It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

Atwood · May 24, 2014

Where does the word "saved" occur?

It is best to base doctrine upon propositional teaching rather than a story. But as the word declares over and over that we have eternal security and real salvation is a real Savior, the Simon story has to be understood in the context of all that reiterated teaching. It is clear in scripture that sometimes believe refers to factually accepting propositions as true (as demons who believe in God), rather than trusting in God. Neither does the story say "Simon lost salvation" which would be an oxymoron. An unnecessary interpretation of a difficult passage about a historical happening, cannot be proof of some doctrine contrary to the whole tenor of scripture.

"For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."

1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Romans 11:6

But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Romans 8:34
Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Philippians 3:20-21
But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Cassian · May 24, 2014

Atwood said:

I know which is why I don't believe you but I do believe what scripture says. It is very good advice that no one take your word for it. The Spirit convicts me to believe HIS Gospel as He gave it. Not a man devised false doctrine interpreting it.

GrandHoboMaster · May 24, 2014

Hah, Hah, Hah.

You claim from behave of Word of God, that neither monkery nor asketism is pleased and existed in the NT church, then nothing could anybody do, but only to agree with brother Stephen63, that your own church is the Universal church of Satan where all can go to heaven their own way.

English obviously is strange language to me.

Keep going your way Atwood.

Surely, you are saved in scope of your own church.

I must thank you for expirience.

Before meeting with you, I never knew how possesed could be self-sanctified saved protestant sectant.

Atwood · May 24, 2014

Originally Posted by Atwood

The beginning and the end is God's Word. What humans in the Church said later is not God's Word; it is human tradition, which the Lord condemned as a substitute for God's Word. The Word of God is clear enough so that we are responsible. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Cassian said:

Again Cassian, you go on just saying things with no proof.

My statements may or not be valid, depending upon their congruence with God's word. If I say that if you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, you will be saved," that is valid because the Word says, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved."

I don't claim that my words are God's words. Compare it to scripture; mostly look at the scripture and see how the Spirit convicts you.

I gave you sufficient evident, which you are not interacting with. It is like you put blinders on your eyes, and stoppers in your ears. Since satan and the demons are busy, why would we not expect many confusing erroneous interpretations?

Psalm 119 expounds the subject. The Word is clear enough to demand your obedience.

"from a babe thou hast known the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is expired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness: that the man of God may be complete, furnished completely unto every good work." 2 Tim 3.

If it were not clear, how could it be said that Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path?

John 6: For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believeth on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Atwood · May 24, 2014

SeaBass said:

Election and predestination are taught in the NT. Christians disagree on how to understand election and predestination, but they are facts. Can you not accept that matters were decided long ago, regardless of how it plays out in our experience, and we make real decisions?

You don't have to figure these things out to be saved. All you need do is trust the Lord Jesus as your Savior . . . whosoever will. Salvation is in 3 tenses.

Pondering the below helped me come to trust the Lord as my Savior, the potter of the clay.

9 For this is a word of promise, According to this season will I come, and Sarah shall have a son. 10 And not only so; but Rebecca also having conceived by one, even by our father Isaac— 11 for the children being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth, 12 it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13 Even as it is written, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that hath mercy. 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, For this very purpose did I raise thee up, that I might show in thee my power, and that my name might be published abroad in all the earth. 18 So then he hath mercy on whom he will, and whom he will be hardeneth.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he still find fault? For who withstandeth his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why didst thou make me thus? 21 Or hath not the potter a right over the clay, from the same lump to make one part a vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor? 22 What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering vessels of wrath fitted unto destruction: 23 and that he might make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he afore prepared unto glory, 24 even us, whom he also called, not from the Jews only, but also from the Gentiles?

Atwood · May 24, 2014

Originally Posted by Atwood

SeaBass, Calvin is irrelevant; it is the Word of God that is relevant. You may as well accuse anyone who teaches the Trinity to be promoting Calvinism, since Calvin believed in the Trinity.

I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

SeaBass said:

I am glad to see that you are looking at the scripture Seabass.

Where does this verse say anything about free will and choosing to quit believing? No where. You are making things up.
It clearly says that the one who is currently believing knows he has eternal life! He doesn't think that possibly he will attain to eternal life if this or if that. He knows he has eternal life, no ifs and or buts.

----------------------

Paul addresses the Philippians in general. He says the is thankful for their fellowship in the furtherance of gospel. Then he says as quoted, "I am sure of this" namely of their final salvation. There is no statement of contingency as if salvation were by works -- which it is not.

And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

But I commend you for looking at the texts. Let the Word of God dwell in you richly. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God. Read and conclude how you are convicted by the Spirit.

Atwood · May 24, 2014

Originally Posted by Atwood

Read the word carefully Cassian. I don't ask you or anyone to believe something because I say it. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.
How does the Spirit convict you?

John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent mehas eternal life

Cassian said:

Well Cassian, that is a good post. ITA.

Atwood · May 24, 2014

GrandHoboMaster said:

Hobo, if you have never read the Bible the first time, I encourage you to do it. Is there a translation in your language? I didn't say "the early church." I say that the NT never advises one to practice ascetism. It is not surprising that ascetism got going pretty early, contrary to God's will, as ascetism existed in the pagan environment. It is condemned in Col 2.

"If ye died with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, do ye subject yourselves to ordinances, 2Handle not, nor taste, nor touch (all which things are to perish with the using), after the precepts and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a show of wisdom in will-worship, and humility, and severity to the body; but are not of any value against the indulgence of the flesh."

Nobody has his own church. The NT never uses "church" for a denomination. There is and only has ever been one Church, which is the Body of Christ, entered by baptism of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:13). You get in by trusting Christ as Savior only. Persons of many denominations and of no denomination are part of this One Church

I know you would laugh at me trying to write your language, Hobo. You don't do bad, but sometimes it comes to me as humorous.

I deny being a protestant. And I deny being a proponent of any sect.
I recognize all who trust the real Lord Jesus as Savior, as my brothers in the Church, the Body of Christ, even if they are connected to so-called Orthodoxy or the RCC.

What is particularly sad is if a person is an unsaved church member, even in a country where he is persecuted for calling himself a Christian, yet is not born again, and never really trusted Christ as only and sufficient Savior.

the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 6:23)

John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out

He says he will not cast you out if you come to Him (in faith). Can you not take Him at His word?

psalm6819 · May 24, 2014

is it Satanic heresy to deny eternal security? I don't think so. I beleive that the blood of Jesus covers every sin a believer commits. God already knew every sin each of us would commit. The Bible call Jesus "the Lamb sacrificed before the foundation of the world. God is outside of time so there are no "future" sins we will commit. We don't lose our salvation every time we sin because that would make GOD unfaithful to us. He loves us and promises He will NEVER leave us.

feedm3 · May 24, 2014

Atwood said:

In the NT, what do we basically find?

The gospels - written to different audiences but about the same events concerning Christ, John being an exception seeing it is uniqe is some aspects. They teach how the Messiah came to the Jews and how the Jews reacted.

So when we read these passgaes, we hvae to keep in mind the context, who and why these things were being said.

So when we find passages like Jn 3:16, who is it being said to? Jews under the law of Moses, other passages directed at the Pharisees.

So when "believe" is the only thing mentioned for salvation, what does believe mean? Is that in harmony with other passages that give us actions to follow to be saved - Acts 2:38, 22:16, etc.?

If a Jew under the law was to believe Christ is the Messiah, that mean he would do whatever is commanded in order to be saved by his Lord.

Every passages does not have to say "he that believes and obeys" (Heb 5:9, John 3:36-f.) "believed is sufficient because that is what he is trying to get these people to do. Yet the truly believed and followed Him, they would obey. Believing gives us the "power" or the "right" to BECOME the sons of God. This does not happen until we obey what is commanded

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Those who believe suddenly have this "power or right" given by God to "become" a child of God. Yet if chooses not to act upon this believe and obey Him, then he will never become this.

So many passages teach us about salavtion, yet the all must be used together in order to know what we have to do.

For example, if we ONLY use what is in the immediate context, there are several ways to be saved, which will contradict each other:
For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

If we were to ignore other passages about salvation, and the other passages that surround this statement, plus who it is being said to and why - then we could draw the conclusion all one needs to be saved is hope. any kind of hope. as long as it's not seen, and Atheist can be saved.

of course no one would do that.

Then we have Acts - written as a historical account, yet teaches how unsaved Jews, were saved, and Gentiles.
Acts 2 - a chapter in which Peter speaks through the HS and convicts the Jews for and convinces them they killed Christ.

Upon beleving Peter, they asked in verse 37 "what shall we do"? So where they saved at this point? NO.

Acts 2:38 Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

So many arugments for his passage, i know. Yet NONE of them stand. The Greek word eis "for" as "because of" fails in which no one can find one time this word is used in this sense in the Bible.

Some say two groups were presnet here, those saved and those unsaved - Fail as the Greek shows "Repent and be Baptized and Ye shall" is a collective noun, which is always in the plural form, just saying, the coach said to the TEAM drink and be and each of you shall be refreashed" "each of you" singular - Team - Plural. Not groups, but a collective noun. So plural forms follow the collective noun refering to the single group.

So the Jews and in Acts 2:38 were told what to do to be saved after they believed the gospel.

So we get to Romans and other letters, we must keep in mind again, who is being spoken and why? Most letters were to the church. So we understand, these were saved people getting instruction for how they should live.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believe unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

The Context, Jews and Gentiles are the same in God. Do not be fooled by false teachers trying to bind things that were not so. Continue to believe, continue to confess Christ and they would continue to be saved.

Paul is speaking to the same people he was speaking to in chapter 6. So we know these people are already members of the Church. He is not telling them what do to be saved, but to continue doing.

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

He is not talking about a different baptism, they were baptized with the same baptism as the unsaved Jews in Acts 2.

So we can infer these Christians did just as the others who became Christians, and repented and were baptized for the forgivness of their sins.

Same as Paul "why tarriest thou? Arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins calling upon the name of the Lord" - Acts 22:16

Again the same baptism, I say this because so many people want to make all kinds of different baptisms, but the gospel only teaches their is one baptism to be saved, Jew and Gentile, and obviously it would be the one that is FIRST given to the FIRST time we see unsaved people asking WHAT shall we do? There asking what to do to be saved.

If the sinners prayer was the answer, then Acts 2 would have been a perfect time for Peter to have them recite it, yet it was not there, nor anywhere else in scripture.

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

This is what is left, not 3 baptisms - ONE.

Which is it, the baptism of the HS given to excute miraclus to fulfill prophecy and usher the NT? No not needed today.

Or Baptism in water that washes away our sins by the blood of Christ? This is what water is symbolic of.

1Jn 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

So according to all the passages of teh NT, written to different groups, for different reasons, we can harmonize them and understanding the Bible does not contradict itself, we need to:

Believe - John 3:16
Repent - Act 2:38, 3:19
Confess - Rom 10:28
Be baptized- Acts 2:38, 22:16, Rom 6
Live in newness of life - Rom 6:, Heb 5:9, 10:26-f., Gal 5, Matt 24:40-f.

This is keeping scripture in harmony. The way it is meant to be, not picking and choosing what passages we want to live by.

They understood that believing meant follwing the law given by who they believed on.

When beelived on Moses, then they followed the law of Moses.

If they chose to beleive in Christ, then they knew they must follow the law of Christ - Gal 6:2

GrandHoboMaster · May 24, 2014

I know what NT means (New Testament).

Neither monks, nor askets exist in your church, but only whoever agree with your own theory of self-sanctifying salvation. Whosoever rejected communion (the Holy Sacraments) and hierarhy is your brother in Christ.

Whosoever oppose to your theories filled with much quotation, oppose not to your own interpritation of the Holy Scriptures, but itself to the Word of God.

Also you, and your group is not a sect, but the ONLY EXISTING IN NT HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH.

There are no denominations and sects, but whosoever read bible and accept OSAS-teaching from you, could become an already saved body of church right now.

Have I missed any significant point???

The Universal Church of whole the NT now is explained.
There are no monks and hermits inside, but as rightly noticed someone above devils are also members of the church, since they also believe that Jesus is the Lord.

So, farewell Atwood, I wish you to live long life, at least untill restoration of the Holy Roman Inquisition in its action.

Timeline · May 24, 2014

Atwood said:

We are in total agreement in regard to the truth that no one is righteous or saved without grace. And I believe that far too many of us like to think of ourselves as being right and righteous. We can be quick to call our beliefs superior to other peoples beliefs.

Luke 9:46-56
[SUP]46 [/SUP]An argument started among them as to which of them might be the greatest. [SUP]47 [/SUP]But Jesus, knowing what they were thinking in their heart, took a child and stood him by His side, [SUP]48 [/SUP]and said to them, “Whoever receives this child in My name receives Me, and whoever receives Me receives Him who sent Me; for the one who is least among all of you, this is the one who is great.”[SUP]49 [/SUP]John answered and said, “Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name; and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow along with us.” [SUP]50 [/SUP]But Jesus said to him, “Do not hinder him; for he who is not against you is for you.”
[SUP]51 [/SUP]When the days were approaching for His ascension, He was determined to go to Jerusalem; [SUP]52 [/SUP]and He sent messengers on ahead of Him, and they went and entered a village of the Samaritans to make arrangements for Him. [SUP]53 [/SUP]But they did not receive Him, because He was traveling toward Jerusalem. [SUP]54 [/SUP]When His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them?” [SUP]55 [/SUP]But He turned and rebuked them, [and said, “You do not know what kind of spirit you are of;[SUP]56 [/SUP]for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them.”] And they went on to another village.

The bible tells us to be fully convinced of what we believe and that what is not from faith is sin. We should know the bible and understand where are beliefs come from. Many believe what they are told. But we search scripture to test the words of men. It is good for us to discuss our "understandings", but in doing so we should take care not to tear down, but to build.

eternally-gratefull · May 24, 2014

Timeline said:

It goes both ways my friend.

How many are like the pharisees, Who think they are going to heaven because they do all the works. They act like lovers of God. But they have bought into a false gospel of works.

People who do not want to humble themselves are not going to find God no matter what the bible says, They will stand firm and do it their way.

Many, Who believe in OSAS and do not believe in OSAS are going to stand in front of god one day, And not like what God has to tell them.

eternally-gratefull · May 24, 2014

phil112 said:

yet when you and that rapist and baby killer stand in front of God. Niether of you will be worthy of eternal life. God does not see a difference between you and them.

When you understand this, You will finally understand your extreme dir situation. And maybe just maybe finally give it all to God and receive his eternal life.

I know, I know. It hurts to think God looks at you with as much judgment as he does those people you hate, The pharisees did not like it either, Thats why they killed Christ.

eternally-gratefull · May 24, 2014

Alligator said:

Context my friend. This is talking about your physical life being saved if you endure great tribulation.

Has nothing to do with eternal life.

Enduring to the end to be saved eternally would require perfection. Yet again, It would also require up until now you have been sinless perfect.

How well have you done this?

eternally-gratefull · May 24, 2014

SeaBass said:

If can mean three things.

If, and you will.

If Maybe you will maybe you will not''and if, if you could but you can't. ,

If you can't get this right, there is no need discussing anything else.

eternally-gratefull · May 24, 2014

SeaBass said:

It spoke of people who came to Christ in faith, and because of their faith were saved. And as per eph 1 were sealed with the Holy Spirit of Promise, who is the guarantee of their eternal life.

Nice try.

phil112 · May 24, 2014

eternally-gratefull said:

NOW you are making a judgement reserved for Christ. You have crossed a very dangerous line with such a statement. Only God knows my heart. You can only judge the outward man. For you to make a decision on where one spends eternity is to usurp Christ's authority.

Such a statement puts you in a very bad place.

phil112 · May 24, 2014

eternally-gratefull said:

You know nothing. You, sir, are ignorant. I hate no one. I am no mans enemy. The vitriol you have spewed at me with this post deserves attention. Take your lies about me elsewhere.

Larry_Stotle · May 24, 2014

Mosas takes another punch to the head, Osas takes another punch to the head.

Both are staggering around like drunks....this could take awhile folks.

It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

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