Does water baptism save us

[Jabberjaw]

What you fail to understand is it is not WATER baptism which does those things, But the actual baptism of God himself.

Even John understood this, He will baptize with the HS and fire. Who do you think Jesus was going to baptise? If your not baptized by him, your not washed, if your not washed, your still dead in your sin.

Jesus baptized nobody,

John 4:2 (NKJV) (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples),

Yet who did Jesus commission to baptized? He dose not say "Go, I will baptized", He sent disciples, to make disciples,

Matthew 28:19 (NKJV) Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

You cannot get past the fact Jesus did not say He would baptize anyone in the great commission, He sent his disciples, and His disciples Like John could only baptize with water (Mat 3:11, Luke 3:16)

 

[notuptome]

No one has shown any evidence that Jn 3:5; 1 COr 12:13; Titus 3:5 contradict each other or that "born of water". "baptized" and "washing of regeneration" do not refer to water baptism but all really refer to the "physical birth".

Here again you will not understand what I have said. The passage in John 3:5 teaches that the water here is physical birth which then necessitates a Spiritual birth which Christ explains several verses further into the passage. Jesus is not teaching that one must receive water baptism to be saved. You are drawing false and misleading conclusions from the passage.

Titus 3:5 is clearly addressing Holy Spirit baptism and not water baptism. Any honest reader of the passage would come to the conclusion.

1 Cor 12:13 is quite obviously teaching Holy Spirit baptism and not water.

You can grind away as long as you like but you cannot overcome the truth that what you are teaching is unsound doctrine sourcing from incorrect exegesis of the scriptures. You have a position and all the verses you use are shoehorned into the position. Round pegs can be hammered into square holes but the fit is apparent to even the casual observer.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But you do not understand that God "does those things", such as cut away the body of sin, only when one is buried in baptism. Col 2:12-14.

God does not need the help of some pastor or priest. Nor does he need water, he is perfectly capable and has been washing people since Adam first sinned. That is what the first death which occurred on earth to cover the sin of mankind represented.

Silly you who thinks God needs a mans help. he never has, and he never will.

Maybe one day you will trust God and not men, but it does not look like that will ever happen.

And your horrendous interpretation of Col 2 is just amazing, You ignore everything Paul said.

1. Not by the hands of men, But the hands of God we are cleansed
2. Our baptism is the WORK OF GOD, WHO RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD. Not the work of some priest in some filthy body of water.

col 2: 11 - 12 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body 8of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Unless you think your pastor rose Christ from the dead. he had no power to circumcise your body of sins in the flesh to make you clean. Period!

Mt 3:11 does not apply to us today.

If it does not. We have no way to eternal life. What do you think Christ came for?

"behold the lamb of God WHO TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD"

It applies to ALL in the world. that is why jesus came.

 

[notuptome]

In two straight posts you accuse me of false teaching and nothing more. You have no biblical proof to back up what you say is the real issue here.

There is not one verse in the bible that teaches that water baptism saves. Every verse in the bible teaches that God saves by His grace. The one constant theme from Genesis through Revelation is that God saves by grace. The second constant theme in the bible is mans rebellious attitude towards Gods grace.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SeaBass]

Not in your interpretation.

1 John 3 is how to be born again, Believe in the name of the son sent, and you will have eternal life. No mention of water or baptism. Only faith is required to be born again

2. 1 cor 12 is an act performed by God himself. Not man, and not in water. We are literally baptized INTO CHRIST (Christ being the item we are immersed into) not in water.

3. Titus 3: 5 lets us know who is the one who washed us. The HS, Not in water, Not in some baptism, But in him applying the blood of Christ to us.

You pulled all this stuff you posted above out of thin air.


Stand back and let the bible speak for itself:



Jn 3:5--------------spirit++++++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1cor12:13----------spirit++++++++++++++baptized>>>>>>>>>>in the body
Tts 3:5------------Holy Ghost+++++++washing of reg>>>>>>>>>>saved


"In the kingdom" and "in the body" and "saved" are all equivalent referring to salvation. Since there is just one way to be saved, no alternatives, then:

Spirit = Spirit = Holy Ghost
born of water = baptism = washing of reg,
in the kingdom = in the body = saved


1) You post about Jn 3 and say no mention of water when water is plainly mentioned in verse 5.

2) 1 cor 12:13 does not say God performs this baptism, that came out of thin air. Who perofrmed the baptism in 1 Cor 1:14,16 upon the Corinthians? Paul, by water baptizing them as a human administrator of the great commission of Christ.

3) Tts 3:5 does not say the HS washes us, that also is taken out of thin air.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are re-writing the verse and the Greek does not support you changing verses to force them to fit your bias.

I did not change the verse. The I interpreted the greek correctly.

Remission of sin and baptism are two different tenses and person, they do not fit together in any language.

 

[SeaBass]

So we are required to work for salvation and they, who had a whole list of works to do (over 600 last time I counted) which had nothing to do with theirs, they were saved by faith alone.

Wow.

Yes, Heb 5:9 says obedience is required to be saved. God has vengeance upon those that "obey not" the gospel of Christ, 2 Thess 1:8.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Rom 6; 1 Cor 12; Gal 3 all are the one human administered water baptism of Christ's great commission. Baptizo in those verses refer to a literal immersion and none of those context support a figurative use of baptizo.

wrong.

no greek speaking person would have understood this, Baptism is not the religious word the church has made it out to be, it is an actual verb, with a subject, which must go together.

You do not interpret the verse "baptize in water" in death, "baptize in water" in burial. "baptize in water" in christ. you baptize into death, you baptize into water, you baptize into christ (actually it is God doing the work.)

 

[Cassian]

Here again you will not understand what I have said. The passage in John 3:5 teaches that the water here is physical birth which then necessitates a Spiritual birth which Christ explains several verses further into the passage. Jesus is not teaching that one must receive water baptism to be saved. You are drawing false and misleading conclusions from the passage.

Titus 3:5 is clearly addressing Holy Spirit baptism and not water baptism. Any honest reader of the passage would come to the conclusion.

1 Cor 12:13 is quite obviously teaching Holy Spirit baptism and not water.

You can grind away as long as you like but you cannot overcome the truth that what you are teaching is unsound doctrine sourcing from incorrect exegesis of the scriptures. You have a position and all the verses you use are shoehorned into the position. Round pegs can be hammered into square holes but the fit is apparent to even the casual observer.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

But that is ONLY according to you. Could you give any evidence that this idea you have was ever believed and practiced before the Reformation? Do you think Christians existed before the Reformation? Do you think that the Holy Spirit got it wrong for 1500 years and got it right at the Reformation?

 

[saved1975]

Right, John was not speaking to us today. We cannot tell by the immediate context of Mt 3:11 who either "you" refer to. Looking to the fulfillment of John's words in Acts 1:1-5, Jesus was speaking to His apostles. Jesus refers to Johns words of Mt 3:11 in Act 1:5 and we can see that the apostles are the "you" that was promised baptism with the Holy Spirit. No one today was given this promise.


Water baptism saves:
Mk 16;16
Jn 3:5
Acts 2:38
Rom 6:3-5
1 Cor 1:12,13
1 Cor 12:13
Gal 3:27
Eph 5:26
Col 2:12-14
1 Pet 1:22
1 Pet 3:21
Titus 3:5
etc, etc

Some of those scriptures are referring to the rebirth, Not water baptism.



Water baptism is a symbol of salvation. Not the thing that saves.

 

[SeaBass]

Here again you will not understand what I have said. The passage in John 3:5 teaches that the water here is physical birth which then necessitates a Spiritual birth which Christ explains several verses further into the passage. Jesus is not teaching that one must receive water baptism to be saved. You are drawing false and misleading conclusions from the passage.

Titus 3:5 is clearly addressing Holy Spirit baptism and not water baptism. Any honest reader of the passage would come to the conclusion.

1 Cor 12:13 is quite obviously teaching Holy Spirit baptism and not water.

You can grind away as long as you like but you cannot overcome the truth that what you are teaching is unsound doctrine sourcing from incorrect exegesis of the scriptures. You have a position and all the verses you use are shoehorned into the position. Round pegs can be hammered into square holes but the fit is apparent to even the casual observer.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU are putting the physical birth into Jn 3:5 for no reason than to protect your theological bias against God requiring water baptism to be saved.



Jn 3;5; 1 Cor 12:13; Titus 3:5; Eph 5:26; 1 Pet 1:22 are all verse that deal with the new birth. Where is the physical birth in 1 Cor 12:13; Titus 3:5; Eph 5:26; 1 Pet 1:22?


Furthermore Jesus could realize a full grown adult standing in front of Him had ALREADY been physically born so why would Jesus command someone to be physically born when he already has?? Could Jesus not realize Nicodemus had already been physically born?


Has anyone ever asked you for direction to the local Wal-Mart? Did you respond by telling them to get to the "kingdom" of Wal-Mart you must be physically born. Once we determine if you have been physically born then you can take Hwy 5 and go 2 miles, turn right and there is the "kingdom" of Wal-Mart???

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus baptized nobody,

John 4:2 (NKJV) (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples),

Yet who did Jesus commission to baptized? He dose not say "Go, I will baptized", He sent disciples, to make disciples,

Matthew 28:19 (NKJV) Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

You cannot get past the fact Jesus did not say He would baptize anyone in the great commission, He sent his disciples, and His disciples Like John could only baptize with water (Mat 3:11, Luke 3:16)

That is because his baptism is spiritual not physical. But you do not like to hear that. You would rather your OWN WORK apply.

Go ahead, try to save yourself. you will fail.

John said he WILL baptize. Unless you think John is a liar. then again..... It seams you like to make liars out of God and his people.

 

[TRUTH7]

Scripture is quite clear! Acts2v38. 'Then Peter said unto them,Repent,and be baptised every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.'

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You pulled all this stuff you posted above out of thin air.


Stand back and let the bible speak for itself:



Jn 3:5--------------spirit++++++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1cor12:13----------spirit++++++++++++++baptized>>>>>>>>>>in the body
Tts 3:5------------Holy Ghost+++++++washing of reg>>>>>>>>>>saved


"In the kingdom" and "in the body" and "saved" are all equivalent referring to salvation. Since there is just one way to be saved, no alternatives, then:

Spirit = Spirit = Holy Ghost
born of water = baptism = washing of reg,
in the kingdom = in the body = saved


1) You post about Jn 3 and say no mention of water when water is plainly mentioned in verse 5.

2) 1 cor 12:13 does not say God performs this baptism, that came out of thin air. Who perofrmed the baptism in 1 Cor 1:14,16 upon the Corinthians? Paul, by water baptizing them as a human administrator of the great commission of Christ.

3) Tts 3:5 does not say the HS washes us, that also is taken out of thin air.

Get out of Gods way and let HIM wash you. As he said, Unless I WASH YOU, you have no place with me.

Stop trusting in men, and start trusting in the power of God to clean you completely from your sin based in his own death.

 

[SeaBass]

God does not need the help of some pastor or priest. Nor does he need water, he is perfectly capable and has been washing people since Adam first sinned. That is what the first death which occurred on earth to cover the sin of mankind represented.

Silly you who thinks God needs a mans help. he never has, and he never will.

Maybe one day you will trust God and not men, but it does not look like that will ever happen.

And your horrendous interpretation of Col 2 is just amazing, You ignore everything Paul said.

1. Not by the hands of men, But the hands of God we are cleansed
2. Our baptism is the WORK OF GOD, WHO RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD. Not the work of some priest in some filthy body of water.

col 2: 11 - 12 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body 8of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Unless you think your pastor rose Christ from the dead. he had no power to circumcise your body of sins in the flesh to make you clean. Period!




If it does not. We have no way to eternal life. What do you think Christ came for?

"behold the lamb of God WHO TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD"

It applies to ALL in the world. that is why jesus came.

More thin air theology.


---If God does not need water or man's help, then why did Christ in His great commission tell disciples to go and water baptize?

---Col 2:11,12 "...circumcision made without hands, putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God"

This passage speaks of a circumcision made "without hands" when God cuts away the body of sin, but says NOTHING about a baptism done without hands.



Mt 3:11 which of the two pronouns "you" in this verse refer to eternally-gratfull and why?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, Heb 5:9 says obedience is required to be saved. God has vengeance upon those that "obey not" the gospel of Christ, 2 Thess 1:8.

Obedience to the gospel. "believe in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, And YOU WILL BE SAVED"

Obedience to Gods law is impossible. we already failed to be obedient enough to save ourself.

That is why Christ came to die.

 

[SeaBass]

There is not one verse in the bible that teaches that water baptism saves. Every verse in the bible teaches that God saves by His grace. The one constant theme from Genesis through Revelation is that God saves by grace. The second constant theme in the bible is mans rebellious attitude towards Gods grace.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Water baptism saves:
Mk 16;16
Jn 3:5
Acts 2:38
Rom 6:3-5
1 Cor 1:12,13
1 Cor 12:13
Gal 3:27
Eph 5:26
Col 2:12-14
1 Pet 1:22
1 Pet 3:21
Titus 3:5
etc, etc

 

[saved1975]

The is nothing in the context of Jn 3:5 that says water means anything other than water.

The bible is not a false religion:

Jn 3:5-----------spirit++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1cor12;13-------spirit++++++++++baptized>>>>>>>>>in the body
Tts 3:5---------Holy Ghost+++++washing of reg.>>>>>saved


"born of water" = "baptized" = "washing of regeneration". Three different terms referring to the exact same thing: water baptism.

Born of water, And washing of regeneration, IS NOT water baptism.

You can believe what you want to, But it doesn't change the truth, Which is, Water baptism doesn't save.

You still haven't told me how you got saved, [If you are saved], Or how you got baptised in water. [If you are]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Scripture is quite clear! Acts2v38. 'Then Peter said unto them,Repent,and be baptised every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.'

Your reading a flawed english txt.

The greek does not say this. the words do not fit.

Peter told everyone to repent, and said they would recieve the gift of the spirit., He only told individuals to be baptized because they had remission of sin.

The Old English versions were close (Plural Ye verses singular you)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

More thin air theology.


---If God does not need water or man's help, then why did Christ in His great commission tell disciples to go and water baptize?

lol. He did not tell them to baptise them to save them, He told them to MAKE DISCIPLES. then BAPTIZE THEM. your logic is flawed, and your not reading the text. God does not need your or anyone elses help to wash someone and make them clean in him.

---Col 2:11,12 "...circumcision made without hands, putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God"

This passage speaks of a circumcision made "without hands" when God cuts away the body of sin, but says NOTHING about a baptism done without hands.

Yes it does. It says this is how one is circumcized with the circumcision done without hands, We are ..."buried with him in baptism, in which you were raised IN THE WORKING OF GOD WHO RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD.

The BAPTISM of God is HOW we are spiritual circumcized. Wow talk about a twist.

Mt 3:11 which of the two pronouns "you" in this verse refer to eternally-gratfull and why?

well there is two choices.

The Holy Spirit

or fire.

But John makes it clear. the fire shall never be quenched (hell fire) so you better not pick that one.

Jesus will either baptise you with the HS and place you in his barn, or he will burn baptize you in the eternal fires of hell.

Your choice you pick. I chose the HS.