...but if one indicates that the water of baptism is the lynch-pin of salvation, then it's making it to be something the Bible does not teach.
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...but if one indicates that the water of baptism is the lynch-pin of salvation, then it's making it to be something the Bible does not teach.
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Okay. I'll take your word for it. I've been baptized by water and the Holy Spirit and Jesus is my lord so in that I am confident.
God didn't chose water baptism to get saved, He chose the rebirth made possible by the blood of Jesus.
The ay into Christ's death, Is through dying to self at the rebirth.
One has to be saved before they can be baptised in water.
As for Rom 6: 3--5. One has to be saved before they can be baptised into Jesus death.
As for Mk 16: 16, And Acts 2: 38, One has to believe and get born again before they can be baptised.
Water baptism is identifying who you are baptised into, But you have to be in Christ before you can be baptised as you witness as to belonging to Him.
Baptism in Acts 2:38 and Acts 10:47,48 are both in the name of the Lord, the same baptism which remits sins/saves.
In Acts 10, Peter was to tell Cornelius what he ought to do, verse 6. In Peter's sermon, Peter told Cornelius "But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him" verse 35. Peter command Cornelius to be water baptized, verse 48.
--So there was something Corneous ought to do > commanded to be water baptized.
--Cornelius was to "work righteousnes" > which means obey God's will in being water baptized.
--Cornelius was commanded to be water baptized > The command itself made water baptism essential if for no other reason. But being water baptized was how he would work righeousness and be accepted with God.
A 'type' does not mean 'the same' or 'identical'.
OT type: sins "covered" by water once a year which brought their sins to their conscience [remembrance] each year [Hebrews 10:3]
NT antitype: saved by 'living water' ONCE AND FOR ALL [Hebrews 7:27] John 4:10,11 - Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?
John 7:37-39 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive:; for the holy Spirit was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Well, how were those 8 souls - 8 people saved? They were saved from the flood because they believed God and got on the ark. The Israelites believed God and walked through the 'walls' of the Red Sea. These both are symbolic of baptism - not as a ritual cleansing from sin but being saved as in passing from the old to the new.
Yep water is used as the OT type - a type of what was to come - they were saved from destruction by water - we are saved by "living water" which represents the holy Spirit. Water does not 'create' that new creation' within a person - it is 'born' by the Spirit.
It is impossible to please God in the flesh - so the washing of the filth of the flesh does no one any good. We must be cleansed from the inside out - the new birth; that new creation within the born again believer ONLY is what makes us children of God. It is that spirit within us that 'makes us perfect in every good work to do his will, working in us that which is wellpleasing in his sight through Jesus Christ' - all this can ONLY be done via the holy Spirit; the washing of water cannot do this.
Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ - water or Spirit? What baptism does Jesus Christ baptize with/in? The only way to have a good conscience toward God is to know who we are IN Christ Jesus. To know that he dwells within us via the holy Spirit, via the new birth. It is making Jesus our Lord, being baptized in the Spirit that makes us Christians - not any church we attend, being baptized in water, or doing good works that make us a Christian - unbelievers can do all these things. What makes us a Christian is being born again of the Spirit - and to be born again of the Spirit is to be cleansed with 'living water' given by Jesus Christ. How can dunking in water create that new creation in Christ within you? All it can do is symbolize something - it was and is a 'type' of the true baptism with and in 'living water' which is the holy Spirit.
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THe problem with your exegesis is that you are going to a remote context where water is being used figuratively then try to apply that remote context to the immediate one in Jn 3:5.
Does the remote context of Jn 4:10 make water figurative in Jn 3:23 also?
Water baptism is the point where God saves but water baptism without first having belief, repentance, confession is nothing.
There is just "one baptism" in effect today, Eph 4:5, that one baptism being the human adminstered water baptism of Christ's great comission (Mat 28:19,20; Mk 16:15,16) that saves, makes one a disciple, is commanded, that is to be taught, that lasts till the end of the world.
pardon me;
just reading thread titles.
Title: "Does water baptism save us" or "Water baptism alone saves us"?
It seems quite a few people who preach water salvation take John 3 out of context and misapply the (water) physical birth to baptism.....which has nothing to do with biblical salvation as that is based upon faith and not works of righteousness of the which Baptism is!
More likely: it's a symbol of what is supposed already to have occurred by faith in the Lord Jesus and His sin atoning death at the Cross.
Faith alone saves; Ephesians 2.8-9; baptism is symbolic of what supposedly has already happened in the life of the believer in the Lord Jesus.
Doesn't matter as both are incorrect as Baptism has nothing to do with salvation as it is a work of righteousness....Yeah I know Sea Perch...you believe that works supplement your salvation....which is also contrary to the truth!
Mk 16:16; Acts 2:38; Rom 6:3-5; Col 2:12-14 among many other verses tell me baptism saves for God has chosen water baptism at the means,the point where Christ's blood wshes away sin.
saved1975 said:
Rom 6:3ff says baptism is the way into Christ's death.
Noting the order of verses like Mk 16:16 and Acts 2:38 both put baptism BEFORE salvation/remission of sin, not AFTER.
saved1975 said:
Neither verse says "Be born again thenbe baptzed" for water baptism is the new birth.
saved1975 said:
The bible tells us water baptism is symbolic of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, one does not walk in newness of life until he goes through this process, Rom 6:4. Yet the bible does not ever say water baptism is only symbolic and nothing more, for the bible also says baptism saves, Mk 16;16; Acts 2:38; 1 Pet 3;21.
Gal 3:27 baptism is what puts one in Christ, so one cannot be in Christ until they are baptized.
1 Cor 12:13 "...baptized into one body..." water baptism is what puts on in Christ's body, the church.
Peter said 8 souls saved by water the antitype to that is us saved by water. The word antitype ("like figure" verse 21 in the KJV) means a mirror reflection. You are the type, your reflection in a mirror is the antitype. The metal die is the type the imprint the die makes is the antitype.
You asked "Well, how were those 8 souls - 8 people saved?"
Peter answers "saved by water". Many want to change the word "water" to "ark" in verse 20 for the obvious reason.
YOu try and change water to "living water". Peter in both verses 20 and 21 is talking about literal water, h2o.
Again, the OT type is saved by water, literal water flooded the earth, not "living water" nor was the earth flooded with "spirit". So the antitype to water of verse 20 cannot be "living water" or spirit but must be literal water to make the type-to-antitype connection.
Heb 11:8,17 Abraham was in his flesh when he pleased God by obeying God in leaving his land, house and kindred and offereing Isaac?
You ask "Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ - water or Spirit?"
In Acts 2:38 Peter is carrying out Christ's great commission which was disciples (humans) administering water baptism. This human adminstered water baptism made one a disciple, it saves, it is commanded, it is to be taught, and last till the end of the world.
Luke's account of the great commission, Lk 24:47 "And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem."
"beginning at Jerusalem" - Peter was in Jerusalem (Acts 2)when he preached the first recorded gospel sermon.
Peter preached "repentance and remission of sins" in v38 when He commanded his hearers to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins.
"in His name" Peter told them to be baptized in the name for the Lord. The exact same water baptism of Acts 10:48 that was "in the name of the Lord"
It all fits together perfectly.
just showing you that water is very often used figuratively and symbolically in the Bible and "spirit" isn't; that's all.
read my post again: i'm not saying we should forsake baptism.
right then; how many things save us? one? many?
do we trust in one atonement, one Lord, not forsaking His commands,
or trust in many works and rituals?
we must then examine the baptism as it is necesary but to keep in mind and firstmore it is the grace of our Lord jesus but if one dares to say teach to refuse the baptism then one could be deemed not saved my answer it is vitaly nesesary but it is not the source of salvation .
In post #58 Posthuman was trying to make water of Jn 3:5 to mean "living water" of Jn 4:10, make water mean some kind of spirit.
You say water means physical birth.
See what happens when people do not stick with what Jn 3:5 really means?