Speaking in tongues

[just-me]

My pastor wants everyone in church to speak in tongues. We are Baptist but believe in the gifts and practice them. Does speaking in an unknown tongue gives the evidence that we are spirit filed and saved believers? I have friends who are believers in Jesus and they do not practice this. They lead a spirit filled life and are wonderful people of the faith. What does it mean for the whole church to be toungers in the spirit? Who will this edify and how do we interpret this if everyone is babbling? I for one want to be able to know what is being said. He said that he was in Croatia and spoke in tongue, and the people understood him because he was speaking in their native tongue about the Lord. I love the Lord with all my heart and soul,and I have just only talked to him in my native tongue English in which he knows. In speaking in tongue does that make me a super saint and put me on a higher level than other believers? I think after 20 years, I should be at another level in this spiritual journey. I am trying not to use the word Christian...because my pastor says that is the wrong terminology.. We are saved believers. This sets us apart from others who say and use the term Christian..yet they really are not and to remember Christian is not a denomination. Our mandate is to get them to the church..Lead them to Christ...Form community.... Put them to work within the church and pray for church growth and tongue talkers!!!. Is tongues still needed?...or is it just a preference for those who want it?
Just asking.

I'd quit going to that church unless the pastor was voted out. There are better gifts to pursue, even though tongues are relevant today as in Corinth then. Your pastor is off base according to scripture.

1 Corinthians 12:28-31
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret ?
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

There are many gifts of the Spirit for the church's benefit. If the entire congregation focuses on speaking in tongues, the others will be neglected despite the best of intentions. It's not the pastor's call in this respect, even though he has been elected to govern the church, he is not the husband of the bride, he is part of the bride, just as others in the church.

Ezekiel 34:10
10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against the shepherds ; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.

 

[followjja]

I think that it is VERY interesting that Paul said that he spoke in tongues more than anyone else. But in the book of Acts Paul NEVER speaks in tongues, lots of other people do though.

 

[just-me]

I think that it is VERY interesting that Paul said that he spoke in tongues more than anyone else. But in the book of Acts Paul NEVER speaks in tongues, lots of other people do though.

These scriptures say that he actually did. He spoke in Greek to the chief captain, and Hebrew to the Jews.
Acts 21:37-40
37 And as Paul was to be led into the castle, he said unto the chief captain, May I speak unto thee ? Who said , Canst thou speak Greek?
38 Art not thou that Egyptian, which before these days madest an uproar , and leddest out into the wilderness four thousand men that were murderers?
39 But Paul said , I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people.
40 And when he had given him licence , Paul stood on the stairs, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, he spake unto them in the Hebrew tongue, saying ,
Acts 22:1-2
1 Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you.
2 (And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith ,)

 

[notuptome]

This is man-made doctrine, not taught in the scriptures.

Modern day tongues fall perfectly into this description.

Jesus said, "Except ye SEE signs and wonders, ye shall not believe."

Please note that in context Jesus is rebuking the Pharisees for their unbelief not praising them with promises of miracles.

Every case recorded in the NT tongues were a sign for the Jewish people present. Regardless of who is speaking it was always a sign to the Jews. Is that the case today? If not what has changed?

In my opinion which is never humble tongues as practiced in the modern church are so corrupted and perverted that they are nothing more than a money maker for the church's involved.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[followjja]

just-me,

Good point, are you suggesting that Paul did not know how to speak/understand Hebrew? You may be correct, he always quoted out of the Greek O.T.

Also in the 3 contradictory accounts (Acts ch9, ch 22, ch 26) of the light on the road to Damascus--in one account, he is spoken to in the Hebrew language Acts 26:14.

followjja---follow just jesus always

 

[notuptome]

I've been around Pentecostals more than Charismatics.
Try using 'with' instead of 'in' and 'baptized' instead of 'baptism', then search for it.

Here is an example.

Acts 1:5
For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

In your example there is no evidence of tongues?? In Acts 2 we have a filling of the Holy Spirit and Peter speaking in tongues. The Apostles and disciples were baptized with the Holy Spirit in John 20 in the upper room when Jesus breathed upon them the Holy Spirit, correct?

All believers are baptized with the Holy Spirit at the moment they receive Christ as their Savior. Filling of the Holy Spirit for power to minister or witness for the Lord happens many times and tongues are not present even in the NT except for a witness to the Jews. Weird huh?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[just-me]

just-me,

Good point, are you suggesting that Paul did not know how to speak/understand Hebrew? You may be correct, he always quoted out of the Greek O.T.

Also in the 3 contradictory accounts (Acts ch9, ch 22, ch 26) of the light on the road to Damascus--in one account, he is spoken to in the Hebrew language Acts 26:14.

followjja---follow just jesus always

Tongues is a language that somebody can understand. No more, no less. It is also sign for the unbelievers and NOT the believers. Paul knew both Greek and Hebrew and even more.

1 Corinthians 14:22-25
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe , but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe .
23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad ?
24 But if all prophesy , and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

If a person needs a sign to confirm that they are baptized with the Spirit, what does that say? We are to love the Lord our God with our mind as well as our heart and soul.

Prophesying is for the believer, and tongues are for the unbelieving.

 

[SeaBass]

What utter ****!

It is a pity you despise your Heavenly Father's good gifts and desire to walk in unbelief! You (and some others on this forum) certainly fulfill 2Tim 3v5

Acts 2v16-21 shows conclusively that the Baptism in the Holy Spirit and the gifts of the Spirit (including the gift of tongues) are available throughout the whole of the age of Grace, right up until the 2nd Coming of Christ. Acts 2v38,39, 1Cor 12v7-11.

30 years ago, I asked the Lord Jesus for the Holy Spirit and He gave me the Holy Spirit, with the evidence of speaking in tongues, JUST LIKE ON THE DAY OF PENTECOST! The Scriptures tell me that my Heavenly Father only gives the Holy Spirit and good gifts to His dearly beloved children who ask Him for such and that is what I got, JUST LIKE THE SCRIPTURES DESCRIBES! Matt 7v7-11, Acts 2v4, Luke 11v9-13.

Hopefully that is blunt enough for you!

I just follow what the bible says. No one today can speak in tongues as the apostles did in Acts 2.

Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not the one baptism of Eph 4:5. Baptism with the Holy Spirit was a prophecy of Joel that the Lord fulfilled making that baptism obsolete some 2000 years ago.

 

[posthuman]

could someone explain how this section of scripture is encouraging us all to pray in tongues?
Sure Paul uses 'pray' and 'speak' interchangeably in 1 Cor 14:13 he writes 'speak in tongues', then in 14:14, talking about the same thing, he writes, 'pray in tongues'.

that's completely unsatisfactory. Paul was a very well educated and eloquent writer, and those are two completely distinct Greek words with definite and disparate meanings. look at 1 Corinthians 14:13 --
Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret.

can you simply "interchange" the word 'pray' and 'speak' in that verse? that interpretation is completely at odds with Romans 8:26 too, where the same Paul teaches us that the Spirit intercedes in prayer with "groanings too deep for words"

 

[posthuman]

Paul said he spoke in many different toungues more than all of you
which means he was multilingual
clear that toungues should have been translated LANGUAGES
king james committe screwed up

you are right that "tongues" means "languages"
but wrong that the 'king James committee screwed up"
that's literally what the word "tongues" means, though no one tweets the king's English anymore.
in Spanish, for example, the word "lengua" means both the physical part of the body "tongue" and also "language." same word.
if you have trouble understanding Elizabethtan English, read more Shakespeare!

 

[SeaBass]

This is man-made doctrine, not taught in the scriptures. It may actually have been invented by John Calvin. If anyone knows of someone who taught it before him, please let me know.

In the Bible, signs confirmed the word preached. And it wasn't a once-for-all thing where once a miracle was done, the word was confirmed. On the contrary, Peter did miracles in Jerusalem. But when he went to Joppa, he didn't say, "I'm not going to heal this crippled man, Aeneas, to confirm this message, because this word was completely confirmed in Jerusalem by the miracles I did there. And if you want to know that the word was confirmed, we will write down the miracles in the book because reading about the miracles performs the exact same function as seeing them with your own eyes."

I wonder what would happen if you telling an outspoken new atheist that reading about a miracle is the same as seeing it themselves and see what they say.

Jesus said, "Except ye SEE signs and wonders, ye shall not believe."

Sergius Paulus believed the teaching of the Lord after he SAW Elymas blinded.

Jn 20:30,31 "And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name."

The verb "are written" is perfect tense denoting an act done in the past that has a continuing effect. John's point is those signs he wrote down in the past, still have a CONTINUING effect of inducing a belief in people today....those signs CONTINUE to induce a belief in people today as they did some 2000 years ago when they were actually performed. Since John wrote those signs down, and they CONTINUE to induce a belief in people, then there is no need for those signs to be done again today. Anyone want to believe in signs? Read the ones that John wrote down for you.

 

[posthuman]

These scriptures say that he actually did. He spoke in Greek to the chief captain, and Hebrew to the Jews.
Acts 21:37-40
37 And as Paul was to be led into the castle, he said unto the chief captain, May I speak unto thee ? Who said , Canst thou speak Greek?
38 Art not thou that Egyptian, which before these days madest an uproar , and leddest out into the wilderness four thousand men that were murderers?
39 But Paul said , I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people.
40 And when he had given him licence , Paul stood on the stairs, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, he spake unto them in the Hebrew tongue, saying ,
Acts 22:1-2
1 Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you.
2 (And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith ,)

not that i doubt Paul actually spoke in tongues by the gift of the Spirit, but i believe He spoke Greek and Hebrew (and possibly Latin too) by virtue of his education
we don't have anything like a 'complete' record of Paul's ministry, and from other epistles (ex - 2 Corinthians 10-11), it's clear that he wasn't given to boasting about what the spirit did through him. i think that explains why we don't have verses like "and Paul by the spirit preached to them in Gaelic"

 

[peacefulbeliever]

These scriptures say that he actually did. He spoke in Greek to the chief captain, and Hebrew to the Jews.
Acts 21:37-40
37 And as Paul was to be led into the castle, he said unto the chief captain, May I speak unto thee ? Who said , Canst thou speak Greek?
38 Art not thou that Egyptian, which before these days madest an uproar , and leddest out into the wilderness four thousand men that were murderers?
39 But Paul said , I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people.
40 And when he had given him licence , Paul stood on the stairs, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, he spake unto them in the Hebrew tongue, saying ,
Acts 22:1-2
1 Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you.
2 (And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith ,)

Paul knew and spoke Greek - wasn't he sent unto the Gentiles? and as for Hebrew. . . . Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;


- tongues in Corinthians is given by the Spirit and is a manifestation of the holy Spirit - it is a language that the person speaking doesn't know nor understand . . . .

 

[SeaBass]

- tongues in Corinthians is given by the Spirit and is a manifestation of the holy Spirit - it is a language that the person speaking doesn't know nor understand . . . .

How could they speak a language they do not know or understand?

They were speaking known earthly languages they previously had not understood. It would be like an apostle who spoke Galilean instantaneously, miraculously understood and could speak Crete, a language he previously did not understand but now does miraculously.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Tongues is a language that somebody can understand. No more, no less. It is also sign for the unbelievers and NOT the believers. Paul knew both Greek and Hebrew and even more.

It is written: for he that speaketh in an tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God; for no man understandeth; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

1 Corinthians 14:22-25
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe , but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe .
23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad ?
24 But if all prophesy , and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

In context - If the whole church - ALL speak with tongues - will they not say you are mad . . .YES because there is no interpretation so it is in error when this is practiced - when we ALL come together, everyone has a psalm, has a doctrine, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation . . . . Then Paul gives the correction . . . [I am a believer and have experienced services such as described above and have thought they were mad!!!!!!!]

If a person needs a sign to confirm that they are baptized with the Spirit, what does that say? We are to love the Lord our God with our mind as well as our heart and soul.

Prophesying is for the believer, and tongues are for the unbelieving.

He that speaketh in an tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. I would that ye all spake in tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. . . .

 

[ji]

Speaking in tongues is a gift of the Holy Spirit but not necessarily a requirement for salvation it is to edify you personally and the body of Christ,it is not mandatory. As believers let us focus reaching the lost and pursue purity in our daily lives.

you're wrong...
Speaking in tongues is the visual sign for the Anointing of Holy Spirit. Its not pentecostal(like some have already mentioned in above comments ignorantly)...there is nothing called pentecostal,Holy Scripture doesn't say about any such 'pentecostal people'.
some are set on a mission to be dumb on purpose,don't try to become one..

The pentecostal revolution began some 100 years back,before that alsoSaints of God(in Christ) Lived based on Holy Scripture.They have spoken in unknown tongues and many such were tortured to death for heresy and witch craft throughout centuries since Christianity began.

Holy Bible only talks about Christians,and Speaking in different different tongues is a Gift...not speaking in tongues...
you have got it all wrong.

 

[just-me]

Paul knew and spoke Greek - wasn't he sent unto the Gentiles? and as for Hebrew. . . . Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;


- tongues in Corinthians is given by the Spirit and is a manifestation of the holy Spirit - it is a language that the person speaking doesn't know nor understand . . . .

Paul instruct the Corinthians about how to properly use this gift. There is no record of him ever needing tongues to show manifestation of the indwelling Spirit. I think there was many other things that proved that. Paul knew that tongues were a gift to edify, and he taught the proper use thereof. Corinth was a seaport with many different dialects coming and going, consolidated in one place. It was a very good area to spead the gospel of Christ Jesus.

1-Corinthians 14:15-21
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest ? 17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified .
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children , but in understanding be men.
21 In the law it is written , With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

Isaiah 28:11-12
11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. 12 To whom he said , This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest ; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear .

 

[peacefulbeliever]

How could they speak a language they do not know or understand?

They were speaking known earthly languages they previously had not understood. It would be like an apostle who spoke Galilean instantaneously, miraculously understood and could speak Crete, a language he previously did not understand but now does miraculously.

Hi SeaBass - I believe speaking in tongues is speaking words given by the Spirit -

yes - Acts was a miraculous occurence wherein the language was understood by all present.

Scripture says - For he that speaketh in an tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Is it possible that someone in the church would be able to understand what is spoken just as in Acts? I believe so - There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification. Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh a barbarian unto me. . . Wherefore let him that speaketh in an tongue pray that he may interpret.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Paul instruct the Corinthians about how to properly use this gift. There is no record of him ever needing tongues to show manifestation of the indwelling Spirit. I think there was many other things that proved that. Paul knew that tongues were a gift to edify, and he taught the proper use thereof. Corinth was a seaport with many different dialects coming and going, consolidated in one place. It was a very good area to spead the gospel of Christ Jesus.
1-Corinthians 14:15-21
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest ? 17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified .
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children , but in understanding be men.
21 In the law it is written , With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

Isaiah 28:11-12
11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. 12 To whom he said , This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest ; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear .

My response was to what you said earlier concerning Paul speaking in the "Hebrew tongue" which you have highlighted - as if that were the same as the manifestation of speaking in tongues: IT'S NOT!!!!

These scriptures say that he actually did. He spoke in Greek to the chief captain, and Hebrew to the Jews.
Acts 21:37-40
37 And as Paul was to be led into the castle, he said unto the chief captain, May I speak unto thee ? Who said , Canst thou speak Greek?
38 Art not thou that Egyptian, which before these days madest an uproar , and leddest out into the wilderness four thousand men that were murderers?
39 But Paul said , I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people.
40 And when he had given him licence , Paul stood on the stairs, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, he spake unto them in the Hebrew tongue, saying ,
Acts 22:1-2
1 Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you.
2 (And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith ,)Paul knew and spoke Greek - wasn't he sent unto the Gentiles? and as for Hebrew. . . . Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

- tongues in Corinthians is given by the Spirit and is a manifestation of the holy Spirit - it is a language that the person speaking doesn't know nor understand . . . .

I don't know why you responded as you did - I know Paul spoke in tongues but you are trying to correlate that to the verses in Acts . . . NOT THE SAME THING

 

[jb]

No one today can speak in tongues as the apostles did in Acts 2.

LOL! (twice)... says YOU fellow, NOT the Scriptures!

Baptism with the Holy Spirit was a prophecy of Joel that the Lord fulfilled making that baptism obsolete some 2000 years ago.

Once again YOUR ignorance on the gifts of the Spirit has the better of YOU!

Do YOURSELF a favour fellow and cure your ignorance on the gifts of the Spirit, I've even linked to 2 excellent studies on them in my last post!