Failure in the Education of the High Shool Class of 2014

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
5,256
1,678
113
#1
I'm new to this site, and almost hesitate to comment here, but here goes.

I have one problem with education common standards as implemented in the US. It is extremely difficult to remove the politics from them. Reading material is chosen, not by quality, but by what is acceptable to a select group of people. Math standards are still in the dark ages. Very few children (should be young adults) are capable of defining a problem, let alone solving it. Student's are incapable of writing without a keyboard, language and spell checker. These are the skills that they should have when they leave the third grade. At that point we need to form the analytical skills needed to progress into the future, the ability to use these skills to solve the complex problems that they will face, and the ability to express the solutions of the problems. The challenge is to do this for a generation of parents that are products of a failed education system and a corrupt political system.

I'm speaking as the Grandfather of two graduates. Please let me know what you feel about this year's graduating class.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#2
Nothing new as the state indoctrination system has been up to this for decades. My children never set foot inside a state school.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
5,256
1,678
113
#3
Roger, Don't you believe that our state schools should meet the needs of the students. Most parent's do not have the resources or the ability to provide the type of education that is being denied now.
 
May 4, 2014
288
2
0
#4
I'll readily acknowledge that public education in the United States at present isn't adequately or consistently preparing younger generations of people for the nation's rapidly evolving post-industrial economic infrastructure, and that it arguably doesn't emphasize fundamental skills enough in general (albeit with exceptions, given the wide variance of academic performance in state schools), but it's definitely not altogether accurate to depict public education as the sole culprit. Cultural phenomena, the general status of the socioeconomic infrastructure of communities, and the presence (or lack) of close, supportive, and legitimately empathetic relatives and peers all heavily influence the overall academic performance of schools across the nation beyond the classrooms themselves. In general, I believe it's accurate to describe the nation's educational system as being heavily contingent upon a number of contextual forces that influence the overall academic output of a given district or region from both within and beyond school districts, and that it isn't accurately representative of the broader picture to characterize any one cultural, social, or political entity as being responsible for the status of schools.

With that said, I'm also staunchly opposed to the notion that homeschooling is a generally viable alternative to public education. It can be viable, but more often than not, a homeschooled child statistically isn't going to receive a properly well-rounded education -- and that's to say nothing of the fact that homeschooling often detracts from the valuable social environment of a school, to begin with. Schools may be generally underperforming in the United States, but that isn't necessarily only because the schools themselves are inadequate -- it's just as dependent upon the child's will to learn and participate, which -- again -- is heavily contingent upon the aforementioned variables.
 
May 4, 2014
288
2
0
#5
Roger, Don't you believe that our state schools should meet the needs of the students. Most parent's do not have the resources or the ability to provide the type of education that is being denied now.
That's absolutely correct. Parents often lack the resources, capacity, or even the will to teach their children relevant, applicable information, or even to simply adequately emphasize fundamental skills along the lines of critical thinking, basic problem solving, and the like. It's unfortunate, but reasons for homeschooling all too often boil down to little more than unfounded objections to public education on the basis of misconceptions and politically motivated rhetoric concerning evolution and the like. It's borderline child abuse.
 

skipp

Senior Member
Mar 6, 2014
654
7
0
#6
Our schools are a reflection of our failing society. Schools mirror their communities.
 
May 4, 2014
288
2
0
#7
I have one problem with education common standards as implemented in the US. It is extremely difficult to remove the politics from them. Reading material is chosen, not by quality, but by what is acceptable to a select group of people.
What exactly are you attempting to reference, out of curiosity?
 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
5,256
1,678
113
#8
Liza,

You are a bright young woman. I'm a Christian, husband, father, grandfather, and great-grandfather. I attended public school, a public college, and a public graduate school (Physics and Engineering). I had a wonderful secular career, and a lifetime close relationship with Christ. I hope that you enjoy the same.

I'm not going to answer your question directly. I'm going to challenge you to answer it. You're 19 years old and a recent graduate of high school (public I hope). Think back over the past six years. What books were on your reading list? What books were your classmates reading? Why? In the school that two of my grandchildren are graduating from, the most popular book (I don't list names or authors - I think that parents need to read all the books on the list) on their reading list had more profanity in it than I heard in my twenty years as a sailor. When I asked the teacher (also a Christian) why it was there, his answer was, "I have to used the list provided by the school board". I also found that there were three books written by current politicians (all socially liberal). I'll leave it there. I'll be brief and give you one more objectionable book to me. Let me set the stage first. I am a scientist, and I believe that we have global climate change. The textbook for an earth science course, gave no dissenting science and much of the science it gave was questionable. That is indoctrination, not education.

The two examples are of things that happen when we let politicians write the standards and choose the materials.

May God bless you as you embark on your new future.
Billy
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#9
The American education system was unfortunately replaced by a progressively immoral regressive liberal indoctrination system.

Read my posts in this thread: http://christianchat.com/christian-family-forum/80428-common-education-standards-2.html#post1481280

Read this: The American Education System Must Be Restored ~ Help Fix America First

I'm new to this site, and almost hesitate to comment here, but here goes.

I have one problem with education common standards as implemented in the US. It is extremely difficult to remove the politics from them. Reading material is chosen, not by quality, but by what is acceptable to a select group of people. Math standards are still in the dark ages. Very few children (should be young adults) are capable of defining a problem, let alone solving it. Student's are incapable of writing without a keyboard, language and spell checker. These are the skills that they should have when they leave the third grade. At that point we need to form the analytical skills needed to progress into the future, the ability to use these skills to solve the complex problems that they will face, and the ability to express the solutions of the problems. The challenge is to do this for a generation of parents that are products of a failed education system and a corrupt political system.

I'm speaking as the Grandfather of two graduates. Please let me know what you feel about this year's graduating class.
 
May 4, 2014
288
2
0
#10
I'm not going to answer your question directly. I'm going to challenge you to answer it. You're 19 years old and a recent graduate of high school (public I hope). Think back over the past six years. What books were on your reading list? What books were your classmates reading? Why? In the school that two of my grandchildren are graduating from, the most popular book (I don't list names or authors - I think that parents need to read all the books on the list) on their reading list had more profanity in it than I heard in my twenty years as a sailor. When I asked the teacher (also a Christian) why it was there, his answer was, "I have to used the list provided by the school board". I also found that there were three books written by current politicians (all socially liberal). I'll leave it there. I'll be brief and give you one more objectionable book to me. Let me set the stage first. I am a scientist, and I believe that we have global climate change. The textbook for an earth science course, gave no dissenting science and much of the science it gave was questionable. That is indoctrination, not education.

The two examples are of things that happen when we let politicians write the standards and choose the materials.
My question stems directly from the fact that I haven't, to my knowledge, experienced what might constitute "politically motivated" and subsequently slanted, inaccurate, or otherwise incomplete curriculum (from the perspective of the textbooks or materials themselves, at least). The quality of my classes usually depended on the lesson plans set by the teacher along with the teacher's capacity to efficiently and quickly teach material, as well as the performance of the students. None of my textbooks were, to my judgment, inadequate. Nearly all of the literature I was exposed to in high school was more or less standard, time-tested material along the lines of the Brontë sisters, Shakespeare, Homer, and various anthologies containing relatively run-of-the-mill material. It's certainly true that a small portion of high school literature, especially in reference to AP material late in high school, is mildly to moderately explicit -- but it's certainly not selected on the basis of its explicit nature. It's important to recognize the distinction between literature that offers clearly compelling educational merit and literature with no such merit, as well as the fact that explicit material in a work is legitimately capable of more broadly or accurately defining or supporting the overall philosophy and context of the work in question. A wide array of variables have to be taken into consideration when defining and approving works of literature for schools, and the presence, merit, and ramifications of explicit material are simply one subset of dynamic, contextual variables to consider in this light.

As for science-based curriculum, I'd also have to profess that no material in my school's textbooks has ever listed what might legitimately constitute inaccurate, questionable or otherwise poorly represented science (or pseudoscience, depending on its application) along the lines of alternatives to evolution, misrepresentations or attempted refutations of anthropogenic climate change, or post-chapter questions with a clearly political bias, to my knowledge. Here's an example of what would constitute a politically motivated question in a hypothetical textbook:

"The worldwide scientific consensus is conflicted in its view as to whether humans are contributing to recent climate change. What are some alternatives to anthropogenic climate change? Explain."

That's of course hypothetical, to reiterate, and it probably isn't mentioned or defined in some form or another in many, if any public school textbooks in the United States. It's questionable and inaccurate in that it misrepresents the prevailing, overwhelming scientific consensus concerning predominantly anthropogenic climate change and the general lack of well-substantiated alternatives -- thus, it's arguably "political" in that it can be construed to support a political or social agenda in spite of a clearly overwhelming scientific consensus to the contrary.

Overall, I really don't see any credible evidence to support the notion that politics is dictating school curriculum beyond politically motivated and arguably ineffective initiatives along the lines of No Child Left Behind, which by and large have nothing at all to do with the specifics of the curriculum itself. If you're attempting to imply that the lack of poorly substantiated alternatives to contemporary scientific theories supported by a broad scientific consensus that bill themselves as "science" in school textbooks is evidence of political indoctrination, or that a majority of high school literature is written and dictated by socially liberal politicians with correspondingly "liberal" agendas with an ulterior motive, I'm afraid I'll have to object. Again, there are legitimate, well-established reasons as to why the nation's academic performance is generally (but certainly not universally) inadequate, and "liberal political indoctrination" isn't one of them to any effectual degree.
 
Last edited:
Dec 18, 2013
6,733
45
0
#12
Lol oh pulic schooling. I enjoyed my schooldays, mostly for the friends and good times and the bad times.

Lol but if you want to understand the System of Modern Education's purpose and goal, it's no secret it is intended (though not perfected) to be one of the greatest forms of social and thought manipulation and engineering ever created.

Surely thou older folks know the song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR5ApYxkU-U
[video=youtube;YR5ApYxkU-U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR5ApYxkU-U[/video]

"All in all you're just another brick in the wall"
 
May 4, 2014
288
2
0
#15
Excellent progressive rock band from the days of our forefathers my slightly younger peer. Ask your parents they'll know.
I know what Pink Floyd is, silly. I've listened to most of their songs ad nauseum during a phase I went through several years ago. I'm just playfully questioning your citation of the band in reference to your beliefs concerning modern education. Pink Floyd certainly wouldn't be my first choice in defining and criticizing a given point of view. ;)
 
Dec 18, 2013
6,733
45
0
#16
I know what Pink Floyd is, silly. I've listened to most of their songs ad nauseum during a phase I went through several years ago. I'm just playfully questioning your citation of the band in reference to your beliefs concerning modern education. Pink Floyd certainly wouldn't be my first choice in defining and criticizing a given point of view. ;)
Lol, I know I just enjoy my tasteless sense of humor lol.

Though I must say Pink Floyd hits the nail on the head. Seeing as you are a very supportive of the Western Education system, knowest thou why Socrates the founder of Western education system drank hemlock?

Mind you that is assuming Socrates even existed seeing as he was illiterate and wrote nothing. However I'll trust Socrates actually lived since he was written about by two witnesses Xenophon and Plato and one satirist, Aristophanes. And of course that is just from the few writings of the ancients that actually survived the Dark Ages, ironically preserved by the goodly Catholic Christian monks of old.
 
Feb 16, 2014
903
2
0
#19
Though I must say Pink Floyd hits the nail on the head.
Hmm, I disagree.

This thread is about the poor education standards we see in public schools, whereas Another Brick In The Wall Part 2 is about teachers bullying children and schools enforcing oppressive regime on students. Even though the song can reference any form of teacher on student bullying, it was written with boarding schools in mind and is clearly referencing boarding schools in the Movie (the clip you posted comes from the movie).

Anyway, I don't believe our schools are necessarily being manipulated to brain wash children into becoming liberals. Let's face it, many students are introduced to Ayn Rand in high school. XD (I've only read Anthem, I plan on reading some of her other books in the future).

My question stems directly from the fact that I haven't, to my knowledge, experienced what might constitute "politically motivated" and subsequently slanted, inaccurate, or otherwise incomplete curriculum (from the perspective of the textbooks or materials themselves, at least). The quality of my classes usually depended on the lesson plans set by the teacher along with the teacher's capacity to efficiently and quickly teach material, as well as the performance of the students. None of my textbooks were, to my judgment, inadequate. Nearly all of the literature I was exposed to in high school was more or less standard, time-tested material along the lines of the Brontë sisters, Shakespeare, Homer, and various anthologies containing relatively run-of-the-mill material. It's certainly true that a small portion of high school literature, especially in reference to AP material late in high school, is mildly to moderately explicit -- but it's certainly not selected on the basis of its explicit nature. It's important to recognize the distinction between literature that offers clearly compelling educational merit and literature with no such merit, as well as the fact that explicit material in a work is legitimately capable of more broadly or accurately defining or supporting the overall philosophy and context of the work in question. A wide array of variables have to be taken into consideration when defining and approving works of literature for schools, and the presence, merit, and ramifications of explicit material are simply one subset of dynamic, contextual variables to consider in this light.
For the most part, I have to agree with this. This has been, for the most part, my experience with high school. I've had some really lousy teachers, as well as some really wonderful teachers. I do have to say one thing though, The Scarlet Letter is the absolute worst book I have ever attempted to read in my life. It should never become a part of ANY teacher's curriculum unless they want to use the book as an example of how to write a completely bland, emotionless, two-dimensional, ill-thought, story. Granted, I've never actually finished the book - so I could be mislabeling the book unfairly.

I had one teacher who sort of broke the rules. He actually let us watch Full Metal Jacket in class! I read a few short poems and was told to read about 3 books in my honors English class, which I was failing. They put me in a different English class that wasn't aimed towards honors students, and I read at least 5 or 6 books and actually found myself enjoying them! Though, I will admit, other students in the class were doing the bare minimum while I was finishing the books before they could get halfway through. The Things They Carried, Catcher In The Rye, The Great Gatsby, some parts of The Jungle, etc...

I could go on and on about some things teachers need to stop doing, as well as things teachers should start doing, but I've rambled off topic enough... er... I guess I was never on topic to begin with. : |

I remember reading about this new math standard that's being used. I forget what it's called, but the math that was being taught in many schools would over complicate simple math problems. I understand what the curriculum was trying to get at, but I found it to fail tremendously as a teaching method.
 
J

JustAnotherUser

Guest
#20
Greek mythology was a reason for me to sleep during English class... Honestly, who cares about it?

I also agree about the teachers as said above. There's some that have the passion to teach but they're so far and wide in between. Many I've encountered were no different than the high school kids themselves and yet they're the ones who stay.