It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security
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Would it not be amazing if some man who is regarded in history as among the most vile, should turn up in Heaven because that wicked man trusted the Lord Jesus as His Savior right before He died, like the thief on the cross.
Manasseh was a very wicked king of Judah, yet he repented (had a change of mind) and was apparently saved.
Then imagine some Pharisaical person, who would not admit his depravity and insisted how he would be saved by his righteous good works, then finds out at the judgment how he is going to the Lake of Fire, but the vile sinner who cried out, "God be merciful to me a sinner," trusting the Lord Jesus and His atonement, went to Heaven. Chagrin time.
Manasseh was a very wicked king of Judah, yet he repented (had a change of mind) and was apparently saved.
Then imagine some Pharisaical person, who would not admit his depravity and insisted how he would be saved by his righteous good works, then finds out at the judgment how he is going to the Lake of Fire, but the vile sinner who cried out, "God be merciful to me a sinner," trusting the Lord Jesus and His atonement, went to Heaven. Chagrin time.
Kerry, eternal security is believing God's word how eternal life is God's free gift to those who confess how vile they are and trust the Lord Jesus as their SAvior. Rom 5 tells us what makes us bad or good. Our membership in Adam makes us bad; a membership in the Lord Jesus makes us good. The Lord Jesus paid for all our sins on the cross.
He offers the sinner transformation and eternal life as salvation. He does not offer a man validation of his works. All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags.
God commends His own love for us, in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. (Rom 5).
He died on our behalf and instead of us doing the Lake of Fire.
We must trust Him to make us good; we look to Him and the Holy Spirit for the production of good fruit (Gal 5).
Eternal security is taking the Lord at His word.
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
He offers the sinner transformation and eternal life as salvation. He does not offer a man validation of his works. All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags.
God commends His own love for us, in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. (Rom 5).
He died on our behalf and instead of us doing the Lake of Fire.
We must trust Him to make us good; we look to Him and the Holy Spirit for the production of good fruit (Gal 5).
Eternal security is taking the Lord at His word.
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Seabass, I think we agree that Hebrews 6 speaks of a real possibility; indeed professing Christians fall away and some may be so hard that they can never repent (have a change of mind).
But 6:9 explains the preceding, that the author has been describing a condition of unregenerate persons short of salvation, persons like Judas:
Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Messiah [as under the Old Testament Judaism] Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of instruction about washings, and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. [OT Teaching] And this we shall do, if God permits. For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of [not swallowed] the heavenly gift and have been made companions of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [like Judas; see Mat 10] and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame. For ground that drinks the rain which often falls upon it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned. 9 But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way.
But 6:9 explains the preceding, that the author has been describing a condition of unregenerate persons short of salvation, persons like Judas:
Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Messiah [as under the Old Testament Judaism] Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of instruction about washings, and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. [OT Teaching] And this we shall do, if God permits. For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of [not swallowed] the heavenly gift and have been made companions of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [like Judas; see Mat 10] and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame. For ground that drinks the rain which often falls upon it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned. 9 But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way.
Atwood, do not bother me, please, with intruding of your false doctrin.
I expressed it several times (calling you false-teacher), that you should teach yourself first.
Nothing Jesus has promised personally to you. And nothing have you got from Him. Please, do not touch the verses. They speak not about you (neither about your friends sharing the OSAS illussion). The verses speak from behave of true members of true church of Lord, established by Lord, and inspired by the Holy Spirit.
Your radiculous self-confidence (that your are members of only true church) to which you are placing the verses to be acting upon yourself is purely spiritual Cargo Cult case.
With one significant differents. The papua-tribes who simulated military activities in hope and expectation to get landed aircrafts with Cargo, realised that they got nothing.
While you all also had got nothing (neither gifts of Holy Spirit, nor house of the Father and Son dwelling in you) but you try to claim inspirtions of the evil spirits (who established your illussive views) to be The Heavenly Cargo, of spiritual abiding in Christ.
Atwood, you just ensnared by evil spirits. You have got nothing from true Holy Spirit of God. And you are just abiding not in Jesus, but in selfdeceiptfull enticement.
The verses, you quote, speaks not about you, but about the real saints of the real Holy Church.
I expressed it several times (calling you false-teacher), that you should teach yourself first.
Nothing Jesus has promised personally to you. And nothing have you got from Him. Please, do not touch the verses. They speak not about you (neither about your friends sharing the OSAS illussion). The verses speak from behave of true members of true church of Lord, established by Lord, and inspired by the Holy Spirit.
Your radiculous self-confidence (that your are members of only true church) to which you are placing the verses to be acting upon yourself is purely spiritual Cargo Cult case.
With one significant differents. The papua-tribes who simulated military activities in hope and expectation to get landed aircrafts with Cargo, realised that they got nothing.
While you all also had got nothing (neither gifts of Holy Spirit, nor house of the Father and Son dwelling in you) but you try to claim inspirtions of the evil spirits (who established your illussive views) to be The Heavenly Cargo, of spiritual abiding in Christ.
Atwood, you just ensnared by evil spirits. You have got nothing from true Holy Spirit of God. And you are just abiding not in Jesus, but in selfdeceiptfull enticement.
The verses, you quote, speaks not about you, but about the real saints of the real Holy Church.
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Feel free to change this scripture to suit your doctrine because we know where liars go
1John 2 NIV
[SUP]3 [/SUP]We know[SUP](E)[/SUP] that we have come to know him[SUP](F)[/SUP] if we keep his commands.[SUP](G)[/SUP] [SUP]4 [/SUP]Whoever says, “I know him,”[SUP](H)[/SUP] but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person.[SUP](I)[/SUP] [SUP]5 [/SUP]But if anyone obeys his word,[SUP](J)[/SUP] love for God[SUP][a][/SUP] is truly made complete in them.[SUP](K)[/SUP] This is how we know[SUP](L)[/SUP] we are in him: [SUP]6 [/SUP]Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.[SUP](M)[/SUP]
KJV
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
1John 2 NIV
[SUP]3 [/SUP]We know[SUP](E)[/SUP] that we have come to know him[SUP](F)[/SUP] if we keep his commands.[SUP](G)[/SUP] [SUP]4 [/SUP]Whoever says, “I know him,”[SUP](H)[/SUP] but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person.[SUP](I)[/SUP] [SUP]5 [/SUP]But if anyone obeys his word,[SUP](J)[/SUP] love for God[SUP][a][/SUP] is truly made complete in them.[SUP](K)[/SUP] This is how we know[SUP](L)[/SUP] we are in him: [SUP]6 [/SUP]Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.[SUP](M)[/SUP]
KJV
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
Well, Hobo, it is late at night here. I am out of gas (British, "I am out of petrol").
I don't know how the Papuas got into this.
How about some Samoans?
I'll have at you again after I get some sleep.
Meanwhile, May the Lord bless you in every way.
Good Night,
Sleep Tight;
Don't let the bed bugs bit.
I don't know how the Papuas got into this.
How about some Samoans?
I'll have at you again after I get some sleep.
Meanwhile, May the Lord bless you in every way.
Good Night,
Sleep Tight;
Don't let the bed bugs bit.
The Lord does not cast away His children.
"And every man that striveth in the games exerciseth self-control in all things. Now they do it to receive a corruptible crown [actually, "victor's wreath]; but we an incorruptible. I therefore so run, as not uncertainly; so fight I, as not beating the air: but I buffet my body, and bring it into bondage: lest by any means, after that I have preached to others, I myself should be disqualified [not "castway"]." - 1 Cor 9
"Crown" indicates reward (one of 5 crown rewards in NT). Discipleship costs everything. Rewards are earned by works. But salvation is not by works; it is the free gift of God.
"the free gift of God is eternal life."
This passage is about rewards, not about salvation, and "castaway" is a wrong translation, at least in modern English -- who knows what the KJV meant by it.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
"And every man that striveth in the games exerciseth self-control in all things. Now they do it to receive a corruptible crown [actually, "victor's wreath]; but we an incorruptible. I therefore so run, as not uncertainly; so fight I, as not beating the air: but I buffet my body, and bring it into bondage: lest by any means, after that I have preached to others, I myself should be disqualified [not "castway"]." - 1 Cor 9
"Crown" indicates reward (one of 5 crown rewards in NT). Discipleship costs everything. Rewards are earned by works. But salvation is not by works; it is the free gift of God.
"the free gift of God is eternal life."
This passage is about rewards, not about salvation, and "castaway" is a wrong translation, at least in modern English -- who knows what the KJV meant by it.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
The NIV is off the beam on this one:
And hereby we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; but whoso keepeth his word, in him verily hath the love of God been perfected. Hereby we know that we are in him: he that saith he abideth in him ought himself also to walk even as he walked.
You don't walk as He walked, and neither does anyone else. He was perfect (and also commanded men to be perfect -- which they never are). Still the standard is the perfection of Christ.
The text says nothing about how to become a child of God or be saved. It is about assurance of salvation and knowing that you have come to know Him; good works must follow faith, which alone saves, but cannot be "alone."
Romans 11:6
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
Romans 8:34
Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
Hebrews 10:14
For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Hobo, what is your proof of that? Do you suppose that anyone will believe you for just saying it?
I have got everything from the Lord Jesus and the Father. "He who spared not His own son but DELIVERED HIM UP FOR US ALL, how shall He not also with Him freely give us all things?" Rom 8
I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which He has committed to HIm against that day.
I have eternal life, for God promises it to WHOSOEVER believes. I believe, I trust in the precious Son of God, who died for me on the cross and paid for all my sins. I am not so stupid or hard of heart to disbelieve the Lord when He says that eternal life is His free gift to whosoever trusts the Lord Jesus.
Now when will you trust Him, and stop playing religion?
You go on and on Hobo, saying things, but proving nothing from God's word. You make up things. My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus' blood and righteousness. It is a sin to not believe God's promises and trust the Savior -- it is also profoundly stupid.
The Lord Jesus Christ is God, 2nd person of the Trinity, God become man; He has come in the flesh!
Whosoever includes me. It does not include the whosoever won'ts. Are you a whosoever won't?
WHOSOEVER!
John 4:14
But whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.
John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
I have got everything from the Lord Jesus and the Father. "He who spared not His own son but DELIVERED HIM UP FOR US ALL, how shall He not also with Him freely give us all things?" Rom 8
I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which He has committed to HIm against that day.
I have eternal life, for God promises it to WHOSOEVER believes. I believe, I trust in the precious Son of God, who died for me on the cross and paid for all my sins. I am not so stupid or hard of heart to disbelieve the Lord when He says that eternal life is His free gift to whosoever trusts the Lord Jesus.
Now when will you trust Him, and stop playing religion?
You go on and on Hobo, saying things, but proving nothing from God's word. You make up things. My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus' blood and righteousness. It is a sin to not believe God's promises and trust the Savior -- it is also profoundly stupid.
The Lord Jesus Christ is God, 2nd person of the Trinity, God become man; He has come in the flesh!
Whosoever includes me. It does not include the whosoever won'ts. Are you a whosoever won't?
WHOSOEVER!
John 4:14
But whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.
John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Faith is the only condition of salvation, not doing obedience works, though to trust Christ as Savior is an obedience. Are you really unaware of all the times the NT denies that salvation is by works? Eph 2, etc.
1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Dear, dear Hobo,
Do you realize how you just are saying things -- no Bible proof. So it goes nowhere.
Eternal security comes from trusting the Lord Jesus to get solve your sin problems and get you to Heaven. You are not called to trust to your eternal security, but to trust in your eternal Savior, who has promised to take care of your sin problem and bring you to Heaven.
Ask Him to save you today, and believe in Him as your Savior.
Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
Do you realize how you just are saying things -- no Bible proof. So it goes nowhere.
Eternal security comes from trusting the Lord Jesus to get solve your sin problems and get you to Heaven. You are not called to trust to your eternal security, but to trust in your eternal Savior, who has promised to take care of your sin problem and bring you to Heaven.
Ask Him to save you today, and believe in Him as your Savior.
Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
What to do, what to believe. Here we have some who quote scripture that God will never let go of us, and yet we have others who quote scriptures about those who once believed but have fallen away. My oh my how do we balance these seemingly contradictory scriptures (without bashing each other)?
By realizing that they do not contradict. They speak of two different things - things that we do, and things that God does.
What do we do? We come to God and place ourselves in His loving hands. That's our first act.
What does God do? Having received us into His hands, He holds onto us forever, never letting us go.
What do we do then? We can stand fast in faith and remain in His hands, or we can climb out and walk away. Our walking away is totally different from Him letting go of us. Falling away is our action, not His.
God does not take - or keep - prisoners. He wants us to love Him out of our own free will. By our will we can come to Him and be held there forever, or by our will we can walk away, out of His hands. That is something we do, not God.
God will never turn us away, He will keep us forever - as long as we want to be kept. But we can turn away on our own.
That is how He is able to keep us, yet we are able to fall away.
By realizing that they do not contradict. They speak of two different things - things that we do, and things that God does.
What do we do? We come to God and place ourselves in His loving hands. That's our first act.
What does God do? Having received us into His hands, He holds onto us forever, never letting us go.
What do we do then? We can stand fast in faith and remain in His hands, or we can climb out and walk away. Our walking away is totally different from Him letting go of us. Falling away is our action, not His.
God does not take - or keep - prisoners. He wants us to love Him out of our own free will. By our will we can come to Him and be held there forever, or by our will we can walk away, out of His hands. That is something we do, not God.
God will never turn us away, He will keep us forever - as long as we want to be kept. But we can turn away on our own.
That is how He is able to keep us, yet we are able to fall away.
F
Hello Atwood,
have you considered, If faith saves ALONE then why can it not be alone? If anything is needed to follow, then whatever is supposed to follow is what is qualifying the faith to be Genuine. Therefore it does not save alone. It MUST have the qualifier.
The context here is about the works of under the law of Moses. This really isn't addressing anything other than the Grace of God is only given through Christ, not Moses.
We must keep in mind the context, and also terms. "works" as in deeds (the word used in Eph 2" do not save us.
Obedience(used in Luke 17:10 different word from "ergon" in Eph 2" mean something you "owe" a "debt".
So we owe it to God to obey. As I have said, obedience is not a good deed, it is a duty. A way of life.
Even after one obeys God, like those in Matt 24 who "did" the things required for them to have eternal life as opposed to those who "did not" do what they were supposed to. The reward still does not make them deserving of the salvation given. Yet without this obedience, we can be deserving of punishment.
Grace is a free gift from God. It was undeserved. Obviously it is not a "free gift" in the sense nothing is to be done to have God's grace effect you, or it would NOT be possible to "fall away" from it, or to receive it "in vain" - Gal 5, I Cor 6:1.
If it was totally free in the sense of who receives, then no one would be have the danger of hell, as it says Grace was given unto ALL
Yet ALL will not have it, because ALL will DO what is required. Again obedience - Heb 5:9
If I tell someone I am giving you a car. You dont not have pay me for it just come get it and use it correctly and it's yours. If they refuse to come, was it still not free? or was the fact that I said "come get it" make the car less of a gift?
We are sealed with the Promise. Yet it is conditional upon us walking in the light. Who can tear us away from God if we are living in the light? No one, man or Satan, that is our promise and our security. Walk in light.
Which is why John is careful to say "IF" we are walking in the light then the blood of Christ is "cleansing" (continuing to cleanse us) of all sin.
Implication: if we are NOT in the light, His blood is NOT cleansing us.
Exactly what is meant in Gal and heb, when it is stated "Christ has BECOME of no effect to you" and "their REMAINS no more sacrifice for sin" for those who are in willful sin.
Because by doing this, we walk away from the security, from the promised seal that can secure us until the day of redemption.
Yes for ALL TIME, from then when he stated that, until the modern day, those who come to Christ can be sanctified.
"perfected" is from Greek word telios, which means to fulfill, to complete, the idea of putting the last peice to a puzzle.
What is being said here is not, that once sanctified we as individuals are perfect for all time. It is speaking of Christ fulfilling his mission which brings salvation for ALL TIME.
in other words, his sacrifice is not going to wear off, and in the future another savior would be needed. ONE sacrifice sufficient for all time past, present future.
Again, Paul is making the case, grace is not deserved by anyone because of some deeds they did. It is a undeserved gift.
He is saying the same message God was telling israel when he gave them land:
Deu 9:4 Speak not thou in thine heart, after that the LORD thy God hath cast them out from before thee, saying, For my righteousness the LORD hath brought me in to possess this land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD doth drive them out from before thee.
Deu 9:5 Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Deu 9:6 Understand therefore, that the LORD thy God giveth thee not this good land to possess it for thy righteousness; for thou art a stiffnecked people.
God making it clear, nothing they did was the reason for this land. They did not deserve it in any way whatsoever. In no way did this mean they did not have to obey God, just because the land was given to them underserving. Which is proved when they disobey God and he takes the land from them. Remember the OT is a "shadow of things to come".
Same message to the Eph. Paul want to be clear, NOTHING they did was deserving of God's grace. It was freely given, undeserved, not of any works the Eph did, not of any righteousness on their part, if it was they could boast "look at what we did, were so righteous God has given grace unto all men" - noone can say this.
Again, this message is not telling the EPH anything but they like the rest of us, are undeserving of God's grace.
Take Care
Atwood, you invented that false teaching relatively in recent period. While Holy Church exists during almost two milleniums.
Again. Do not please take to yourselves the verses adressed to members of Holy Church.
For you are not a part of church. Your ancestors fell aside finaly from the Church exactly when their rejected the Holy Sacraments, established in apostolic times by Jesus Himself and by Holy Spirit.
As I pointed already, your various (meaning different prctices of protestant sects) new-invented teachings and doctrines is just imitations of spiritual life.
Like Samoa aboriginals, had tried to get Cargo, by imitation of US army actions.
Likewise, you with your various false doctines are trying to imitate Holy Church outside of which your fathers placed themselves by own will.
In your mere imitating you are trying to quote Scriptures and to find whatsoever proofs of your theories in Holy Testaments.
But all the verses you quote tell as about members of Church who are abiding in Jesus generation by generation through the Holy Sacraments.
Keep going your false ideas along with the varios pseudo-proofs of your salvation before judgement of Jesus.
Likewise wild savages were anable to get the Cargo without aircrafts manufactured outside of the field of their knowledge.
Same way (without the Sacraments which you reject = do not like to know) you never came to becoming a living houses for the Father and the Son.
So, saved already during the earthly life, only them upon whom the words of Jesus came true John 14:23. - Again it is said about members of the Holy Church (who keeping true doctrin and teaching). And not about false teachears and followers of false teachings (so do not try to put the words upon yourselves).
Again. Do not please take to yourselves the verses adressed to members of Holy Church.
For you are not a part of church. Your ancestors fell aside finaly from the Church exactly when their rejected the Holy Sacraments, established in apostolic times by Jesus Himself and by Holy Spirit.
As I pointed already, your various (meaning different prctices of protestant sects) new-invented teachings and doctrines is just imitations of spiritual life.
Like Samoa aboriginals, had tried to get Cargo, by imitation of US army actions.
Likewise, you with your various false doctines are trying to imitate Holy Church outside of which your fathers placed themselves by own will.
In your mere imitating you are trying to quote Scriptures and to find whatsoever proofs of your theories in Holy Testaments.
But all the verses you quote tell as about members of Church who are abiding in Jesus generation by generation through the Holy Sacraments.
Keep going your false ideas along with the varios pseudo-proofs of your salvation before judgement of Jesus.
Likewise wild savages were anable to get the Cargo without aircrafts manufactured outside of the field of their knowledge.
Same way (without the Sacraments which you reject = do not like to know) you never came to becoming a living houses for the Father and the Son.
So, saved already during the earthly life, only them upon whom the words of Jesus came true John 14:23. - Again it is said about members of the Holy Church (who keeping true doctrin and teaching). And not about false teachears and followers of false teachings (so do not try to put the words upon yourselves).
Yes indeed, but not only does it say that God does not let us go, also it says that we shall NEVER perish!
Ricky, you are making things up, as what you say is not in God's Word. God's word says we have eternal life. One can fall away from grace; you can hear it and be near it -- then reject and go away, by not trusting in Christ. Yes you can go on in self-righteousness and sin, trying to get validation of your sorry works, which are filthy rags, and never letting grace be effective to salvation.
The attitude your post projects is that you don't believe that Jesus is the Savior, neither do you believe in salvation. You believe in getting a chance to be saved unless you do thus and so.
There is no way to stop being a member of your family. Once you are a child of God, you are ever a child of God. You may get out of fellowship and need to be chastised. But the Word is clear, it is that the believers does not perish & has everlasting life.
Never Perish!
We are not called to have faith in our commitment to Christ, but to trust the Lord Jesus, who paid for our sins. You speak of "we," but are you among those who trust the Lord Jesus to get you to Heaven, or are you trusting in yourself? Are you a "we"?
"Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Nothing the Christian or anyone else does in the present or future can separate the Christian from the special love of God in Christ Jesus.
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."
2 thes 2:16-17
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
Rom 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
Forget all your made-up objections,
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you SHALL BE saved.
Ricky, you are making things up, as what you say is not in God's Word. God's word says we have eternal life. One can fall away from grace; you can hear it and be near it -- then reject and go away, by not trusting in Christ. Yes you can go on in self-righteousness and sin, trying to get validation of your sorry works, which are filthy rags, and never letting grace be effective to salvation.
The attitude your post projects is that you don't believe that Jesus is the Savior, neither do you believe in salvation. You believe in getting a chance to be saved unless you do thus and so.
There is no way to stop being a member of your family. Once you are a child of God, you are ever a child of God. You may get out of fellowship and need to be chastised. But the Word is clear, it is that the believers does not perish & has everlasting life.
Never Perish!
We are not called to have faith in our commitment to Christ, but to trust the Lord Jesus, who paid for our sins. You speak of "we," but are you among those who trust the Lord Jesus to get you to Heaven, or are you trusting in yourself? Are you a "we"?
"Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Nothing the Christian or anyone else does in the present or future can separate the Christian from the special love of God in Christ Jesus.
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."
2 thes 2:16-17
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
Rom 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
Forget all your made-up objections,
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you SHALL BE saved.