SALVATION ONLY POSSIBLE WITHOUT WORKS!

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eternally-gratefull said:
what does that have to do with anything.

Is someone who trusts God going to live in chaos?

it is those who do not trust God that have chaos. because they are still trusting in themselves. and can't see that they are just going in circles. and not getting anywhere.
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Exactly tell me is there a change of heart required ? i believe there is so does Jesus or He woud have never said how He said it to the obedient there is no losing of salvation now to say we are perfect no we are not but there is effort required a desire in us expected with one goal to please Him only .
 
Apostol2013 said:
Exactly tell me is there a change of heart required ?
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to say it is required is to make it a prerequisite, or a payment, thus again, it is not a gift, it was earned.

i believe there is so does Jesus or He woud have never said how He said it to the obedient there is no losing of salvation now to say we are perfect no we are not but there is effort required a desire in us expected with one goal to please Him only .
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The problem is we can not change our heart. Only God can. So even then, it is not our work but Gods.

which brings us back to the question, Will God fail?
 
eternally-gratefull said:
it is still yours. The giver does not take it back, if he did, it was never a gift in the first place.
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This is pointless but God has expectationd shall we continue to fornicate or even murder etc , this is the examples given but i am at work be back later good conversation though
 
Apostol2013 said:
This is pointless but God has expectationd shall we continue to fornicate or even murder etc , this is the examples given but i am at work be back later good conversation though
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can you stop this on your own. or can only God stop you?

your making God tell us we must earn his gift. Which means he is a liar. it was never a gift to begin with.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
to say it is required is to make it a prerequisite, or a payment, thus again, it is not a gift, it was earned.



The problem is we can not change our heart. Only God can. So even then, it is not our work but Gods.

which brings us back to the question, Will God fail?
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It is man that fails God but you cannot comform scriptures to your convenience the order must be upheld that there be some kind of hope left for future generations , i will be a faithfull stwewart of God's house a son and my brothers keeper i love you peace of christ be with you
 
Apostol2013 said:
It is man that fails God but you cannot comform scriptures to your convenience the order must be upheld that there be some kind of hope left for future generations , i will be a faithfull stwewart of God's house a son and my brothers keeper i love you peace of christ be with you
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God said he WILL CONTINUE IT (the good work) until the day of CHrist.

Man can not undo what God did. or is doing.
 
Apostol2013 said:
Thre is a difference between earning and caring for it
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Yes,

but if it can be lost. then it must be earned. there is no getting away from that.

Caring for it has nothing to do with keeping it or having it taken back It has to do with what benefits you get out of it.
 
Apostol2013 said:
you fail to see the theology of the apostles but holiuness is part of the faith through the redemptive spirit of God the works are of God through faith in the Lord throught the edification of the spirit and correction of th holy scriptures all of Gods word but look at this verse , i pray that God gives you the ability to discern and maybe your eyes be open
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I disagree with your assessment as I am missing nothing....Salvation is based entirely on faith into the completed work of Jesus...it is based upon (UNMERITED FAVOR)-->GRACE and is given as a FREE GIFT void of any human effort and or works and comes to humanity based upon the daily renewed MERCY of God....

Maybe you should study the verb tenses and what the word mean to a first century disciple of Jesus as opposed to a twisted doctrine of works for or to keep salvation which is heresy according to the APOSTLES....
 
eternally-gratefull said:
Yes,

but if it can be lost. then it must be earned. there is no getting away from that.

Caring for it has nothing to do with keeping it or having it taken back It has to do with what benefits you get out of it.
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The problem is that they fail to see that biblical salvation stands apart from any human effort to gain and or keep it...it is a once for all act period....

I agree that if you can lose it then it is obvious that gaining it back is based upon human merit and this is simply false and contrary to the truth as there is NOT A JUST MAN UPON THE EARTH THAT DOES GOOD AND SINS NOT.....

Salvation is beyond the ability of humans to gain or keep based upon what we do period!
 
Jabberjaw said:
Your map is upside down, gater has it right.
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Whatever dude.... my map is orientated to true North and my compass heading is true.....NO WORKS that man can do will ever earn him the right to enter heaven and on top of that...no works that man can do will ever (supplement) salvation as it is a once for all act that is based entirely on faith, grace, mercy and the FAITH OF JESUS which is complete and perfect and fully accepted by God the Father!
 
Apostol2013 said:
Thre is a difference between earning and caring for it
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Can you loose your salvation? If yes then you have to work to keep it...false
Can you do works to earn salvation NO
Can you do works to keep salvation NO
Can you trust into the faith of Jesus for COMPLETE ETERNAL SALVATION YES
Does that which is born of God SIN NO
The Spirit that is born of God CANNOT SIN<----SO HOW CAN IT LOOSE IT"S SALVATION?

IT CANNOT BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN BORN OF GOD!
 
eternally-gratefull said:

can you stop this on your own. or can only God stop you?

your making God tell us we must earn his gift. Which means he is a liar. it was never a gift to begin with.
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No doubt as they twist the truth and add STIPULATIONS to a GIFT THAT IS GIVEN BY GOD...

The very ability to believe is a GIFT FROM GOD and there is not one thing that a man can do to gain the SPIRITUAL GIFT OF FAITH WHICH SAVES ALL who will SIMPLY BELIEVE!
 
dcontroversal said:
Whatever dude.... my map is orientated to true North and my compass heading is true.....NO WORKS that man can do will ever earn him the right to enter heaven and on top of that...no works that man can do will ever (supplement) salvation as it is a once for all act that is based entirely on faith, grace, mercy and the FAITH OF JESUS which is complete and perfect and fully accepted by God the Father!
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Actually there is only one true north and that is Liverpool north west :) just joking God is not territorial he is everywhere
 
eternally-gratefull said:

not to be mean or argumentative.

But you seem to be contradicting yourself.

on the one hand you say salvation can be lost. based on what we do (or do not do) then you say it is the HS who purifies and renovates us.

Are you saying God can fail? Is it of God, or is it of us?
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No doubt....which is it.....again hey fail to see that it is the perfect, all powerful God of heaven that saves us, seals us, justifies us and everything he does is eternal....even bringing lost man into existence is eternal as he must put lost man into an eternal lake of fire as they are also eternally dead because they trusted into themselves instead of God!
 
Cassian said:
When the originator of the OP cannot even summarize the oppositions view point and creates a strawman how can they even begin to refute what the opposition is even saying. I think they believe in their own mischaracterizations so they can argue for their position without opposition except the strawman.
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One thing I have noticed about you Cassian is your ability to let your lips flap a lot without any real substance and or scriptural proof of your heretical stand...Your problem is you think too much instead of letting the spirit of God guide you and that is exactly why you will die in your sins according to the bible as all who trust in themselves and their own works will be denied the right to enter the Kingdom of God.

Good luck with your gospel of a different kind which has no power to save and is double cursed by Paul, Jesus, John and numerous other men who had insight and inspiration of God!

Salvation is by faith through grace and according to the mercy of God..it is a free gift and cannot be earned and or kept by your own works....

So do you wear coke bottle glasses? It seems that you can't or don't read too well or maybe just deny the obvious truth of the bible....let me guess...your false religion was good enough for ???? so it must be good enough for you!
 
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