It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[homwardbound]

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

So that would be to love all as God does in 1 Cor 13:4-13, and until one sees they can't do this type of love and cry out for it, the Mercy one does not get it and do it until received from God to do it and give God all the credit for it
So I found this out, I could not even come close to God's type of love until:

1 John 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

 

[homwardbound]

I dont know what you mean by eternal security.

The satanic heresy is saying the eternally lazy and disobedient and uncaring selfish people think they are going to heaven when they are not.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that licve selfishly and refuse to keep the commandments.

Therefore bottom line either one believes or they do not, and that will be revealed on the day of Judgment, and so can we rest now in the new life i Spirit and truth, and enter his Courts with thanksgiving and praise?
or keep stressing out and try to receive what Father gives one through Son's resurrected life? when Fathyer has it as free for one if one will beleive Father through Son

 

[homwardbound]

Say a few words and your going to heaven?
Silly women

I believe, and God is Faithful to carry on the good work God started, so do you beleive God or not in this

Romans 4:4-5 But didn’t he earn his right to heaven by all the good things he did? No, for being saved is a gift; if a person could earn it by being good, then it wouldn’t be free—but it is! It is given to those who do not work for it. For God declares sinners to be good in his sight if they have faith in Christ to save them from God’s wrath.
Romans 12:16 Work happily together. Don’t try to act big. Don’t try to get into the good graces of important people, but enjoy the company of ordinary folks. And don’t think you know it all!
Romans 16:18 Such teachers are not working for our Lord Jesus but only want gain for themselves. They are good speakers, and simple-minded people are often fooled by them.

1 Corinthians 4:5 So be careful not to jump to conclusions before the Lord returns as to whether someone is a good servant or not. When the Lord comes, he will turn on the light so that everyone can see exactly what each one of us is really like, deep down in our hearts. Then everyone will know why we have been doing the Lord’s work. At that time God will give to each one whatever praise is coming to him.

 

[Atwood]

Originally Posted by Atwood

Greetings Alligator.
It certainly is well to look closely at scripture.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.


"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:"

This statement addresses persons who are already born again saved persons. They don't get saved by following Christ. But the fact is stated that believers follow Christ. There is nothing about how to become a sheep here.
"and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. "

Then the statement is made that Christ is giving (present tense) the believers eternal life. He has ordained that the sheep shall never perish! The sheep are safe in the omnipotent had of the Lord (figure of speech).

There are no conditions given here whatsoever for becoming a sheep, neither is that topic addressed here. It should be noted that "sheep" is a general term for Christians, not some special segment of them.

The text says that NO ONE shall snatch them out; No one includes the sheep themselves. Moreover, without regard to some "snatch theory," the text says "they shall never perish." And that means they cannot make themselves perish.

Best wishes.
May you find rest in the Crucified-Risen omnipotent Savior.

The purpose of my bringing this scripture up had nothing to do with how to become a sheep. It was to show the fallacy of eternal security. I disagree that this passage covers those who choose themselves to stop following Christ.

The passage covers all sheep and asserts that they never perish, and no one (not even themselves) can snatch them out of God's hands, a figure of speech. They shall never perish! if they are sheep. Becoming a sheep is means becoming saved. The salvation includes security in God's hands.

Gal.5:4;II Tim.4:1; Heb. 10:26-27; Heb. 6:4-6; II Pet.2:20-21; Heb. 3:12-14; Jas. 5 19-20; Col. 1:22-23; among others shows that a Christian can so conduct himself as to finally be lost if he does not repent.

No, those passages do not say that at ll.

In first John I:7-9, we are told that Jesus blood Cleanses us from all sin as long as we walk in the light. That is conditional.

What you have done is to commit the fallacy of denying an antecedent, which has been defined as follows:

Denying the antecedent, or the fallacy of the inverse, is a formal fallacy wherein the inverse is inferred from the if statement. The error is claiming to reason like this:
If A, then B.Not A, therefore, not B..Su arguments are invalid nonsense.

It is like saying, "If Joe takes a bus, he will get home." Then arguing that if Joe takes a taxi, he will not get home.


And this is the message which we have heard from him and announce unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another.
And the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

Also, the statement "And the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin"
may be independent of the if clause.

Moreover, the passage does not say anything about attaining or keeping eternal life.

I defy you to quote any verse that ever says that a Christian can be finally lost. You may try to infer this or that, but the scripture is abundantly clear. And I challenge you to trust the Lord Jesus as your only and sufficient Savior. You cannot save yourself by abstaining from sin or getting all your sins confessed before you die. Have you not sinned many times in many ways, and if fact forgotten most of your unconfessed sins? Do you appreciate how depraved men are? There is none that does good, no not one. All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags.

"they shall never perish."

 

[newbirth]

I believe, and God is Faithful to carry on the good work God started, so do you beleive God or not in this

Romans 4:4-5 But didn’t he earn his right to heaven by all the good things he did? No, for being saved is a gift; if a person could earn it by being good, then it wouldn’t be free—but it is! It is given to those who do not work for it. For God declares sinners to be good in his sight if they have faith in Christ to save them from God’s wrath.
Romans 12:16 Work happily together. Don’t try to act big. Don’t try to get into the good graces of important people, but enjoy the company of ordinary folks. And don’t think you know it all!
Romans 16:18 Such teachers are not working for our Lord Jesus but only want gain for themselves. They are good speakers, and simple-minded people are often fooled by them.

1 Corinthians 4:5 So be careful not to jump to conclusions before the Lord returns as to whether someone is a good servant or not. When the Lord comes, he will turn on the light so that everyone can see exactly what each one of us is really like, deep down in our hearts. Then everyone will know why we have been doing the Lord’s work. At that time God will give to each one whatever praise is coming to him.

a simple search for good work in the living bible only adds to confusion when you fail to see...So be careful not to jump to conclusions before the Lord returns as to whether someone is a good servant or not.. servant being the keyword ...find out what it means

 

[newbirth]

So that would be to love all as God does in 1 Cor 13:4-13, and until one sees they can't do this type of love and cry out for it, the Mercy one does not get it and do it until received from God to do it and give God all the credit for it
So I found this out, I could not even come close to God's type of love until:

1 John 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Do you believe this is possible can you do this, have you obtained " like precious faith with us "
This is how Father teaches us to love through Son true of false if not follow his words then sure to fall,maybe blind or forgotten past sins was purged as scripture say.
[h=3]2 Peter 1[/h]King James Version (KJV)

1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

[SUP]2 [/SUP]Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
[SUP]3 [/SUP]According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

[SUP]6 [/SUP]And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

[SUP]7 [/SUP]And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

[SUP]8[/SUP]For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

 

[newbirth]

Yes its satanic heresy to deny eternal security, its an attack on God. In fact those Christ died for were Eternally Secure while they were unbelievers and hating God !

[SUP]19 [/SUP]I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

[SUP]20 [/SUP]Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
[SUP]22[/SUP]Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

 

[Alligator]

The purpose of my bringing this scripture up had nothing to do with how to become a sheep. It was to show the fallacy of eternal security. I disagree that this passage covers those who choose themselves to stop following Christ.
Gal.5:4;II Tim.4:1; Heb. 10:26-27; Heb. 6:4-6; II Pet.2:20-21; Heb. 3:12-14; Jas. 5 19-20; Col. 1:22-23; among others shows that a Christian can so conduct himself as to finally be lost if he does not repent. In first John I:7-9, we are told that Jesus blood Cleanses us from all sin as long as we walk in the light. That is conditional.

The passage covers all sheep and asserts that they never perish, and no one (not even themselves) can snatch them out of God's hands, a figure of speech. They shall never perish! if they are sheep. Becoming a sheep is means becoming saved. The salvation includes security in God's hands.



QUOTE=Atwood;No, those passages do not say that at ll.

you have got to be kidding. Have you ever studied any of those 8 passages I gave you? Let me ask it this way, have you ever studied those scriptures with an open mind instead of studying them to,make them fit your doctrine ?

Denying the antecedent, or the fallacy of the inverse, is a formal fallacy wherein the inverse is inferred from the if statement. The error is claiming to reason like this:

If A, then B.Not A, therefore, not B..Su arguments are invalid nonsense..

Then you come up with this "denying the antecedent" mumbo-jumbo. I don't think that is going to win too many people to your way[/quote]

[Atwood; I defy you to quote any verse that ever says that a Christian can be finally lost. You may try to infer this or that, but the scripture [/QUOTE]

And I defy you to find one scripture that says no matter what a Christian does and no matter how wicked he becomes, he cannot fall from grace..

 

[svedbygrace]

[SUP]19 [/SUP]I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

[SUP]20 [/SUP]Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
[SUP]22[/SUP]Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Do you deny God's Power to keep safe His Saints ? Yes or No ? And what is your purpose in quoting those scriptures ? Please explain !

 

[SeaBass]

If a Christian sins, does his sinning prove he was never really saved to begin with?

 

[SeaBass]

Do you deny God's Power to keep safe His Saints ? Yes or No ? And what is your purpose in quoting those scriptures ? Please explain !

1 Pet 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

They are kept through faith, not kept unconditionally so if one casts aside his faith he will become lost.

 

[SeaBass]

Another twist in words works

He died once for all and by this we are forgiven a done deal, since no not one can be perfect in and of themselves ever, Shown well in the first Testament, all the way to this very day, not one can be perfect with or without Law.
Hebrews 7:11-12

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]11 [/SUP]If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? [SUP]12 [/SUP]For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

The new law is the Law of love (liberty) in Christ alone unto Father delivered to Father as perfect, no other way for Father to recieve us except to be seen as perfect. So in Christ this is done

One choice left to beleive or not. Your free choice, so do you or do you not, by having to have works to prove you, to others?
I need none to prove anything, I the I that is dead to flesh nature is alive to God and does as is right in participation with God, in Spirit and truth alone, being used by God in this dead flesh nature held alive by God to do as God desires not as man desires.

You posted: (blue)

Yes, you said it, that is truth. That is not finalizing the cross, that by Christ we are forgiven, made whole, and until one accepts this fact and stops asking for more forgiveness when they sin, and sees what Christ did, gets to possibly see the new life in Spirit and truth, and walk in it, depending on one's motive to know this truth,


So what do you mean by "...until one accepts this fact and stops asking for more forgiveness when they sin.."

 

[SeaBass]

Start at Heb. 5:11 maybe, and only you and i can decide if we need to be taught all over again. Ask for the whole meat of the word. And God will if God permits and I know if God does not permit this then
I trust God and need no reason why God has not yet or if God ever will, depending on one's motive is why I had those blinders on me, before, then I changed my motive to want nothing more that to be in God's arms safe and secure, and have no motives of selfishness a contrite heart. That is what started in me to start to see and trust God to lead to show me truth thyat has set me free in God. Thank you Jesus

Heb 6:4,5 proves that the Hebrew writer is talking about Christians, "if they (Christians) shall fall away, to renew them again..."

 

[SeaBass]

So is God unfair? since we all are born after the similitude of Adam and Eve? He did go to the cross for all or he did not? If God did not then God is not fair to all? And if god diod go to the cross for all, that does not make all saved. Since death can't save can it?
What saves then after the death? The resurrected Christ in Spirit and truth. nothing else

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

Unfair? I was not talking about "fairness" but was speaking to the fact that somethings in the bible are in past tense even though it has not occurred based upon the certainty of God's promises.

 

[SeaBass]

I did, not on harlots, on gambling and the sort, still did what could for others as could, and God never let me go, this is what i turned around to and said how, why, I deserve to die
And he said Howard I (God) just love you. That has effected me ever since and I walked away from the ignorance I was caught up in
Go figure it is the kindness of God that teaches a man to say no to unrighteousness

1 Cor 6;9,10 those that spend money on harlots, as the prodigal, shall not inherit the kingdom of God...no exceptions.

 

[svedbygrace]

Heb 6:4,5 proves that the Hebrew writer is talking about Christians, "if they (Christians) shall fall away, to renew them again..."

No it does not prove that, He speaks of Christians when he writes of Heb 6:9

9 But, beloved[a Believer], we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

So he knows the saved cannot fall away because they are saved with Salvation of God !

 

[SeaBass]

Please, I think we all,want life, what is this preserved group you are so special in? I want to join, I want life since you are in charge to say who has life and who does not?

I am being rhetorical here friend, how can this be, when he went to the cross for all? How can one body of acclaimed believers be better than another?

You are posting on a forum called "ChristianChat" and do not know who this "preserved group" is that I am speaking about?

 

[SeaBass]

Works are nothing more than the after effect in one being saved by Faith in Christ, nothing more, and yes proves that one's Faith is real, a tree is always identified by its fruit

Now when you did me good, knowing I can't repay you for that good. With that type of motive,that fruit is identified as pure from God. For that type of action is from God doing it without any expectation in return. If have the expectation it will eventually show up, and the others you helped will see why you helped for a return and they will spew out at you in disgust, thinking you did what you did in love, when you did as the man in Luke 16 did
This is not about you in particular just to be clear. We all know who we are, do we not? I have been guilty and pray not to ever be that again, and so i trust god to keep me aware, wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove. i pray this as wel, for you and all who beleive and all that come to belief here today, thank you Jesus
Luke 16 a good read in unrighteous mammon

No one will be saved workless. Sitting and doing nothing will save no one.

 

[SeaBass]

God showed us all that in the first Chosen, they could not be perfect ever in and of themselves. now if anyone could, t5hen Christ came in vain to redeem us.
So as Joey would say in "Friends" "how you dong" I am not I am in need 24/7, whether I sin or not

I have not argued one must be perfectly sinless, but have said one must be in and remain in the "preserved group" called CHRISTIAN to be saved.

 

[svedbygrace]

1 Cor 6;9,10 those that spend money on harlots, as the prodigal, shall not inherit the kingdom of God...no exceptions.

If Christ died for them they will ! Christ saves them from their sins ! His Death for them, no matter what they have done, makes them Righteous Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.