Is the Hebrew Roots Movement a cult?

[JGIG]

How can you say that God wants us to not know how he created His world to run? In the Torah God explains creation and how our world runs, and you are telling us to ignore that!! It would be impossible to put on Christ when you disavow all of His Father.

I didn't say that.

That's you, as you so often do, lying about what I've said to discredit me (and other posters to whom you do the same thing). It really is very deceitful. You, know, lying, which is breaking one of the Ten Commandments you claim to revere.

All Scripture is useful for instruction in righteousness (2 Tim. 3:16).

That does not mean that those in Christ are bound to the Law.

The Scriptures are clear: Those in Christ are no longer under the Law, we are severed, dead to, released from the Law.

Released/Delivered From the Law and Christ is the End of the Law – Getting Greeky About Romans 7, 10, and Ephesians 2

-JGIG

I am one of the "liars" according to JGIG who is accused of twisting words. I am a simple person looking for God's truth and would never do anything to harm anyone. If I am twisting words, it is misunderstanding of something said about scripture.

That's either true and if that's the case, then you shouldn't be participating on a forum where you can't keep up, or it's not true, and you're the one throwing out false accusations and when called on it, you play the victim card.

Based on past experiences with you on this forum tells me that it is the latter (http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/88768-new-look-galatians-2.html#post1476364). That particular thread is rife with you taking what people say and regurgitating it beyond all recognition. Really bad form for forum participation.

Scripture is important, I'm not. If something is twisted it needs to be straightened out for scriptures sake. It is necessary to do it, and it can't be done when it isn't about scripture any more but about what a terrible person I am.

Time after time I post Scripture after Scripture and ask you direct questions.

You do not respond to either, but make false accusations about what I believe.

And then you play the victim card as if everyone is being mean to poor you.

That's just a bunch of hooey.

And you don't like being called on it.

-JGIG

 

[RedTent]

I read all of the bible, not just the first five books.

Good for you! I had the impression you limited your study, I am glad to hear I was wrong. I didn't do as well as you say you are doing for years and years, as I limited my study to the NT. About memorized it, in fact. I read the OT, but it didn't give me an understanding of God. Once I could understand it better, I understood the NT better.

So with the understanding you say you have of all scripture, you are years ahead of where I was.

I didn't see this understanding of OT in your posts, I am glad you set me straight.

 

[iamsoandso]

Good for you! I had the impression you limited your study, I am glad to hear I was wrong. I didn't do as well as you say you are doing for years and years, as I limited my study to the NT. About memorized it, in fact. I read the OT, but it didn't give me an understanding of God. Once I could understand it better, I understood the NT better.

So with the understanding you say you have of all scripture, you are years ahead of where I was.

me also,,i have to admit tho the first time i read the bible(i began at gen,1;1,and read thru to rev. 22;21 without skipping around),,,i was 18,boastful(i really just wanted to be able to say i had done it to people),,,but at the end i ended up with the shock of a lifetime. I thought just like magic i would become some "super intelligent being",but to mine own shock i couldn't understand much of it any better than when i began,,,,

at the time i finished i had already begun fathering children(i have 5 boys),,but you can imagine the fear that struck me,that is how can a father,husband a friend to friends sit at peace in his mind as if he was the provider(a guide),to the hereafter, stand beside the almighty god and provide it to the ones he love's,,,"if he could not understand it"????,,,,,

It was a great horror to be so humbled,as to walk into the Gospel of god filled with boasting and become a house with no roof to my loved ones. a daddy with no food,nor water a husband with a ring of string,,,,i didn't like this emotion i had to face,so i read the bible again,and again,the second time i read it i was in tears,the third i read it from the bottom of my heart with love as if it was the most important part of a mans life to know it and to be able to provide it's truth,,,,

here is a commandment most often forgotten,,,,,"honer thy mother and thy father",,,what do you think it means????,,,,i think i can tell you,it means the man down the road,and the woman who are not your father and mother might tell you if you are of a mind to rob a bank,"yes!,and give you place to hide",,but your father and mother will not agree and they will say "no,god will judge you in it,because they love you",,,,

Now why i ask,what is the difference?, that is one set of these is concerned about today and this world and the other the judgement of god of right and wrong in the afterlife,it is love from hatred,left from right. Here is where i took my stance on the matter,i the second time read the bible not for me to be looked upon,the second time i looked upon mine own sons and my wife and you whom i consider mine own friends.,,,,

let us gleam every word of it and consider it as if we are saying it to the ones we love,,"this is why i think this,this is why i think that",,if we are sore concerned to always love one another,we will not stumble in our opinions of scripture,we will at times even say "i don't know" and further research the matter before we give life altering dogma to the "ones we love",,,,,,,"i am in the midst of loving you",,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Hoffco]

Good for you! I had the impression you limited your study, I am glad to hear I was wrong. I didn't do as well as you say you are doing for years and years, as I limited my study to the NT. About memorized it, in fact. I read the OT, but it didn't give me an understanding of God. Once I could understand it better, I understood the NT better.

So with the understanding you say you have of all scripture, you are years ahead of where I was.

I didn't see this understanding of OT in your posts, I am glad you set me straight.

Sorry, Redtent, you are actually twisting and neglecting the N.T. by your misunderstanding of the O.T.. Love doug Hofffco

 

[iamsoandso]

i deleated one of your lines redtent by mistake,,,,,"i didnt see this understanding of OT in your post,i'm glad you set me straight",,forgive me,,,,

 

[RedTent]

Sorry, Redtent, you are actually twisting and neglecting the N.T. by your misunderstanding of the O.T.. Love doug Hofffco

I understood that you could understand the way our Lord created our world, and that we agreed, here you are saying that you don't agree at all!! I have spent hours and hours being sure that I saw scripture as a whole, and you tell me I don't. Evidently you have too many ways you see God's plan differently to put it all in here, and you seem to be a man who can think and reason rather than accuse. Could you PM me, or see if we could work this out?

I see the entire plan as quite simple, one in place from the first. God created a wonderful world for us and if we were perfect and operated perfectly we would have only love and beauty. Sin interferes with that, and from almost the first sin was something we must live with, so from the first God arranged to help us with that through Christ and the saving grace Christ offers. The more we understand and fit our lives into the plan of operation God has the better we have it. But we must accept Christ in our life. Every detail that we are given about the fine points of how God operates must fit into the master plan and does.

Do you see something wrong with this? Perhaps you object to my seeing even what is "obsolete" in the OT as having a relationship to what was in the old? Replaced, not used any more, but worth understanding?

 

[KohenMatt]

I've said it before, but we can't call the HRM as a whole a "cult" just because there are some who call themselves by it who have faulty doctrine. The HRM is not an organized denomination with a doctrinal statement and uniform principles by which we can label the whole as heresy or cult-ish.

Just as I cannot call the entire Pentecostal denomination a "cult" just because there are some in it who preach prosperity as a sign of true salvation, I can't call everyone who calls themselves part of the HRM "cult-ish" just by their association to those with faulty doctrine.

I consider myself a Hebrew Roots Christian, but I believe very little of the "cultish" things that are blanketly said about them.

People who throw around the label of "cult" loosely are usually just as much in error as the "cults" they think they're identifying.

 

[ob77]

Recently my wife was accused of belonging to a cult called the Hebrew Roots Movement. I didn't know what it was, so I went to this url: What is the Hebrew Roots movement?
I am wanting input, for both my wife and I believe that the Mosaic Law was given to us as a tool by God himself and is still relevant today. This causes great division, but just because we believe in the Bible as a whole, has the falling away gotten to the point where we are rejecting in bitterness parts of the Word of God that we don't like or what?

I have not heard of such a movement. I do not know what they teach or how they teach it. I would like to evaluate it, if I knew more about it.

 

[Kerry]

I think that people who are in the HBR truly love God and want to be closer to Him. But, i cannot agree with it, all that was settled at the cross. I meant wearing a prayer shawl does nothing nor a beanie nor eating this or that and so on and so forth. The only thing that God will accept is faith in the work of the cross and that is it. Nothing else, you can climb a mountain or stand naked in the desert or abstain from pork or lay in bed all day Sunday or Saturday or give your money to the poor. with out faith in the cross it just some thing you that makes you feel good, I meant pot can that or pint till the next day. If you are in bondage and you the HBR stuff guess what your still in bondage. The only thing that sets us free is the cross and nothing else. I wouldn't waste my time nor effort on it. Faith in the cross works every time if we hold fast.

 

[ob77]

Getting into the Hebrew understanding of the Bible is wonderful. I guess you could do it with some groups that are cults. Why not attend a Messianic Jewish assembly for a few weeks (many are online) and see what you think?

A Hebrew understanding of the bible IS wonderful, but you will not get it by hanging around a bunch of Kenites.

 

[ob77]

Saturate youself in the Book of Hebrews especially the section dealing with the change of priesthood and Levitical Law. Most Messianics just don't get it. Enjoy your visit but personally I wouldn't drop anchor there.

It is interesting that the very people who claim to be Hebrew, do not have the book of Hebrews. It is not in the Talmud, nor the Torah.

 

[KohenMatt]

I think that people who are in the HBR truly love God and want to be closer to Him. But, i cannot agree with it, all that was settled at the cross. I meant wearing a prayer shawl does nothing nor a beanie nor eating this or that and so on and so forth. The only thing that God will accept is faith in the work of the cross and that is it. Nothing else, you can climb a mountain or stand naked in the desert or abstain from pork or lay in bed all day Sunday or Saturday or give your money to the poor. with out faith in the cross it just some thing you that makes you feel good, I meant pot can that or pint till the next day. If you are in bondage and you the HBR stuff guess what your still in bondage. The only thing that sets us free is the cross and nothing else. I wouldn't waste my time nor effort on it. Faith in the cross works every time if we hold fast.

And for the most part, I agree with you Kerry. But the distinction needs to be made (and sadly isn't made enough) as to why people are wearing shawls, eating kosher, or going to church on the Sabbath, etc. If people are doing them to improve their salvation they're wrong. But there is nothing wrong with doing any of those things in the Torah in response to gracious salvation.

 

[iamsoandso]

A Hebrew understanding of the bible IS wonderful, but you will not get it by hanging around a bunch of Kenites.

wow thats sharp kens account was suspended months ago,,,"i guess youll come out on top of the debate",,,,,,,

 

[Kerry]

as a matter of fact my grandmother lived to be 97 years old and just about everything she cooked had pig fat in it (lard) and them was some good biscuits. I meant she ate ribs pork chops, bacon, sausage you name it, catfish, brains and eggs, fried eggs in lard. But, if the church door was open she was there and her faith was in Christ. So all that rig a mo ro is hogwash. and while she was cooking she start singing them old hymns and we knew, when she threw that head back and tongues started flowing, as kids we run hide and say she talking to Jesus.

When she left, she went peacefully with a smile on her face.

 

[ob77]

I have dug into this long and hard, because someone told me that by not understanding the OT, I was not knowing what God was about, for all those centuries up to Christ was building for Christ. When I looked into this it sent me to the Hebrew Roots movement, for this is what started the movement.

First, I studied OT with a commentary in hand that said here is how it was told in those days, and then sent me to the NT and said here is how Christ fulfilled it. For instance, as I studied the sacrificial system.

Next I was sent to Hebrews, to read it as the Jew it was written to who considered going back to life without Christ, not as a 2013 who was born again. It told me how Christ changed the world.

My conclusion is that this rather new movement is from God. For about 2,000 years, God has led us to Him, as gentiles, although God wants us all to be one together not Jew and Gentile. Now, there has been changes in our world. The holocaust, the Jews returning to their land, the finding of the dead sea scrolls to open up understanding of ancient Hebrews, all of it is a sign of the change. To back this idea up I dug deep into history, especially the first 500 years of our gentile church to find the steps of how we got where we are in understanding. I read 1,000 years of reports on the councils of our church. It backs up how it seems to me.

What I don't understand is the falling away from God so many of the Jews have done in these last years. History study has shown me that even those who reject Christ has led through their devotion to God. Most Jews who are returning to their land hasn't any understanding that God is sending them there, only the Christians know. I can understand, through the study of Romans, their being blinded to the messiah, but I don't see how this not including even God the Father in their life fits, but God sees.

The world that God tells us about is solidly against this movement, saying these people don't believe in God but in works and lots of other things. I haven't found the list of their "sins" true of them when I look at them closely. The world stands solidly against anything of God. If it is God warning us about them, we should listen. If it is Satan, we shouldn't listen. But I think we should look for truth prayerfully. I have found truth in the movement and I have checked all the world says against them.

Have you been living in a cave somewhere? Jews have rejected Christ since day one. They are not the children of Abraham, they never were. They are not the sheep, they are the goats, they are not the wheat, they are the tares. They do not fulfill any of the prophecies with the people Israel. They returned to the land where God said He would make desolate and full of abominations. He was to give Israel A NEW JERUSALEM with a great sea on the west and a great sea on the east. There were 13 tribes of Israel and there were 13 colonies and later 13 states. Coincidence, or new Jerusalem?

 

[Kerry]

And for the most part, I agree with you Kerry. But the distinction needs to be made (and sadly isn't made enough) as to why people are wearing shawls, eating kosher, or going to church on the Sabbath, etc. If people are doing them to improve their salvation they're wrong. But there is nothing wrong with doing any of those things in the Torah in response to gracious salvation.

I have to differ with you there, you may not, but the people around you may be placing their faith in what they are doing. The fact is that by keeping this Hebrew feast and traditions and so. whether you realize it or not is ineffect saying the cross is not enough, I have to do this or that. Yes we try and pray but it is the Holy Spirit that operates in us through the means of the cross and not what we do. If you want to be closer to God than you are now ask Him for the baptism of the Holy Spirit and keep asking. Jesus said that if we being evil if our kid ask for a fish will you give him a stone? How much more will the Father give the Holy Spirit to those that ask.

 

[Karraster]

Have you been living in a cave somewhere? Jews have rejected Christ since day one. They are not the children of Abraham, they never were. They are not the sheep, they are the goats, they are not the wheat, they are the tares. They do not fulfill any of the prophecies with the people Israel. They returned to the land where God said He would make desolate and full of abominations. He was to give Israel A NEW JERUSALEM with a great sea on the west and a great sea on the east. There were 13 tribes of Israel and there were 13 colonies and later 13 states. Coincidence, or new Jerusalem?

...so ..when Messiah returns He will put His feet on Mt Rushmore?

 

[iamsoandso]

...so ..when Messiah returns He will put His feet on Mt Rushmore?

well,i guess kenisyes out debated him and he left before speaking to us,,,,,"Ken means yes in hebrew,,,lo,is no,,,lol",,,,,,,,,,,

 

[VCO]

I've said it before, but we can't call the HRM as a whole a "cult" just because there are some who call themselves by it who have faulty doctrine. The HRM is not an organized denomination with a doctrinal statement and uniform principles by which we can label the whole as heresy or cult-ish.

Just as I cannot call the entire Pentecostal denomination a "cult" just because there are some in it who preach prosperity as a sign of true salvation, I can't call everyone who calls themselves part of the HRM "cult-ish" just by their association to those with faulty doctrine.

I consider myself a Hebrew Roots Christian, but I believe very little of the "cultish" things that are blanketly said about them.

People who throw around the label of "cult" loosely are usually just as much in error as the "cults" they think they're identifying.

Do you ever feel like we are talking to a brick wall? The ones that really get to me, are the ones that think they are spiritual Israelites and as such, part of the 144.000.

 

[Kerry]

Do you ever feel like we are talking to a brick wall? The ones that really get to me, are the ones that think they are spiritual Israelites and as such, part of the 144.000.

I 'm not sure what you are promoting, but the brick wall is the blood line. Have ever heard the old hymn "can't cross the blood line"