOUS PEOPLE WHO CONTINUED TO LIVE LIKE THE WORLD.

That is what legalists do. They do all these religious works, thinking they are ok with God. but they do not do the little things. They are hypocrites. Why do you think I fight legalism so hard. IT DESTROYS GODS MESSAGE< and GIVES GOD A BAD NAME.

 

[haz]

Theres a difference between Good works and Bad works

Matthew 25:31-46

King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP]When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
[SUP]35 [/SUP]For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
[SUP]38 [/SUP]When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
[SUP]39 [/SUP]Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
[SUP]42 [/SUP]For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
[SUP]43 [/SUP]I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Scripture is SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED, 1Cor2:14.


Regarding Matt 25; the sheep and goats, below are some scriptures to give the spiritual context to what is feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, taking in the stranger, etc.


What is the spiritual food/drink that mankind is in need of?
It's Christ Jesus.
1 Cor 10:3-4
And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.


Who are those in spiritual prison?
It's those who are without Christ.
Isa 61:1
The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;


And what is the state of mankind without Christ?
It's sick, and needing to hear the gospel of Christ.
Isa 1:5-6
Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.


And how are the naked clothed?
Isa 61:10
I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, My soul shall be joyful in my God; For He has clothed me with the garments of salvation, He has covered me with the robe of righteousness,


And who is the stranger?
Eph 2:12
that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.


Eph 2:19
Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,


So we see scripture speaking in spiritual terms regarding preaching the gospel of grace. And in doing the works of believing in Jesus, John 6:29, Christians also let their light shine preaching the gospel of Christ to spiritually feed, clothe, heal and set free, the lost.
Matt 5:14-16
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works (believing in Jesus, John 6:29), and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 7:21-23

King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Here we see the gospel of grace contrasted with those in rebellion against God seeking to establish their own righteousness.
1: Those who do the will of God and enter the Kingdom of God.
AND
2: Those who work iniquity/lawlessness and told to depart from the Lord.

Those who do the will of God are those under the gospel of grace.
The will of God is seen in John 6:40.
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

And those who work iniquity/lawlessness are the legalists.
They reject Christ's sacrifice and turn instead to the law for righteousness.

Now whatever the law says it says to those UNDER IT, Rom 3:19.
As the legalists are under the law then they can be charged with Transgression/Sin/Lawlessness/Iniquity.
And they will fail to meet it's requirement for perfect obedience (James 2:10, Rom 3:19) and be guilty of ALL the law.

Hence we see that it's those preaching the law who are the workers of iniquity that Matt 7:23 speaks of.

 

[DavidLOVESsnow]

It says we HAVE BEEN saved. this is an event which is already completed. No where in this passage does it say we MIGHT be saved, thats changing the word of God

<-- no it doesnt. It says "are ye saved" meaning, you can be saved or you will be saved through your faith. You just changed the word of God, not me.

it says our already recieved and completed salvation has been already given to us apart from works. we have been saved, sign sealed and delivered as paul tells us in eph 1: 13 - 14.

Eph 1: 13 - 14 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

not only are we saved, but we are guaranteed this salvation not based on our work, but based on Gods promise, to HIS PRAISE and HIS GLORY
<-- Listen, you misunderstand. I would advise you read Matthew 13. Remember the parable about the sower? There were people who accepted the word of God, but still failed. You misunderstand the verse you quoted.

A dead faith is NO FAITH AT ALL.

How can one be saved BY FAITH of they do not have faith. <-- Exactly, and it says that Faith WITHOUT WORKS is Dead, therefore proving my point. I dont see why you just agreed with me, but I think you just confused yourself.

James is not telling you to test someone elses faith to see if it is real, or if they can lose salovation, He is telling you to test YOUR OWN FAITH to see if it is real. <-- Of course not, Judge lest you be judged. Of course its about yourself, hes telling you to do good works...

he is talking to mere believers, people who do not have faith, <-- When you wrote this, you obviously didnt notice you contridicted yourself
who continue to live in the world with NO CHANGE. He telss them flat out, if you CLAIM you have faiht, but have no works to back your faith up. you better check again, because you have decieved yourself, <-- exactly. Faith without works is dead. So why are you arguing with me?



dude if you can not even get this right, why bother going on.

1. Did James contradict paul? according to you yes he did <-- No, I think you just misunderstand Pauk
2. You destroy the context of james, who is not saying works is required, but that works should be a measurement tool for YOU to test YOUR OWN FAITH. <-- According to Ephesians, I am not destroying the context of James. Works prove your faith, therefore since Faith is required to enter Heaven, Works get you into Heaven. If I made it to equal math:

Faith + Grace = Salvation
(Good Works + Belief in God) + Grace = Salvation

ps. could you please try to use only one font, I do not have time trying to correct my fonts when I respond to try to make it sound like I am not screeming.

<-- It was because people kept missing the key points to the verses, so I had no point but to enlarge it so it was unable to miss.

There, I hope that cleared it up for you.

 

[DavidLOVESsnow]

You are still not answering. You are walking in circles my friend.

Did Jesus lie when he said "I NEVER KNEW YOU" or did he not.

Of course they never did those things, THEY NEVER HAD FAITH IN GOD, THERE FAITH WAS IN THEIR RELIGIOS WORKS. THESE are LEGALISTS HE IS TALKING TO, NOT LICENTIOUS PEOPLE WHO CONTINUED TO LIVE LIKE THE WORLD.

That is what legalists do. They do all these religious works, thinking they are ok with God. but they do not do the little things. They are hypocrites. Why do you think I fight legalism so hard. IT DESTROYS GODS MESSAGE< and GIVES GOD A BAD NAME.

Listen, calm down, and read what I posted. I answered your question. Just read what I said before commenting.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Listen, calm down, and read what I posted. I answered your question. Just read what I said before commenting.

1. I did read it.
2. It does not say they never knew him, It says God never knew them.

Yes God knows us, but that is not what is being spoken of here, The "KNOW" in this passage is a personal relationship.

I can know who someone is, But it does not mean I KNOW THEM.

So again, Are you going to tell me why God lied, and said HE NEVER KNEW THEM?

 

[haz]

Is this spiritual? If you read it, and you realize it's talking about things you shouldn't do, like judging, boasting, and lusting, it is not spiritual. It's saying what is right and whats wrong. If you read the entire Chapter, you will understand that.

There, now you attacked the one verse of James 4:17, what about all the other verses?

You do as you did in previous discussions. You just discount anything you don't agree without offering any relevant argument.

Consider 1Cor 2:13,14.
These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

BTW, have you found any scripture with specifics detailing how much good deeds must be done?
And considering that even non-Christians do good deeds too, how does your claim differeniate Christians good deeds from non-Christians good deeds?

Also, good night folks. It's late here in Australia and I've got an early start at work tomorrow.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There, I hope that cleared it up for you.

It says we HAVE BEEN saved. this is an event which is already completed. No where in this passage does it say we MIGHT be saved, thats changing the word of God

<-- no it doesnt. It says "are ye saved" meaning, you can be saved or you will be saved through your faith. You just changed the word of God, not me.

1st, you need to get rid of your king jimmy, or learn how to read it.
2nd. The word in the greek states specifically an even which happened in the past, and at the present time is in effect.

Your argument is with God. not me.

 

[DavidLOVESsnow]

Scripture is SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED, 1Cor2:14.


Regarding Matt 25; the sheep and goats, below are some scriptures to give the spiritual context to what is feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, taking in the stranger, etc.


What is the spiritual food/drink that mankind is in need of?
It's Christ Jesus.
1 Cor 10:3-4
And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.


Who are those in spiritual prison?
It's those who are without Christ.
Isa 61:1
The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;


And what is the state of mankind without Christ?
It's sick, and needing to hear the gospel of Christ.
Isa 1:5-6
Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.


And how are the naked clothed?
Isa 61:10
I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, My soul shall be joyful in my God; For He has clothed me with the garments of salvation, He has covered me with the robe of righteousness,


And who is the stranger?
Eph 2:12
that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.


Eph 2:19
Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,


So we see scripture speaking in spiritual terms regarding preaching the gospel of grace. And in doing the works of believing in Jesus, John 6:29, Christians also let their light shine preaching the gospel of Christ to spiritually feed, clothe, heal and set free, the lost.
Matt 5:14-16
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works (believing in Jesus, John 6:29), and glorify your Father which is in heaven.


Here we see the gospel of grace contrasted with those in rebellion against God seeking to establish their own righteousness.
1: Those who do the will of God and enter the Kingdom of God.
AND
2: Those who work iniquity/lawlessness and told to depart from the Lord.

Those who do the will of God are those under the gospel of grace.
The will of God is seen in John 6:40.
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

And those who work iniquity/lawlessness are the legalists.
They reject Christ's sacrifice and turn instead to the law for righteousness.

Now whatever the law says it says to those UNDER IT, Rom 3:19.
As the legalists are under the law then they can be charged with Transgression/Sin/Lawlessness/Iniquity.
And they will fail to meet it's requirement for perfect obedience (James 2:10, Rom 3:19) and be guilty of ALL the law.

Hence we see that it's those preaching the law who are the workers of iniquity that Matt 7:23 speaks of.

You brought the same argument up before and I refuted you on this, why are you bringing it up again? So, here we go agai. Your claim that scripture is all spiritual because of 1 Corinthians 10:3-4. You forget that that verse DOES NOT say that. Let me remind you what it is saying again:

[h=3]Numbers 20:1-12[/h]King James Version (KJV)

20 Then came the children of Israel, even the whole congregation, into the desert of Zin in the first month: and the people abode in Kadesh; and Miriam died there, and was buried there.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And there was no water for the congregation: and they gathered themselves together against Moses and against Aaron.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And the people chode with Moses, and spake, saying, Would God that we had died when our brethren died before the Lord!
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And why have ye brought up the congregation of the Lord into this wilderness, that we and our cattle should die there?
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And wherefore have ye made us to come up out of Egypt, to bring us in unto this evil place? it is no place of seed, or of figs, or of vines, or of pomegranates; neither is there any water to drink.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they fell upon their faces: and the glory of the Lord appeared unto them.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Take the rod, and gather thou the assembly together, thou, and Aaron thy brother, and speak ye unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water, and thou shalt bring forth to them water out of the rock: so thou shalt give the congregation and their beasts drink.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And Moses took the rod from before the Lord, as he commanded him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And Moses and Aaron gathered the congregation together before the rock, and he said unto them, Hear now, ye rebels; must we fetch you water out of this rock?
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the Lord spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them.

So why did Moses not get into the promise land? Because he smote the rock when he was supposed to speak to it... it was the rock mentioned in your Bible quote. Therefore, your entire logic of scripture being spiritually concerned is false. You also know I proved this to you before, so I dont know why you try again.

All of your quotes are not in correlation to the quotes I am posting. If you read the Bible quote you would have known that. Also, you LITERALLY just copied and pasted your previous argument, I should just do the same and save me effort.

Also, I like how I am labelled a legalist. I don't even know what that is exactly, I just follow what the Bible says.

On your last comment, you forget this "Love thy neighbour as thyself" that correlates with EVERYTHING I have posted. Please, just read what I posted. You know I have posted this before, and yet you wont listen to me.

Seriously man, I can go back and find when I posted my original comments to you, and just paste them here. You know you are wrong.

 

[DavidLOVESsnow]

You do as you did in previous discussions. You just discount anything you don't agree without offering any relevant argument.

Consider 1Cor 2:13,14.
These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

BTW, have you found any scripture with specifics detailing how much good deeds must be done?
And considering that even non-Christians do good deeds too, how does your claim differeniate Christians good deeds from non-Christians good deeds?

Also, good night folks. It's late here in Australia and I've got an early start at work tomorrow.

Read what I posted earlier. Love thy neighbour as thyself explains that, In MAtthew 5 Jesus talked about things on it, etc. etc. Read the Bible.

Also, if you are correct [even though you know you are wrong, we went through this before], then explain. Was The commandment tablets literal or spiritual? Did they really exist? Or was adam really spirtiual and not real, or the Garden of Eden just spiritual and not a real place... Come on Dude, seriously? Besides I already refuted you before, why do we have to go through this again for a second time? Especially when you reposted your corinthians quote after I showed you its true meaning.

 

[DavidLOVESsnow]

1. I did read it.
2. It does not say they never knew him, It says God never knew them.

Yes God knows us, but that is not what is being spoken of here, The "KNOW" in this passage is a personal relationship.

I can know who someone is, But it does not mean I KNOW THEM.

So again, Are you going to tell me why God lied, and said HE NEVER KNEW THEM?

You didn't read what I said. I said the strangers didnt know him, Jesus said as much as you treated them you treated me [to paraphrase], therefore they didnt know them, so Jesus said he didnt know them. Its that simple. Also, dont put words in my mouth please.

 

[Grandpa]

In addition, im not twisting scripture. It says real Christians cast out demons. They were able to cast out demons, yet they were sent to hell... why? - explain your reasoning then, and then refute all the Bible quotes above please to prove your point.

Mark 9:38-39
[SUP]38 [/SUP]And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

The Lord didn't know these people but they used His Name to cast out demons. His Name can be used to do lots of good things.

But people who think these good things are what gets them into heaven are what the Lord Jesus is rebuking.

Matthew 7:21-23

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


They thought they were christians because of all their good works but they are surprised when they find out those good works aren't what gets them into the kingdom of God.

Titus 3:3-7

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But after that (foolishness, disobedience, etc) the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
[SUP]7 [/SUP]That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

By the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost. What does that mean?

John 15:4-5

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.


But what about all your good works???

Galatians 3:1-3
[SUP]1[/SUP]O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
[SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?


Are you really that foolish? The Lord Saved you by His Grace, By His Spirit, By His Power, and now you think you will be perfected by your work???

Do you think it makes more sense that His Work in You is what will cause your good works to shine forth, if you have any good works in you???

There are many ways to condemn people. There is only one way to be removed from condemnation. That is by the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

in eph 2: 8.. the words "are ye" (kjv) or "have been" are not found in the origional greek. The words are added by men in an attempt to portray what the author was actually saying.
the word used is sesosmenoi, it is a

1. Verb
2. Perfect tense (meaning it has already been completed perfectly)
3. It means that in the past. something was done, and at the present time, it has been completed completely.
What is it that is completed perfectly? SALVATION>

 

[DavidLOVESsnow]

[/COLOR]1st, you need to get rid of your king jimmy, or learn how to read it.
2nd. The word in the greek states specifically an even which happened in the past, and at the present time is in effect.

Your argument is with God. not me. [/SIZE][/B]

1) Do research on the KJV. Best translation to ever exist, and my Bible itself that I own is over 100 years old. Also, I know how to read it.
2) Seriously? Okay, first off cite your position on the greek text, second of all, explain to me how professional linguistics of the 1600s got it wrong but you got it right, and 3rdly are you sure it means faith is in the past or that grace was given in the past? BIg difference, Also, Greek itself isnt understood the same way as English. However, I'd love to see your answer to this. Especially when you know how many genius scolars there were working on the KJV compared to today's versions.

 

[Vaudeville]

okay. but how many of your good works will weigh in the balance on judgment day? do you do them to be saved? how many and of what quality should they be?

by the way, i don't actually believe you do your best to help every homeless person. take another look at your claim. you know it's not true. even if it were (it's not), what about all those other good works you aren't doing, even though you know you should.

Sorry this took longer than expected, distractions in real life and CC was messing up when I tried to make certain fonts bigger to highlight the important points.

First, we start off with Ephesians:

Ephesians 2:8-9

King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Not of works, lest any man should boast.

That says that we are saved through our faith. Therefore, Faith is required to enter Heaven. In addition, it is saying that works as such like 100 pounds isnt required to enter heaven [someone only has 90 pounds, they cant enter Heaven, etc. Its saying that is not true].

so this should be the end of your quandry. it's absolutely clear.

James 2:14-17
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
[SUP]15 [/SUP]If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

look. is this really hard for you to get? james is clearly saying, to christians, that if one of their christian brothers and sisters * is is need and of help for the basics of survival and that christian knowingly walks away, does that person really love his christian brother or sister? CLEARLY NOT.

look at what he SAID: "Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled"; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body

james isn't demanding people go to africa and dig wells or tithe or anything like that. it's a simple lesson exactly like Christ's concerning the robbed man lying in the ditch. it's evidence of a heart NOT MOVED. it's not saying faith alone doesn't save. it's saying that man's "faith" is DEAD. dead faith is no faith. get it?

James 2:18

King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

how many times do you have to read this before you understand what james is saying?

James 2:26

King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

followed hard by:

2 Timothy 3:17

King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

even though 2 timothy is talking about pastors, it's still perfectly consistent with this:

Ephesians 2
2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

TO Recap what the above has said:
1) We are saved through our faith, this is because of Grace
2) A specific amount of works, such as 100 pound requirement, is not what is expected
3) Works prove your faith.

works prove your faith to whom? good works are what the new man DOES. no proving necessary.
i need that list, btw.

Therefore, we can easily understand that works are a requirement of your salvation.

then you'll have something to boast about.

Ephesians 2
2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

To continue, I will be adressing the scriptures you didn't understand my perspective on. However, with just reading what I posted above should be enough.

Matthew 25:31-46

King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP]When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
[SUP]
34 [/SUP]Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
[SUP]35 [/SUP]For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
[SUP]38 [/SUP]When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
[SUP]39 [/SUP]Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
[SUP]42 [/SUP]For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
[SUP]43 [/SUP]I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

so kind muslims who give christians shelter will go into the kingdom? that's what the judgment is about?
when are muslims or pharisees ever referred to as sheep? Christ's redeemed are sheep. unbelievers are goats. read it again.

notice the sheep weren't even aware what they did was doing to the Lord. they were just doing what their new heart led them to do.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Matthew 7:21-23

King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I never knew you

oudepote
From oude and pote; not even at any time, i.e. Never at all -- neither at any time, never, nothing at any time.
he never knew them. they weren't his. it's very clear. false conversions.

Mark 16:16-18

King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
[SUP]18 [/SUP]They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

so casting out devils is a required work? that was the apostles and those he gave authority to. they were his witnesses.
today's pretenders may wish to take another look at this warning:

Matthew 7:21-23

King James Version (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Now what the above things are stating are the follows:
First quote is about how because they did not help their fellow neighbours [love thy neighbour] and do good works to them, they were sent to hell. The second quote is about how Christians, who did not help anybody still went to hell, the last quote is to prove they are Christians.

There, I simplified everything.

no you didn't.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You didn't read what I said. I said the strangers didnt know him, Jesus said as much as you treated them you treated me [to paraphrase], therefore they didnt know them, so Jesus said he didnt know them. Its that simple. Also, dont put words in my mouth please.

lol.. So he did not know them ONLY because they did not do what you said.

I have never seen someone try to twist something so out of context in order to keep himself from seeing truth as this.

He said HE NEVER KNEW THEM.

WHich means THEY WERE NEVER SAVED>

IF they were ever saved, Jesus would have had to say something to the effect ot, "I knew you, I brought you into my house, I blessed you with so many things, But you walked away from me, and went back to your sinfull ways of practicing lawlessness"

But he did not say this now did he?

 

[DavidLOVESsnow]

in eph 2: 8.. the words "are ye" (kjv) or "have been" are not found in the origional greek. The words are added by men in an attempt to portray what the author was actually saying.
the word used is sesosmenoi, it is a

1. Verb
2. Perfect tense (meaning it has already been completed perfectly)
3. It means that in the past. something was done, and at the present time, it has been completed completely.
What is it that is completed perfectly? SALVATION>

No, that would be in context of the sentence Grace. Meaning the sacrifice for Grace, Jesus on the cross, was in the past. Which still makes sense in the context of the Bible.

 

[DavidLOVESsnow]

lol.. So he did not know them ONLY because they did not do what you said.

I have never seen someone try to twist something so out of context in order to keep himself from seeing truth as this.

He said HE NEVER KNEW THEM.

WHich means THEY WERE NEVER SAVED>

IF they were ever saved, Jesus would have had to say something to the effect ot, "I knew you, I brought you into my house, I blessed you with so many things, But you walked away from me, and went back to your sinfull ways of practicing lawlessness"

But he did not say this now did he?

Did you read the Bible?

"Inasmuch as you did it to them, you have done it to me" ... what does that mean?

 

[DavidLOVESsnow]

Lol you know what? Im going to just stop. No matter how many Bible verses I post, no matter what I say, you choose not to Believe. So go ahead, don't believe.

I'm going to listen to Titus 3:9-11 on this issue.

Besides, I need to find a job and do some Bible study.

Seriously though, I have shown you the Bible quotes and how it makes sense. You want to keep arguing, go ahead. I've got too much to do even though I just finished Finals.

However, it honestly appears at times that you purposely are ignorant to what the context of the verses say, it's scarey really.