It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[RickyZ]

[h=3]2 Peter Chapter 2[/h][SUP]20[/SUP] For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
[SUP]21[/SUP] For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
[SUP]22[/SUP] But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog [is] turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

 

[RickyZ]

Luke 6:46 - And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

 

[Kerry]

even the demons believe and tremble.

 

[RickyZ]

Is it heresy to deny all these scriptures in search of the phantom OSAS?

 

[djness]

There are verses that pretty clearly state you can lose salvation. There are also verses that say you can't. The bible doesn't contradict itself.

My question for those of you willing to admit the bible has more scriptures then support your one side, what do you do with the scriptures that support the opposite? If you actually are willing to concede that there are verses in support of both sides. Which there obviously are, you cannot just say since you cannot reconcile them they aren't there, which I am seeing plenty of in this thread.

 

[RickyZ]

They are NOT opposites. Those that the OSAS crowd uses say that God will keep us - which He will, right up until the time that, according to the other scriptures, we decide to walk away. They address 2 different things - what God does, and what we do.

Get off the polar ends, because it meets in the middle.

And that applies to many more subjects than just this.

 

[Kerry]

twisted the scriptures are twisted by man. On the surface it may seem that both sides are represented but an in depth reading guided by the Holy Spirit as you cannot even begin to comprehend the word of God with out the Holy Spirit. Experience and seeing people that have gotten saved and then turning back to what they once were, even to the point of hating God and won't even talk about it. I'm talking about people who were saved for years. I meant one cannot deny what is in their face.

 

[know1]

It means you ain't saved anymore.

That's all the versions I have in English, and they all say the same thing to me as well.
That it is possible for a child of God to lose their salvation.

 

[Alligator]

Hebrews Chapter 6

[SUP]4[/SUP] For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[SUP]5[/SUP] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[SUP]6[/SUP] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

Maybe I should repeat this one 100 times, in enlarged and colored letters.

Now Ricky, you know they were never saved to begin with.

 

[RickyZ]

[SUP]4[/SUP] For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[SUP]5[/SUP] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Now Alli, you know these things are impossible to taste unless one has been saved.

 

[RickyZ]

twisted the scriptures are twisted by man. On the surface it may seem that both sides are represented but an in depth reading guided by the Holy Spirit as you cannot even begin to comprehend the word of God with out the Holy Spirit. Experience and seeing people that have gotten saved and then turning back to what they once were, even to the point of hating God and won't even talk about it. I'm talking about people who were saved for years. I meant one cannot deny what is in their face.

?

Sorry maybe I misread but that sounds circular to me.

 

[Alligator]

John, when will you completely trust the Lord Jesus for your future? when will you trust Him as your only and sufficient Savior? He paid for all your sins in the most horrible pain imaginable on the cross. He said, "It is finished."

When will it be,
"Nothing in my hand I bring;
simply to thy cross I cling."

Atwood, when are you going to stop using This silly "argument" to try and justify your belief ?? I have read this same response more times than I can count in this one thread alone. Is meaningless. Youre attacking other posters that do not share your opinion and telling them they do not trust Jesus, and quite frankly, I'm tired df hearing it as I'm sure some others are also.

 

[Kerry]

well now knowing what I have learned about the cross I can't be turned from it. But, many, many do not know. A lot of Christians give up and say it's just not for me or I can't do it and their right you can't do it. Ask an alcoholic to stop drinking, he can't, tell a drug addict to stop, they can't, tell a sinner to stop sinning, they can't. Tell a christian that is bound by sin that they are sinning because they were never saved and they need to stop, they can't. Stop beating them up and teach them the cross and they will get delivered and set free, why condemn them. The devil is already beaten them up, they don't need any more punches. They need the cross.

 

[Sinnner]

That's all the versions I have in English, and they all say the same thing to me as well.
That it is possible for a child of God to lose their salvation.

Of course it is. The bible makes it really clear. I think it is better referred to as "turning away from The Lord" or something like that. To commit a terrible sin you will have to push The Lord aside in your soul to do it. If you continue to do it and not repent you make a conscious decision to push him out of your life. It's not like we can misplace our salvation.

 

[Alligator]

[SUP]4[/SUP] For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[SUP]5[/SUP] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Now Alli, you know these things are impossible to taste unless one has been saved.

okay, how about this: they only tasted of the heavenly gift they did not eat of it therefore that implies it were never saved.?

 

[Kerry]

okay, how about this: they only tasted of the heavenly gift they did not eat of it therefore that implies it were never saved.?

is it a lottery, I believe in my heart and confess with my mouth the Lord Jesus Christ and maybe if it's a good day you will save me. Hey I got a bridge I well sell ya and it's golden.

 

[Atwood]

okay, how about this: they only tasted of the heavenly gift they did not eat of it therefore that implies it were never saved.?

Good observation, Alligator.
What indicates that they were not saved is 6:9, and observations like yours shows that it is possible to interpret the characteristics of the apostates as mere profession, not salvation.
better things which are characteristic of salvation, but not characteristic of the apostates in the preceding verses. I think that the characteristics of these apostates fits Judas rather well, who had a demon.

Alligator,
I am sure you are aware of a group in "Christendom" which advocates that faith in Christ as Savior (believe) is not enough for salvation, but wants to add in 3 or 4 more grocery list items. I was raised in groups related to that tradition. But for the system I was raised in, it was not actually trusting Christ as Savior, but believing that Jesus was the Son of God. After you went forward & the preacher asked you if you believed that Jesus was the Son of God, the next step was dunked in water without much delay.

Ultimately I left that tradition after I actually did trust Christ as Savior when I became a young adult. I left after a preacher in my denomination said like, "Yes, I believe that Jesus is the Son of God" [denominational shibboleth], and BTW you and I are also sons of God." And in the particular church I was in as a teenager, salvation was not a topic; they didn't talk about being saved. It was "join the church." No one ever preached that Christ's death paid for our sins on the cross.

But there was nothing about trusting the Lord Jesus to save you, just "believing that," which can be demonic belief to the extent that demons believe facts like that. And after the confession, "Yes" to the question (which indeed I did believe) and the dunking, I had no assurance of going to Heaven -- I was not trusting the Lord Jesus with my destiny, but had in mind a judgment after death in which works would decide my destiny.

This system 4 or 5 item grocery list for salvation theory reminds me of the RCC system quite a bit. Do you see the resemblance?

I hope that you realize that one's destiny depends on trusting the Lord Jesus as Savior, not believing the fact that He is the Son of God (which is of course presupposed in defining the term Jesus).

 

[Kerry]

and y'all know the hearts of people how?

 

[Kerry]

How can you possibly be a branch if you were not part of the vine?

John 15

I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

 

[Atwood]

is it a lottery, I believe in my heart and confess with my mouth the Lord Jesus Christ and maybe if it's a good day you will save me. Hey I got a bridge I well sell ya and it's golden.

Roosevelt Franklin, whachu say?

Golden?
Naw, nothing from the Left Coast;
It's the Brooklyn Bridge and Dodgers or nothing. Spose I buy the Dodgers and bring them back to Ebbets Field in Flatbush.

"maybe if it's a good day" LOL.

Confess = homologeo (say the same, agree with). When you trust Christ as Savior you must have Him defined as LORD (YHWH) and risen from the dead; proper definition if not perfect. Jesús the Mexican car mechanic cannot save you. Only the real 2nd person of the Trinity can do that, the God-man, Christ Jesus.

The wages of sin is death,
but the free gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
It is free; no moolah needed.

The Spirit and the Bride say come, drink freely, whoever is willing.

He that hath no money, come.