Does water baptism save us

[Cassian]

When did Cornelius enter into Christ? Was there water used before he entered, and since he was in what was the purpose of the water?

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Again without editing a single word..... When did Cornelius enter into the Holy Ghost (Christ Jesus) and why the water if he was ALREADY in Christ.... Come on this is from the Bible. Show me NOE verse that says we MUST be baptized IN WATER.... Just one verse....

They have been given several times already in this thread. Why repeat them when you deny scripture.
Any sola scripturist has the freedom to impose his own interpretation/authority upon a text and make it mean just what he needs for his own purpose.
But man's interpretation does not change the meaning of scripture as it has always been understood from the beginning.
Just look around you now and history over the last 500 years. Sola scripturist still have not understood scripture after 500 years.
And disputing a practice, clearly taught in scripture, which has never been disputed or had a false teaching regarding it since it was instituted in the early Church by the Apostles.

 

[Alligator]

Ephesians 2.9

Ephesians 2.10

yes, I believe both verses. But neither of them say faith alone.

 

[faroukfarouk]

yes, I believe both verses. But neither of them say faith alone.

Verse 9 says 'not of works'.

 

[Cassian]

faith is the substance of things HOPED for the EVIDENCE of things NOT SEEN.

You faith is in things seen, not things Hoped for. thus you have no faith. your no better than the one who has zero works. Your faith is just as dead as his.

the difference. He has no faith period
You have faith in things seen, not hoped for..

there is no hope in your gospel. period

I see you have hit the bottom of the barrel. Have nothing substantive to say.

 

[saved1975]

No, in Acts 19, what this proves is baptism in water is more than getting wet or a symbol, it is done after one hears the Gospel (these men didn't) if they didn't hear the Gospel they could not believe, they could not confess Christ because they were not yet taught Christ, once Paul taught them Christ Jesus (the Gospel) proving they were not saved until they were baptized for the right reasons. (and it does not say anything different in the Greek than it does in the English)



No, He was not saved until he was Baptized, you cannot show me where he was saved on the road, this is a conclusion drawn in your own mind with no scriptural authority to back it up (and the Greek says the same thing as the English)



Acts 10 and 11 prove water baptism is the saving baptism of Eph 4:5, Peter being an apostle, having divine revelation and the Holy Spirit guidance would not have had these people be baptized twice unless the second baptism was THE saving baptism, you cannot prove that Holy Spirit baptism is salvific, in fact these passages prove exactly the opposite, that the Holy Spirit baptism does NOT save, but was used twice, once here and once to the Apostles (Jew and Gentile, proving God is not a respecter of person) fulfilling the prophecy of Joel, and never done again after Acts 10.



I proved this wrong already in this post, see the start of it.



Paul did not say he did not baptize, he addressed division by those that claimed their baptism was better than another by who they were baptized by, all those in the Corinthian Church were water baptized or they would not be "in the body" or "In Christ", water baptism is how we get "In Christ".



Just as I thought, you cannot give me the Greek passages you claim make a person saved before baptism, you make false claims, portray as though you know Greek, but you're really going off some other mans false teaching on some website who as most do when they appeal to the Greek, don't use the Greek as it should be to better understand the English but to try and fool the English readers into believing their twisted English interpretation.

Acts 19, Proves that water baptism doesn't save.

Paul was saved at least three day before he was baptised in water, Every good New Testament Bible scholar agree that Paul was converted, [Saved, Born again] in Acts 9: 6. And V 17 proves it, Ananias Called Paul, "BROTHER Saul", Also Paul received the Holy Ghost in V17. No one has the Holy Ghost unless they are saved.
But Paul wasn't baptised in water, Proving that water baptism DOESN'T save.

Acts 10 and 11, Proves that water baptism doesn't save.
The "One baptism" in Eph 4: 5, Is the rebirth, 1 Cor 12: 13, NOT water baptism.

You haven't proved that those in Acts 19, were saved through water baptism, Because you can't prove it.

Paul did say he didn't baptise, 1 Cor 1: 14.

All you are doing is, giving your own thoughts Please stick to the Bible.

I can give you the Greek, Come to my home, Or check it up on the internet.

 

[rainsky]

Do you agree?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I see you have hit the bottom of the barrel. Have nothing substantive to say.

So scripture is not substantial?

we see where your mind is. you just proved I am right. thanks

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Verse 9 says 'not of works'.

he does not understand faith plus nothing = faith and faith minus anything equals faith. he needs to go back to school and learn basic math I guess..

 

[rainsky]

yes, I agree with spoken passage. grace is a gift form GOD

 

[Alligator]

yes, I believe both verses. But neither of them say faith alone.

Verse 9 says 'not of works'.

true, but we must recognize there are different types of works mentioned in scripture. Such as works of the law, Romans 3:28, works of our own merit , Eph. 2:8-9, and works of obedience, Romans 2:6.

 

[mailmandan]

yes, I believe both verses. But neither of them say faith alone.

Neither of them say saved by works. Ephesians 2:8 says saved through faith, not saved through faith and works. Ephesians 2:9 goes on to say NOT BY WORKS. So it's saved through faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST alone. Not to be confused with an empty profession of faith (dead faith) that remains alone (barren of works - James 2:14-24).

 

[posthuman]

true, but we must recognize there are different types of works mentioned in scripture. Such as works of the law, Romans 3:28, works of our own merit , Eph. 2:8-and works of obedience, Romans 2:6.

and that none of these works save us, but God alone by His mercy, offering us grace through the cross and resurrection of Christ, saves us.
He calls us to do His work, sanctifies us towards it and enables us to do it. we don't become His children by doing His work, but because we are become His children, we take part in His work.

to God alone is the glory!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

true, but we must recognize there are different types of works mentioned in scripture. Such as works of the law, Romans 3:28, works of our own merit , Eph. 2:8-9, and works of obedience, Romans 2:6.

true.

Paul answers the question of what kind of work.

"Lest anyone should boast"

Boasting insinuates pride, it insinuates taking credit. This the type of work Paul uses in Eph is ANY work which would cause one to take credit.

Then we go to Titus, Where Paul states not by works of righteousness which we have done (again the type of work is not said, however, the righteous deed shows it would be a good work. whether by the law, or any command given by God) which if salvation was according to any of these works, we could boast of saving ourself.

Thus you MUST interpret the work of Eph not to be work of the law (it does not fit) But ANY work of righteousness which we could do.

 

[Alligator]

Verse 9 says 'not of works'.

he does not understand faith plus nothing = faith and faith minus anything equals faith. he needs to go back to school and learn basic math I guess..

I promise to go back to school and take basic math if you promise to take basic reading comprehension.

 

[Alligator]

true, but we must recognize there are different types of works mentioned in scripture. Such as works of the law, Romans 3:28, works of our own merit , Eph. 2:8-9, and works of obedience, Romans 2:6.

and that none of these works save us, but God alone by His mercy, offering us grace through the cross and resurrection of Christ, saves us.
He calls us to do His work, sanctifies us towards it and enables us to do it. we don't become His children by doing His work, but because we are become His children, we take part in His work.

to God alone is the glory!

So, we should just throw out passages like Rom. 2:6?

 

[SeaBass]

In the way of what? Who do you think saved them? The disciples? You put way to much faith in men. And way to little faith in God.

You posted "Get out of Gods way and let HIM wash you. "

SO if men are in God's way of God washing men, then why did Jesus send disciples to wash/baptize men?

 

[mailmandan]

I deny that faith alone will save you. To claim to have faith in Christ and sit back and not do any works is an insult to Him. If we truly trust Christ, we will do what he says. And yes, like it or not, water baptism is something he requires. Who am I to quibble over his method.

You and I both deny that faith (which remains alone - barren of works) will save because this is a dead faith. James addresses this. In James 2:14, we read of one who "says he has faith" but has no works. This is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith. A dead faith. Where is the proof that it is alive? I will show you my faith by my works. Faith is the root and works are the fruit of salvation. No fruit demonstrates no root.

So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. So to claim to have faith yet have no works to confirm it demonstrates we have a dead faith, not a living faith. Dead faith is an insult to Christ and so is works salvation.

Adding works as a supplement to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to help Him save us is an insult as well! Like it or not, Jesus never said whoever is not water baptized will be condemned, but He clearly said whoever does not believe is condemned already. Salvation is signified, yet not procured by water baptism. You confuse the symbol with the reality.

 

[SeaBass]

Not of works. Give it up.

"Not of works" in Eph 5:9 refer to works of merit, not obedience, Rom 6:16-18.....Paul does not contradict himself as you try and make him.

 

[posthuman]

I promise to go back to school and take basic math if you promise to take basic reading comprehension.

i think we can combine both classes!

This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
(Acts 4:11-12)

salvation is found in exactly 1 person.

1 Savior + 0 other things = 1 name under heaven by which we must be saved.

isn't it good He has brought us into the light so that we can all have fellowship in this

 

[posthuman]

So, we should just throw out passages like Rom. 2:6?

i don't get how you read "to God alone be the glory!"

and think "post says we should throw away parts of the scripture"


no, my friend, we should praise God with joy and thanksgiving, continually, is what we should do!
He has done great things in me! not i, but Christ in me!