Does water baptism save us

[faroukfarouk]

Also, Ephesians 5.26 speaks of 'the washing of water by the word'.

 

[Sirk]

Jesus said that He is the living water and that whoever comes to Him and drinks will have eternal life.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Also, Ephesians 5.26 speaks of 'the washing of water by the word'.

amen, it is the gospel which makes us clean. not some baptismal or river

 

[saved1975]

For someone that throws around "Greek says this" and "Greek says that" should know that "υδατος" in John 3:5 is "water"

can you show one place in the bible that "υδατος" is not translated water? it is used at least 82 time in 6 inflections and all are translated "water"

1 Pet 3:20 there is no doubt "water" is the intent of the meaning and the Greek under it is the same "υδατος" as John 3:5 :


1 Peter 3:20 (TR)
απειθησασιν ποτε οτε απαξ εξεδεχετο η του θεου μακροθυμια εν ημεραις νωε κατασκευαζομενης κιβωτου εις ην ολιγαι τουτ εστιν οκτω ψυχαι διεσωθησαν δι υδατος

1 Peter 3:20 (NKJV) who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

John 3:5 (TR)
απεκριθη ο ιησους αμην αμην λεγω σοι εαν μη τις γεννηθη εξ υδατος και πνευματος ου δυναται εισελθειν εις την βασιλειαν του θεου

John 3:5 (NKJV) Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

The Greek word does mean water, but the Greek meaning for water in Jn 3: 5, is the word.
Jn 15: 3. Eph 5: 26. James 1: 18.
1 Pet 1: 22---23.

 

[SeaBass]

has anyone done that? why accuse everyone of it?

You did. If you claim you have not, then what was the purpose of you quoting Jn 4:10 when Jn 3:5 was the verse being considered?

have you read the dialogue you're talking about?
Jesus told him, "

unless a man is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God"
Nicodemus replied: "how can a man be born when he is old?"
Jesus said: "unless a man is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God"

now what makes you think our Lord meant by "of water" something other than physical birth - since that is what Nicodemus was talking about? what makes you think our Lord appears "dumb" ?

If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
(John 3:12)

Proper exegesis requires a word be understood literally unless something in the context shows it is being used figuratively. NOTHING in the context of Jn 3:5 shows that either water or spirit are being used figuratively.


The new birth was something Nicodemus had NOT experienced. He had experienced the physical birth, so the new birth has nothing to do with the physical birth, 1 Pet 1:23.


"unless a man is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God"

If water means physical birth, then why would Jesus tell a full grown adult man standing in front of him "unless you are physically born you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven?" How little sense that makes. It makes Jesus appear to be too dumb to realize Nicodemus was ALREADY physically born.

Nicodemus asked "how can a man be born when he is old?"

Obviously Nicodemus understood the impossibility of being physically born a second time. So he understood Jesus was NOT talking about the physical birth, he just did not know (but should have known, v10) the type of birth Jesus was talking about.

 

[SeaBass]

SeaBass, you teach the false doctrine of baptismal regeneration and works salvation.

Are you a member of the Church of Christ or the Roman Catholic Church, perhaps?

I do not know what you mean by baptismal regeneration, but I teach and believed what the bible say about water baptism, Mk 16:16; Acts 2:38; Rom 6:3-5; Col 2:12-14; Gal 3:27; 1 Pet 3:21 that water baptism saves. There is no reason for anyone to think otherwise unless they approach the bible with preconceived ideas on how they think men should be saved.

There is no verse that teaches "do nothing and thou shalt be saved". Can you explain to me how can a man go thru his entire life and never do any obedient works God has commanded him to do yet still be saved?

I am a member of the church of Christ.

 

[posthuman]

You did. If you claim you have not, then what was the purpose of you quoting Jn 4:10 when Jn 3:5 was the verse being considered?

(in re: Jesus meant the same thing by "living water" talking with the woman at the well as He did by "born of water" talking with Nicodemus)

i didn't. you asked me flatly if i did. i told you i didn't.

why did i point at John 4:10? honestly i didn't read the first few pages of the thread; i saw you ask why people take "water" figuratively and not "spirit" - and responded to that, showing you where Christ used "water" figuratively.

i'm sorry you assumed i was talking about a verse i hadn't mentioned - and i apologize for interjecting a comment without reading the whole thread. but i thought i made myself clear several pages ago when you first misinterpreted my post & intention.

 

[SeaBass]

Did water baptism save the thief on the cross. Or how bout the man that accepted Christ on his death bed. Reckon what did?

The thief is not an example of NT salvation and no one knows with any certainty if he was or was not baptized.

The NT gospel does not teach "death bed salvation".

 

[SeaBass]

How convincing... I'm yet to see any evidence of your claims

Evidence of what?

 

[Elizabeth619]

Anyone notice in Leviticus anytime someone touches something unclean they are to wash themselves, clothing...etc so they can become clean again? I know we aren't bound by those laws, but I do find that interesting. Anytime an Israelite comes in contact with something unclean they are to cleanse them self with water.

Water cleansed the Earth in the time of Noah.
The Hebrew slaves passed through the waters of the Red Sea leaving behind their slave life, and into a new life. Paul stated this was a form of baptism.
In Ezekiel 36 the prophecy is about Jesus and sprinkling water:
24 “I will take you out of those nations, gather you together, and bring you back to your own land.25 Then I will sprinkle pure water on you and make you pure. I will wash away all your filth, the filth from those nasty idols, and I will make you pure.26 I will also put a new spirit in you to change your way of thinking. I will take out the heart of stone from your body and give you a tender, human heart.27 I will put my Spirit inside you[a] and change you so that you will obey my laws. You will carefully obey my commands.


What is obviously a purification process. The Israelites are commanded to do it, and the apostles preached on baptism. In the NT people were baptized. If baptism wasn't important then there would be no scripture on it in the NT and it would not have been prophesied in the OT.

And to those who say being born of water and spirit means the actual birthing process, well.... everyone knows that an unborn baby is surrounded by water. Every person is born of water. That childbirth is a natural process, and has been going on since Eve had kids. By even holding to that belief you are saying that a baby who died in the womb won't go to Heaven. They were never born. They died beforehand. Being born of water is strictly about a spiritual rebirth.

 

[posthuman]

Proper exegesis requires a word be understood literally unless something in the context shows it is being used figuratively. NOTHING in the context of Jn 3:5 shows that either water or spirit are being used figuratively.

if you take "born of water" to mean 'water baptism' isn't that just a wee bit figurative ?

"unless a man is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God"

If water means physical birth, then why would Jesus tell a full grown adult man standing in front of him "unless you are physically born you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven?" How little sense that makes. It makes Jesus appear to be too dumb to realize Nicodemus was ALREADY physically born.

slow down hoss. Jesus tells him he must be born again.
that means though he's already been born once (i.e. 'of water', physical birth) he needs to be reborn (i.e. 'of Spirit')
if He meant he needed to be born of flesh, of water baptism, and of the spirit, He would have said "ye must be born again and again"
Nicodemus understood this to mean a physical thing. he didn't ask Jesus "how can a man be baptized again?" -- but "can a man crawl back into his mothers womb?"

Obviously Nicodemus understood the impossibility of being physically born a second time. So he understood Jesus was NOT talking about the physical birth, he just did not know (but should have known, v10) the type of birth Jesus was talking about.

obviously Nicodemus understood that Christ wasn't talking about a ritual water baptism, or He would have asked him "can a man wade back into the mikvah a second time" instead of the womb. He understood that a man couldn't be physically born of flesh a second time, but he took Jesus to mean exactly what Jesus said: "one must be born again" not "baptized again"

 

[SeaBass]

why do i quote it??

because it's the Truth!

but what is foremost? His own mercy

no one who does not believe Jesus is the Son of God, come in the flesh, crucified and resurrected, but is baptized, sees the kingdom of God. anyone that receives Him will be baptized and receive the Holy Spirit - even if it's not in a mikvah and speaking in tongues.
part of our trouble is thinking "baptism" - which is a transliterated Greek word, not a translated one - is the simple act of being dunked in or sprinkled with water. baptism is a public initiation into a faith or system. when you swear/affirm to tell the truth, whole truth and nothing but the truth in a US courtroom, you're "baptized" into the court. they just don't happen to follow the Jewish tradition of water immersion in this cast. we "baptize" our presidents into office by making them swear to uphold the constitution amid pomp and ceremony.
see, baptism isn't an indefinite term. you don't just randomly "baptize" someone. you must be baptized into or unto something. we are baptized into Christ. if you truly receive Him, you become baptized into Him, and the Faith, and He is faithful to send His Spirit. if you receive Him, you love Him, and if you love Him, you obey His commands - Christ Himself never said "be baptized" - but He told His apostles to baptize in His name, and in the name of the Father and Holy Ghost. what this means is that they were sent to pledge those that believed into the Faith in the Father, through the Son and by the Spirit. He didn't just send them out to "baptize" but to make disciples, teaching, baptizing into something - into the name of God, by His mercy!
"water baptism" itself is a public pledge, an initiation, a declaration. it is what it means that saves - it means i believe​.

Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.
Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
(Matthew 10:31-33)

Tts 3:5 proves my point:

The bible does not contradict itself, there is just one way to be saved, therefore the following verses MUST all express the same idea:

Jn 3:5--------------------spirit+++++++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1Cor12:13----------------spirit++++++++++++++baptized>>>>>>>>>>in the body
Tts 3:5------------------Holy Ghost++++++washing of reg.>>>>>>>>>saved


spirit/spirit/Holy Ghost are equivalent

water/baptized/washing of reg. are equivalent

in the kingdom/in the body/saved are all equivalent


So all three verses that speak of the new birth which includes water baptism washing of regeneration.

The bible being its own best commentary shows that "water" of Jn 3:5 is equivalent to "baptized' of 1 Cor 12:13 and "washing of reg." of Tts 3:5 and has nothing remotely to do with the physical birth. The physical birth is not in any of the 3 verses. Yet according to you and your attempt to twist Jn 3:5 just to get water baptism out of it, you have "water", "baptized" and "washing of regeneration" all refer to the physical birth.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

SeaBass:

What does this mean: That which is born of the flesh is flesh; that which is born of the Spirit is spirit? Is it further reiteration of verse 5? Why would Jesus even say this if he was not speaking of water being the first birth and Spirit being the second birth - born again? Wouldn't the "earthly things" be - being born of water [first birth] and "heavenly things" be being born of the Spirit?

Again, How can dunking in water create within someone the new man, that new creation in Christ? How does water make you a child of God?

 

[SeaBass]

John 3: 5 doesn't mention water baptism, And according to the Greek, The "Water" in v5, Is the word, John 15: 3. Eph 5: 26.
James 1: 18. 1 Pet 1: 22--23.

There are three Christian baptisms, And the "ONE" baptism in Eph 4: 5, Is the rebirth, See 1 Cor 12: 13.

The Greek Bible texts prove that water baptism doesn't save, And the Bible proves it as well.

The disciples were baptised in water, but they weren't saved, Until some of them were in John 20: 22, The rest in Acts 2.

Paul was saved three days before he was baptised in the Holy Ghost, And that was before he was bpatised in water.

The Gentiles in Acts 10, were saved, baptized in the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues, But they weren't baptised in water at that time.

An understanding of the whole Bible proves that water baptism doesn't save.
The translators have mislead us, Because the Greek Bible texts says water baptism doesn't save.

Jn 3:5 and 1 Cor 12:13 both refer to the new birth and when comparing the two verses "water' of Jn 3:5 is equivalent to "baptized" of 1 Cor 12:13.

(1) The is just one baptism that is in effect today, Eph 4:5. That one baptism being Christ's baptism of the great commission, Mt 28:19,20; Mk 16:15,16; Lk 24:47. From these passages on the great commission we can see that this baptism was administered by humans, humans can only administer water baptism. This water baptism made one a disciple. This water baptism was commanded to all men. This water baptism saves/remits sins. This water baptism was to be taught to new disciples so they go and water baptize. This water baptism lasts till the end of the world. No other baptisms mentioned in the NT fits these criteria of Christ's baptism of the great commission. So no other baptisms mentioned in the NT can be the one baptism of Eph 4:5 that is in effect.

(2) Acts 15:11 Jew and Gentile are saved in the same manner. In the book of Acts, the like manner way that took place in those conversions was this water baptism of the great commission. For example, Acts 8 the eunuch was taught Jesus ,then WATER baptized, not bpatized with any other baptism but water baptism, the one baptism of Eph 4:5, Christ's baptism of the great commission.

(3) John's baptism ended at Acts 2 and was replaced with Christ's baptism. Those baptized with John's baptism would have their sins remitted, Mk 1:4, with Christ's crucifixition.

(4) Acts 22:16 "And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Saul was in his sins and remained lost in those sins until he obeyed by arising and being baptized. So he was still lost in his sins while he was on the road to Damascus.

(5) Acts 10, no verse anywhere say baptism with the Holy Ghost saves. So they were lost until they "worked righteousness" v35 by submitting to God's command to be water baptized for remission of sins. verse 47,48 This is Christ's baptism of the great commission that is water baptism, makes Cornelius a disciple, saves and commanded.

In Acts 11, when Peter returns to Jerusalem, he tells the Jew BY ORDER the events that took place in Acts 10.with the Gentiles. Acts 11:15 as Peter began to speak the Holy Ghost fell upon them. So Peter had not told them the saving words by which they would be saved, Acts 11:14. Again, the context says the Gentiles would be saved by WORDS not by being baptized with the Holy Ghost.

 

[SeaBass]

I don't believe that I tried to make John 3:5 figuratively. I compared John 4:10 and John 7:38.39. I quoted John 3:5,6 to show you that being born of water refers to physical birth NOT water baptism.


Again, How can dunking in water create within someone the new man, that new creation in Christ? How does water make you a child of God?

In Jn 3:5 water and spirit are both literal. Some try to make water to mean something figuative to try and get around the verse teaching water baptism as being the new birth.


The bible is its own best commentary. These 3 verses all speak of the new birth:

Jn 3:5------spirit++++++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1cor12:13--spirit++++++++++++++baptized>>>>>>>>>>>in the body
Tts 3:5----Holy Ghost++++++++washing of regen.>>>>>>saved


Since these three verses must all express the same idea we can see that water of Jn 3:5 is equivalent to "baptized" of 1 Cor 12:13 and "washing of regeneration" of Tts 3:5. "Baptized" of 1 Cor 12:13 and "washing of regeneration" of Tts 3:5 have nothing to do with physical birth

 

[posthuman]

In Jn 3:5 water and spirit are both literal. Some try to make water to mean something figuative to try and get around the verse teaching water baptism as being the new birth.

why do you take "born" as figurative here?
and what does Christ mean "that which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of spirit is spirit" ?

following your interpretation, He means water baptism is carnal?

 

[saved1975]

Jn 3:5 and 1 Cor 12:13 both refer to the new birth and when comparing the two verses "water' of Jn 3:5 is equivalent to "baptized" of 1 Cor 12:13.

(1) The is just one baptism that is in effect today, Eph 4:5. That one baptism being Christ's baptism of the great commission, Mt 28:19,20; Mk 16:15,16; Lk 24:47. From these passages on the great commission we can see that this baptism was administered by humans, humans can only administer water baptism. This water baptism made one a disciple. This water baptism was commanded to all men. This water baptism saves/remits sins. This water baptism was to be taught to new disciples so they go and water baptize. This water baptism lasts till the end of the world. No other baptisms mentioned in the NT fits these criteria of Christ's baptism of the great commission. So no other baptisms mentioned in the NT can be the one baptism of Eph 4:5 that is in effect.

(2) Acts 15:11 Jew and Gentile are saved in the same manner. In the book of Acts, the like manner way that took place in those conversions was this water baptism of the great commission. For example, Acts 8 the eunuch was taught Jesus ,then WATER baptized, not bpatized with any other baptism but water baptism, the one baptism of Eph 4:5, Christ's baptism of the great commission.

(3) John's baptism ended at Acts 2 and was replaced with Christ's baptism. Those baptized with John's baptism would have their sins remitted, Mk 1:4, with Christ's crucifixition.

(4) Acts 22:16 "And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Saul was in his sins and remained lost in those sins until he obeyed by arising and being baptized. So he was still lost in his sins while he was on the road to Damascus.

(5) Acts 10, no verse anywhere say baptism with the Holy Ghost saves. So they were lost until they "worked righteousness" v35 by submitting to God's command to be water baptized for remission of sins. verse 47,48 This is Christ's baptism of the great commission that is water baptism, makes Cornelius a disciple, saves and commanded.

In Acts 11, when Peter returns to Jerusalem, he tells the Jew BY ORDER the events that took place in Acts 10.with the Gentiles. Acts 11:15 as Peter began to speak the Holy Ghost fell upon them. So Peter had not told them the saving words by which they would be saved, Acts 11:14. Again, the context says the Gentiles would be saved by WORDS not by being baptized with the Holy Ghost.

I have given you Biblical evidence that water baptism doesn't save.
And the Greek Biblical texts back the Bible up.
To understand the Bible, you need to know when the translators have translated the scriptures correctly and when they have wrongly translated the scriptures.

And the translators have mislead people into believing that water baptism saves.

I never said the baptism in the Holy Ghost saves, in Acts 10, the Gentiles believed Peter's preaching about remission of sins and would have got saved just before they were baptized in the Holy Ghost.

 

[SeaBass]

In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical.

In Acts 2:38, repentance is the means of receiving forgiveness and baptism is the symbol (in reference to) true repentance and forgiveness.

Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 10:43-47 - To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins. While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" *What happened to baptism in verse 43? Water baptism followed believing, receiving the Holy Spirit and conversion.

Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?" When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 15:8,9 - So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. *What happened to baptism?

Faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38; 3:19; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9). *Perfect Harmony*



Peter went on to say, "not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ." The Greek word “antitupon,” as used in I Peter 3: 21, is “an adjective, used as a noun,” and denotes, in the NT, “a corresponding type,” being “said of baptism.” “The circumstances of the flood, the ark and its occupants, formed a type, and baptism forms “a corresponding type,” each setting forth the spiritual realities of the death, burial, and resurrection of believers in their identification with Christ. Noah was saved by the ark “through (via) water.” Water was not the means of their salvation, but the ark. The ark is what both delivered and preserved them. Christian baptism pictures salvation and reveals, symbolically, the gospel. The word “antitupon” identifies baptism as a figure. So baptism does not save us in any sense other than as a figure. It is the figure of “the death, burial and resurrection of Christ by which we are actually saved.” A symbol is not the reality but a picture of the reality.

Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. This is clearly Spirit baptism, not water baptism.

Notice in John 4:10, Jesus said "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." Water baptism is not living water by which we drink into one Spirit. You seem to have trouble making a distinction between Spirit baptism and water baptism.


Again, just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ark for the SAVING of his household). Are you trying to change Hebrews 11:7? Who came in contact with the water and did it save them?



The Greek word for "figure" is "antitupon." Vine, in his Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, defines the word as "a corresponding type." He says, "It is not a case of type and antitype but of two types, that in Genesis, the type, and baptism, the corresponding type." (Vol. 2, page 96). Cremer's Lexicon says the word signifies an "image or similitude." Thayer's Lexicon defines it as "a thing resembling another." The flood symbolizes baptism and baptism symbolizes salvation. The flood was a figure of baptism in that in both instances the water that spoke of judgment (in the flood the death of the wicked, in baptism the death of Christ and the believer). Baptism is a symbol of salvation in that it depicts Christ's death, burial and resurrections and our identification with Him in these experiences. In reality, believers are saved by what baptism symbolizes--Christ's death and resurrection. You continue to confuse the symbol with the reality. You also disregard the ark (a type of Christ) as saving Noah and his family and Spirit baptism in Ephesians 4:5 and 1 Corinthians 12:13.



Peter said that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not the part which saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism). We could paraphrase Peter's statement by saying, "Baptism now saves you--not the outward physical ceremony of baptism but the inward spiritual reality which baptism represents."



False. You have been misled. The genitive in the Greek text is correctly translated as the pledge of a good conscience, not for a good conscience. It is a pledge made from a good conscience. Baptism is a pledge to God made from a good conscience. It is that aspect of baptism (what is signified, “the answer of a good conscience toward God”) rather than the external rite (the sign, the application of water) that saves. The symbol and the reality are so closely related that the symbol is sometimes used to refer to the reality and that seems to be what is confusing you. A FLOOD OF CONFUSION.


Remission of sins and their appeal to God for a good conscience came through repentance/faith, which was then signified (yet not procured) in baptism. Also see Acts 3:19; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9.

But what actually saved Noah and his family during the separation?



Again, the genitive in the Greek text is correctly translated as the pledge of a good conscience, not for a good conscience. It is a pledge made from a good conscience. Baptism is a pledge to God made from a good conscience.

​

Baptism is for remission of sins, repentance does not remit sins, that is why Peter said in 1 Pet 3:21 baptism saves, not rpentance saves. In Acts 22:16 it would be in baptism that Saul sins would be washed away.


1 Pet 3:21 Peter said 8 souls saved by water.

You say "Water was not the means of their salvation, but the ark."

You are clearly changing what Peter said to avoid the inevitable fact Peter is saying water baptism saves. So you have no valid argument by changing verses.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

In Jn 3:5 water and spirit are both literal. Some try to make water to mean something figuative to try and get around the verse teaching water baptism as being the new birth.

The bible is its own best commentary. These 3 verses all speak of the new birth:

Jn 3:5------spirit++++++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1cor12:13--spirit++++++++++++++baptized>>>>>>>>>>>in the body
Tts 3:5----Holy Ghost++++++++washing of regen.>>>>>>saved


Since these three verses must all express the same idea we can see that water of Jn 3:5 is equivalent to "baptized" of 1 Cor 12:13 and "washing of regeneration" of Tts 3:5. "Baptized" of 1 Cor 12:13 and "washing of regeneration" of Tts 3:5 have nothing to do with physical birth

Jesus comes right out in verse 6 relating it to verse 5 - That which is born of the flesh is flesh; that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

I never said that Titus 3:5 nor 1 Cor. 12:13 had anything to do with physical birth . . Titus 3:5 is regarding the new birth - that which is born of the Spirit is spirit and 1 Corinthians 12:13 has to do with the new birth - the only way we are baptized into one body is by the one Spirit and we have been made to drink into that one Spirit . . .that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. . . .meaning to be born again! I give up - you are just all over the place now.

Are you ever going to answer my questions in #213?

 

[posthuman]

In Jn 3:5 water and spirit are both literal. Some try to make water to mean something figuative to try and get around the verse teaching water baptism as being the new birth.

taking "born of water" ... "what is born of flesh is flesh"
to mean water baptism
is itself "figurative" and likens water baptism to "born of flesh" -- meaning it is worthless and cannot save -
"For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace."
(Romans 8:6)