SALVATION ONLY POSSIBLE WITHOUT WORKS!

[Shyness]

Philippians 2:12-13

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

John 14:21

Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them."

John 14:23

Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

John 14:15-16

If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever.

Matthew 7:21-23

Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'… Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

James 2:14-26

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? [SUP]15 [/SUP]If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good[SUP][a][/SUP] is that? [SUP]17 [/SUP]So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. [SUP]18 [/SUP]But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. [SUP]19 [/SUP]You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! [SUP]20 [/SUP]Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? [SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? [SUP]22 [/SUP]You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; [SUP]23 [/SUP]and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. [SUP]24 [/SUP]You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. [SUP]25 [/SUP]And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? [SUP]26 [/SUP]For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

 

[dcontroversal]

because without the works you have no faith. They cannot be separated. You cannot speak of faith alone, and then add works as if some adjunct to it. In scripture every timie faith is used, it is implying a living faith which is an active faith, doing the works of righteousness. This is why the correct phrasology of scripture is that one is justified BY faith, but is being saved THROUGH faith. Eph 2:8 uses the word Through. It cannot ever be faith alone. It is dead and non-existent.

Nor can it be stated that faith alone saved you. Then as Calvinists, because of another erroneous doctrine of predestination will claim that God cannot lose what He has decreed, which would be correct Calvinistic theology, but not scriptural. One is not saved, in the past tense finitely, in this life. The inheritance, the actual eternal life is not awarded until the end, it is awaiting for us, IF we remain faithful.

The bolded is hilarious as this is exactly what you do.....you ADD works to faith...
Faith to Faith as it is written<------NO works listed here

Is it your faith that saves you or the perfect, eternal faith OF JESUS CHRIST that saves you?

Can you loose your salvation? If so how can you loose it? When you sin?

The spirit that is born of God does not sin....SO HOW CAN YOUR SAVED, NEVER SINNING SPIRIT LOOSE IT'S SALVATION?

The BODY OF SIN IS NOT SUBJECT UNTO WORD of GOD and IS DEAD IN SIN AND MUST BE DESTROYED....

JESUS SAID CLEARLY...THE SPIRIT IS WILLING, BUT THE FLESH IS WEAK<---WHY THE LAW AND OR KEEPING THE LAW CANNOT SAVE--ONLY JESUS, who never sinned had the right to (ana-stasis)!

 

[Jabberjaw]

The bolded is hilarious as this is exactly what you do.....you ADD works to faith...
Faith to Faith as it is written<------NO works listed here

Is it your faith that saves you or the perfect, eternal faith OF JESUS CHRIST that saves you?

Can you loose your salvation? If so how can you loose it? When you sin?

The spirit that is born of God does not sin....SO HOW CAN YOUR SAVED, NEVER SINNING SPIRIT LOOSE IT'S SALVATION?

The BODY OF SIN IS NOT SUBJECT UNTO WORD of GOD and IS DEAD IN SIN AND MUST BE DESTROYED....

JESUS SAID CLEARLY...THE SPIRIT IS WILLING, BUT THE FLESH IS WEAK<---WHY THE LAW AND OR KEEPING THE LAW CANNOT SAVE--ONLY JESUS, who never sinned had the right to (ana-stasis)!

then why the warning, bible filler?

1 Timothy 3:6-7 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

 

[dcontroversal]

then why the warning, bible filler?

1 Timothy 3:6-7 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Whatever dude...you can misquote and misapply scripture all day long and it will not change the fact that everyone who trusts into works for or to keep salvation believe a gospel of a different kind which is double cursed to hell....

Keep trusting your works and it will get smoking hot one day for you real soon......by the way do you live in a city that is by a military base?

 

[Jabberjaw]

Whatever dude...you can misquote and misapply scripture all day long and it will not change the fact that everyone who trusts into works for or to keep salvation believe a gospel of a different kind which is double cursed to hell....

Keep trusting your works and it will get smoking hot one day for you real soon......by the way do you live in a city that is by a military base?

Misquote?

1 Timothy 3:6-7 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

It says what it says...

No I don't live close to a military base.

 

[Elin]

then why the warning, bible filler?

1 Timothy 3:6-7 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Warnings are one of the means (second causes) God uses to preserve true believers
(Php 2:13; 1Pe 1:5; Jn 10:28-29).

True believers who need to be warned will respond to God's warning and not apostasize.

Counterfeit believers will ignore God's warnings and end up apostasizing.

So warnings are one of the ways God separates true believers from counterfeit believers.

Another way he separates them is by trials of their faith.
Counerfeit believers fall away (apostsize) during trial of their faith, while true believers persevere.

Only those who persevere will be saved, because only those who persevere are true believers.
Perserverance, like works, doesn't save you, it merely shows that your faith is true.
True faith, as shown by both perserverance and obedience, is the only thing which saves you

 

[Jabberjaw]

Warnings are one of the means (second causes) God uses to preserve true believers
(Php 2:13; 1Pe 1:5; Jn 10:28-29).

True believers who need to be warned will respond to God's warning and not apostasize.

Counterfeit believers will ignore God's warnings and end up apostasizing.

So warnings are one of the ways God separates true believers from counterfeit believers.

Another way he separates them is by trials of their faith.
Counerfeit believers fall away (apostsize) during trial of their faith, while true believers persevere.

Only those who persevere will be saved, because only those who persevere are true believers.
Perserverance, like works, doesn't save you, it merely shows that your faith is true.
True faith, as shown by both perserverance and obedience, is the only thing which saves you

So then one can fall from Grace

 

[Elin]

So then one can fall from Grace

There is no grace where there is no true faith.

True faith falls, but never from grace (permanently).
Grace is always with them.

It is that grace which gives them to respond to God's warnings if they lapse.

 

[Cassian]

The bolded is hilarious as this is exactly what you do.....you ADD works to faith...
Faith to Faith as it is written<------NO works listed here

Is it your faith that saves you or the perfect, eternal faith OF JESUS CHRIST that saves you?

Can you loose your salvation? If so how can you loose it? When you sin?

The spirit that is born of God does not sin....SO HOW CAN YOUR SAVED, NEVER SINNING SPIRIT LOOSE IT'S SALVATION?

The BODY OF SIN IS NOT SUBJECT UNTO WORD of GOD and IS DEAD IN SIN AND MUST BE DESTROYED....

JESUS SAID CLEARLY...THE SPIRIT IS WILLING, BUT THE FLESH IS WEAK<---WHY THE LAW AND OR KEEPING THE LAW CANNOT SAVE--ONLY JESUS, who never sinned had the right to (ana-stasis)!

Wow, more false teachings than just "saved by faith alone". So, you are also a modern psuedo-Gnostic that has created a two part man whereby each part is independent of the other. You should check out what the Gnostics believed regarding matter and the spirit. This is a doctrine that was first instituted by Zwingli when he changed the meaning of the mysteries (sacraments).

Why would every time faith is mentioned that works must be explained. The whole of scripture adaquately explains that, Just as James 2:24 does.

Here are just a couple of dozens in scripture that works are added to believing or faith....
"John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. But whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."
Believes is present tense, active, continuing. Then we have a negative, does not obey, which will negate the believes.


"1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life."
Again the verb, believe, is present tense, active, continuing. Here it states that we MAY know one has eternal life, but it does not say ONE actually has eternal life. We already know that faith/ salvation, has conditions.

"1 John 2:24
Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father."
Another huge condition attached. If what we heard in the beginning abides in us, then one too will abide in the Son. Quite obviously IF one does NOT abide then we also do not abide in Christ.

There are many, many more of these types of texts. NOt a single one says one is finitely saved, past tense, relative to our relationship.

HOw can one lose salvation? By not believing any longer, not abiding any longer. Not obeying any longer. NOt following Him any longer.

Still conflating works of the law with the Law of Christ, of love, of faith, of righteousness. You are going to run out of straw soon, by building so many strawmen.

 

[Cassian]

then why the warning, bible filler?

1 Timothy 3:6-7 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Did you expect an answer? When no answer, just assert some strawman again.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Lets see what page you are on , so what you are saying if i confessed jesus and repented but at a point murdered an individual and continue killing others continually without any form of repentance by showing that i commit murder and have not stopped then would i be saved ? This is a question worth answering no philosophy no human understanding use pure scripture

I would say you fooled yourself into thinking you repented but there was no repentance in you at all..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But to make a statement clear even if we would make a mistake wall we have to do is confess to jesus the faithfull and true and continue in the faith not to intentionally sin but to walk uprightly in God

The example of david. When he was confronted, he admitted his sin. And he suffered dearly for it. But God did not ask for anything in return. Remember, God already called him a man after his own heart. long before he committed this sin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Didn't God's justice require that the debt for our sin be paid in order to forgive/cancel it?

yes, and how was that sin debt paid? And does this forgiveness God gave us because of this sin debt being paid allow us to forgive others, as God forgives us (there sin debt was paid also right?)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Lets take a scriptural example How about if a brother good in the faith one day gets angry and blasphemes that very unforgivable sin then would salvation be secure ?

The fact he already placed his faith in christ shows that he already has not commited that sin, once you recieve the words of the HS concerning the gospel. you can not break it

 

[Cassian]

Warnings are one of the means (second causes) God uses to preserve true believers
(Php 2:13; 1Pe 1:5; Jn 10:28-29).

actually correct, but man can still reject the pleading of the Holy Spirit. However, for some others here it goes against the past tense salvation with cannot be revoked, so warning are quite irrelevant.

True believers who need to be warned will respond to God's warning and not apostasize.

However, we still have many who have apostasized, scripture gives some examples.

Counterfeit believers will ignore God's warnings and end up apostasizing.

If you use the word believer He is saved. Scripture never mentions a counterfeit believer that was not actually a believer.

So warnings are one of the ways God separates true believers from counterfeit believers.

NO, it warns believers not to apostasize, or to reject Christ, leave the fold for what ever reason.

Another way he separates them is by trials of their faith.

Counerfeit believers fall away (apostsize) during trial of their faith, while true believers persevere.

so believers can fall from salvation. Why not just say it. You go around by hundreds of miles but still arrive at the same end, beleivers can fall.

Only those who persevere will be saved, because only those who persevere are true believers.

that is a logical statement and scriptural, but many do not persevere and are not saved, thus they are assigned with unbelievers.

Perserverance, like works, doesn't save you, it merely shows that your faith is true.

Which means it saves you.

True faith,

as shown by both perserverance and obedience, is the only thing which saves you

yes. All those sheanigans and you are right back to what scripture states, Faith without works is dead, cannot save youi.

 

[Shyness]

Philippians 2:12-13

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

John 14:21

Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them."

John 14:23

Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

John 14:15-16

If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever.

Matthew 7:21-23

Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'… Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

James 2:14-26

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? [SUP]15 [/SUP]If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good[SUP][a][/SUP] is that? [SUP]17 [/SUP]So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. [SUP]18 [/SUP]But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. [SUP]19 [/SUP]You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! [SUP]20 [/SUP]Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? [SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? [SUP]22 [/SUP]You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; [SUP]23 [/SUP]and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. [SUP]24 [/SUP]You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. [SUP]25 [/SUP]And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? [SUP]26 [/SUP]For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

This is a way to say that faith without works is like a car without a motor. Its dead and gets nowhere.

 

[Cassian]

I would say you fooled yourself into thinking you repented but there was no repentance in you at all..

another non-answer.

 

[Apostol2013]

I was a simple sinner but i am studying further and relating my experience and salvation can be lost if one falls away but we never know the outcome who knows if that backslider will be saved but i know he can be , but i teach the citizenship to the coming kingdom about falling from grace that means salvation i considered shat i was told from both of you and see its very possible because jesus said so so did paul so let us endure steadfast in the truthtruth

 

[notuptome]

Wow, more false teachings than just "saved by faith alone". So, you are also a modern psuedo-Gnostic that has created a two part man whereby each part is independent of the other. You should check out what the Gnostics believed regarding matter and the spirit. This is a doctrine that was first instituted by Zwingli when he changed the meaning of the mysteries (sacraments).

Why would every time faith is mentioned that works must be explained. The whole of scripture adaquately explains that, Just as James 2:24 does.

Here are just a couple of dozens in scripture that works are added to believing or faith....
"John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. But whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."
Believes is present tense, active, continuing. Then we have a negative, does not obey, which will negate the believes.


"1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life."
Again the verb, believe, is present tense, active, continuing. Here it states that we MAY know one has eternal life, but it does not say ONE actually has eternal life. We already know that faith/ salvation, has conditions.

"1 John 2:24
Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father."
Another huge condition attached. If what we heard in the beginning abides in us, then one too will abide in the Son. Quite obviously IF one does NOT abide then we also do not abide in Christ.

There are many, many more of these types of texts. NOt a single one says one is finitely saved, past tense, relative to our relationship.

HOw can one lose salvation? By not believing any longer, not abiding any longer. Not obeying any longer. NOt following Him any longer.

Still conflating works of the law with the Law of Christ, of love, of faith, of righteousness. You are going to run out of straw soon, by building so many strawmen.

With your teaching you negate the grace of God. You rob God of the glory that is His alone.

Not only does man not deserve grace but man cannot merit grace.

Be not deceived God is not mocked whatsoever a man soweth of that shall he reap.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

another non-answer.

dude go away.

How is saying he never truly repented a non answer.