It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[Atwood]

The Gospel is an Offense to Mere-Professed Christians

So if you are telling professed Christians how they need to trust Christ as only & sufficient Savior, to trust Him with their eternal destiny, they are likely to be offended, since they regard themselves as Christians (I am one of the good boys).

But those who actually deny that Christ is the Savior (though they call him that) by regarding Him as one who gives them a chance at eternal life, instead of actually giving them eternal life -- they need to understand that they are failing to trust the Savior.

It is imperative to actually depend on the Lord Jesus for your eternal destiny.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.
The gifts and calling of the Lord are irrevocable.
He who started the work will complete it in you (who trust Him for salvation).

So, be offended if you must, but now is the day of salvation.

Right now, trust the Lord Jesus as the author and perfecter of your faith, as the one who paid for your sins on the cross, as the only & sufficient Savior, as the one who gives eternal life, merely for trusting Him -- no ifs ands or buts:

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.

 

[homwardbound]

Brother, if you believe in the gift of eternal security, shall we argue with it? Shall we try relentlessly try to persuade men who believe baptism and works are a part of salvation? I haven't read all of your posts...so

Agreed Brother, time to trust God for God to do what God does best

Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

 

[homwardbound]

"Dear Timeline, Is it not time for you to actually trust the Lord Jesus with your eternal destiny?"

Dear Atwood, is it not time for you to just SHUT UP. !!

sorry you are agitated Brother, maybe it is time for all to go into prayer to God and trust God each one of us. That is where I am headed
Thank you

 

[RickyZ]

It's not so much judging, as advising aganst doing this: http://christianchat.com/miscellaneous/93543-beware-bartering-word-god.html

 

[RickyZ]

But I apologize for pushing the envelope. I know I've been a bit sarcastic here.

 

[Atwood]

I hold to the perspective of ESOTB, which differs from OSAS in a small degree. ESOTB means eternal security of the believer.

For you to tell a BELIEVER to accept Christ as Savior is like the doctrine of re-baptism(to be baptized twice, to be under your pastor), it isn't scriptural. It happens once, and in the same way, they've already accepted Jesus.

So far as I know, Ben, the Bible never offers salvation for "accepting Jesus."
I regret that the message is an offense, Ben. Now have you not claimed that a "believer" may end up in the Lake of Fire for losing faith? Now what will you tell such a person who "loses faith"? Will you tell him that if He trusts the Lord Jesus he will be saved (again)? If you do that, don't you violate your claim that to tell someone to believe again (after he has believed once) is unscriptural? But would you just tell the one who started non-believing that he had no chance now at salvation?

Your whole idea on this is unscriptural. People don't lose faith in the Savior in the scripture. The Lord Jesus is the author and perfecter of our faith.

Can you not see that if you claim that somehow you might end up in the Lake of Fire, you are not trusting the Lord Jesus for eternal life and that you thus need to do it? Your POV indicates that you do not trust the Lord Jesus with your eternal destiny, but as one who just gives you a chance at salvation. And that being the case, the message is regrettably:
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.

 

[homwardbound]

You are wrong. I've heard many popular OSAS teachers teach that a saved person could live a life full of sin like the world and still go to heaven. Its a very popular teaching that millions of people believe and its a lie. They deny Jesus with their lifestyles and are not saved even if once they were.

To me that is not what I see as OSAS what you are posting here.

I do see this teaching though and did bite into it for a short while, and got a mouth full of wax

So i saw this freedom and acted like the Corinthians did at first, and after a short while being free to do as they did, I lost excitement to sin against anyone, it was not fun any longer. I was not enticed, there was no challenge.

So I came to see sin does take occasion by the commandment, and saw the Law of liberty, which i now reside in with a Godly sorrow, not a worldly one
Anyway so those with ears to hear listen, God loves you this deep that he took away the commandments that bring the ones under it stress with no rest, that are working hard to enter it, will not without belief. Even if one says they beleive, that stating one believes, still has the matter of why, their motive to face why>
Romans 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

So if ones motive is amiss, might be time to rethink ones motive you think, maybe? and thus be set free in love

 

[homwardbound]

I believe as you do. I don't think one sin and our salvation is gone. Its by faith through grace so if the faith is gone and rejection has taken its place then there is no more salvation for that person. Jesus said if we deny him he will also deny us. Faith is the conduit that gives us access to grace.

And God causes us to stand and take no credit for the self.

 

[homwardbound]

Re: Rom 2:7 Canard Nothing to Do with Eternal Security

If you look back I did back quote it. I back quoted spokenpassage. Unfortunately your belief is taken by millions as OSAS and as a license to sin. The whole book of Jude speaks against this.

Think for a minute, you get a license to sin, free to go about life just sinning away, How long do you think it will take for that first excited flesh to be free to sin, under no commandment to keep from sin any longer
A month, before the excitement goes away, two, three four. Could take longer to see the futility in harming anyone else at all
Yet when you do you might see you are no longer under Law and do not harm neighbor any longer, finally having a Godly sorrow over the worldly one we had under Law as the Corinthians came to see
2 Corinthians 7:9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
2 Corinthians 7:11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

 

[Atwood]

Jesus in Matthew 7 warns about many who would call him "Lord" to whom He will say: Depart from Me.

Of course that refers to the judgment & a name of address then (Lord). It has nothing to do with calling on the name of the Lord in faith for salvation in this life.

In Revelation 2-3, there are seven letters to seven churches or at least to the angel or messenger of seven churches. In each letter, there is a wonderful promise for those who overcome (and an implied warning to others). The rational implication is that some in those churches will not overcome and will not inherit those promises.

The fact is that some in local churches are not overcomers. 1 John defines the term overcome/overcomer he who believes [trusts in the truth] that Jesus is the Son of God, in other words, everyone who is a real believer in the Lord Jesus as only & sufficient Savior, who trusts Him with their eternal destiny, is an overcomer.

However, we don't know other people like God does. The Lord God only truly knows who is associated with Himself eternally.

Only the Lord knows the heart, who truly trusts the Lord Jesus as Savior and has been born again. We get a good idea from the fruit. And we can identify some unbelievers by their denial of cardinal doctrine (Jesus Christ has come in the flesh) or their blasphemy of the name of Jesus.

‎

Every tree that brings not forth good fruit is cut down and cast into the fire... Not every one that says unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. (Matthew 7:19,21)

There is none who does good, no not one. All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags. We will never do the will of the Father until we trust Christ as Savior & get a change of nature, a new birth. The will of the Father is that you trust the Lord Jesus as only & sufficient Savior, depending on Him for your eternal destiny.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast.


B

To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God. (Revelation 2:7)

​

To be an overcomer is the same as to be a believer in the Lord Jesus, to be one who has faith in Him.

For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that hath overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he that overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? -- 1 John

 

[homwardbound]

To Atwood, Do you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as your savior? I know you do, therefore you are a brother in Christ, I hold the same belief. Do you think we should strive for perfection and seek to be sinless daily, but not for our salvation but to show the power of God so that we may lead others to Christ? If/when you lead others to Christ do you start telling them that there's nothing that they can do to lose their salvation like lose faith and reject Jesus? Or rather would you tell a new believer to find a bible based church and read their bible, pray and keep the faith?

I ask these things because I cant seem to grasp the division between professed believers. There is a foundation set forth in the bible that if followed leads to being saved. If one has faith he is saved. If someone had faith and no longer does there is no more salvation, right?

There are those that profess and those that possess God's power from on high. You and all , includes me know in our own hearts truth to the matter at hand

Is God the only pone good?

 

[homwardbound]

Re: Rom 2:7 Canard Nothing to Do with Eternal Security

It is? How so? Anyway I thought we are to judge those in the church.
1 Corinthians 5:12-13[SUP]12 [/SUP]What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? [SUP]13 [/SUP]God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”[SUP][[/SUP]

Really I judge no one, not even myself, I am Judged by God alone not mankind, and in God am free to be free and trust no flesh mankind here on this earth. Only Christ and what Christ has done
You, me, ones Church or anyone here today on earth in the flesh are not the judges, For no flesh ever pleased God but Christ's alone and is not here in the flesh today
But if were:
[h=3]Hebrews 8:1-4[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

8 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; [SUP]2 [/SUP]a minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
This world and its ways are at enmity with God, period

 

[Atwood]

the way you present eternal security so that you don't make believers feel as if they must re-accept Christ. They are a part of the body of Christ, they have just yet to receive the revelation of that security.

Pardon the offense Ben, but if anyone thinks he may somehow end up in the Lake of Fire, that person is not trusting the Lord Jesus as Savior and needs to realize it. If anyone has Jesus defined as one who gives a chance at salvation, but not a true Savior, He needs to realize that. I make no assumption of your beliefs, I read what you post. Did you not express the POV that a believer could lose his salvation by stopping believing? That indicates a failure to trust the One Who paid for our sins and give the gift of eternal life.

You may have just meant to accept Him as Savior and not "Potential Savior", if that was your intent, again you made an assumption of my beliefs.

So you are not saying that a person who once believes may not go to the Lake of Fire eventually after he stops believing? Again, so far as I know, the Bible never says "accept Him" for salvation. Trust Him as SAvior, not as potential Savior is another way to put it, as you suggest.

He IS my Savior, I am solely dependent upon Him for my salvation. I am secure in Him and the Lord's promises, including being sealed with the Spirit. I just think the implied meaning behind those words can be insulting, and indeed, I did receive as an insult. If this wasn't your intent, I apologize, but do consider how you present eternal security without questioning the salvation of others.[/QUOTE]

Well Ben, be insulted for a moment if you must; but what I say is the truth. He Who does not trust Christ as Savior, but only as one who gives you a chance to be saved, is not trusting Christ as Savior. In which case, the remedy is to repent and to actually trust the Lord Jesus for one's eternal destiny.

 

[Atwood]

Re: Rom 2:7 Canard Nothing to Do with Eternal Security

Actually, you never had free will to choose God apart from God in the first place. Adam was the only mere man who had free will before the fall. There is no scripture that teaches a man can choose God apart from God. Jesus even said, "no one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him" (John 6:44).

You know the reason why it has to happen like that? Several reasons, I will point one or more out.

Apart from God you do not desire God at all, "There is none righteous, not even one; there is none who understands, there is none who seeks after God" (Rom 3:10-11). Obviously it's because of our sin to which we were enslaved by, "Jesus answered them saying, 'truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave of sin.'" (John 8:34).

Haven't you read in Romans 8 that it says, "For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God." (5-8).

Obviously as sinful man, we cannot come to God in our own since we are of the flesh that "set their minds on the things of the flesh". The act of regeneration comes from God the Spirit, only God can change your heart not any of us, "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances." (Ezekiel 36:25-27).

Obviously we see this in John 3 when Jesus spoke to Nicodemus about being "born again", "Jesus answered and said to him, 'truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." (vs.5). If we cannot see it, wouldn't that mean it's God's first move not us? That's what verse 8 states.

Let's jump to 1 Corinthians 2:14, "But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised." Very true this scripture speaks, reading it in context gives you a bigger picture that man cannot understand God except through the Spirit (vs. 10). Read 1 Corinthians 2.

So...your free will is either in bondage to sin (John 8:34), or captured by grace (Ephesians 2:8-10). You do not stand on middle ground. Please read John 1:12-13 it's not up to us to be born but God! Read Romans 9:16-24, it is not our will but God's.

All verses taken from the NASB

A great post Spoken. A few paragraph spacings would help it for my taste.

I myself have not argued much about free will, as it problematic (at least for me) to understand, and not necessary to understand in order to grasp that the Lord Jesus gives eternal life to the believer, who never perishes.

Have you read Tolkien's Silmarillion where his story fuses free will and predestination? Tolkien seems to indicate that while every creature has free will and operates under no compulsion making free choices, yet everything the creature does was determined exactly by God. I don't exclude the idea that fee will and God's sovereignty could both be simultaneously true, as impossible as that may be to understand. But I also am aware that God does override free will apparently; He turns hearts.

Yet for some reason, John 3:16 does not say:

For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that whoever has everlasting life should not perish, but believe in Him.

it's not up to us to be born but God!

I don't see how God being the initiator and things being up to Him excludes things being up to us also. The gospel goes to whosoever will. The Spirit and the Bride say, Come. Whoever is willing. do you suppose we will understand all this better bye and bye?

 

[homwardbound]

Re: Rom 2:7 Canard Nothing to Do with Eternal Security

I've never said Atwood approves of sin. I've only stated that the OSAS teaching gives a license to sin. I'm not saying that the teachers of this are OK with sin but the product of this teaching is a large group of people (millions) who live like hell and think they are saved. Its not biblical.

Here; take it your license. And have a blast, and in about three months tell me how much fun it is to sin when you do not, have to keep from it, No challenge no fun and it might take years to cme on through? It did me, praying not though

Romans 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

And continued to for years, praying you don't have to reinvent the truth as I tried to for years?

So keep sowing to flesh, whether you want to sin or not and guess what by thinking flesh thoughts in not wanting to do that sin, what do you do?

read all of Romans 7 and praying God opens truth up to you, in your inability to be a good person for God to respond to you by what you do or not do? Because God won't people will and you will think it from God when quite possibly not. you decide
For the creator does not respond to his creation, or do you think God does?
If God responds to me, you are anyone besidses Christ (whom is the only one ever perfect here on earth)
That would make me God of God or you God of God.
Therefore in light of this truth, how do you want to cary forward trying to be God of God or respond with thanksgiving and praise?
Your choice, the rubber just hit the road, time to pull over and repent from any and all your works or continue to screech those tires, that all the reward you will ever get is from others patting you on the back as in the day of chirst where he said they already got their reward
Thank you Lord I trust you to reveaL this or not, for i know yoo Father "Daddy knows best"

 

[BenFTW]

Atwood, you are speaking out of ignorance and in that ignorance you are condemning me. We have a bit of misinformation going on here and it is in part due to your lack of inquiry. I invited whomever to correct me, as I did not know if that is how the Word described an apostate. You took up that offer, but in doing so, you make it as if that is the position I hold. It is not, any longer. However, in that invitation you decided to tell me Jesus isn't my Lord and Savior. You need to stop that. He is. See now, in my previous understanding of an apostate, my security was not in question because I know I believe in God. There was no factor by which disbelief would happen. So apostasy wasn't an option. Therefore your conclusion that if someone holds to the belief of apostasy as a means of rejecting salvation therefore leads to not being in Christ is a lie from the pits of hell. There are many children of God who hold to the doctrine of apostasy who are saved born-again children of God.

You need to stop condemning the children of God, as you're working against the very thing you profess to promote. That is, security. Stop.

 

[homwardbound]

Re: Rom 2:7 Canard Nothing to Do with Eternal Security

That would imply that our free will is taken away once we get saved. That's not true either. Even the angels have free will. They chose to fall as satan did. They were in heaven, they didn't even need to be saved yet chose to fall. They had free will as we do also. God wants a people that willingly choose Him and continue to choose Him.

You never heard of being a bondservant?

 

[BenFTW]

Pardon the offense Ben, but if anyone thinks he may somehow end up in the Lake of Fire, that person is not trusting the Lord Jesus as Savior and needs to realize it. If anyone has Jesus defined as one who gives a chance at salvation, but not a true Savior, He needs to realize that. I make no assumption of your beliefs, I read what you post. Did you not express the POV that a believer could lose his salvation by stopping believing? That indicates a failure to trust the One Who paid for our sins and give the gift of eternal life.



So you are not saying that a person who once believes may not go to the Lake of Fire eventually after he stops believing? Again, so far as I know, the Bible never says "accept Him" for salvation. Trust Him as SAvior, not as potential Savior is another way to put it, as you suggest.

He IS my Savior, I am solely dependent upon Him for my salvation. I am secure in Him and the Lord's promises, including being sealed with the Spirit. I just think the implied meaning behind those words can be insulting, and indeed, I did receive as an insult. If this wasn't your intent, I apologize, but do consider how you present eternal security without questioning the salvation of others.

Another lie from the pits of hell (what I put in bold). The very admonition the disciples gave to the churches was to "grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ." Why? So they wouldn't condemn themselves or feel they've lost salvation. We grow in His grace through revelation of Who He is and who we are in Him. Christians, saved Christians, do question their salvation and eternal destination, but that is because they get their eyes off Jesus and onto themselves. So, what is the answer? "Grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ." Be comforted in the fact of His grace and what He has accomplished at the cross.

Yes, a born-again saved, eventually going to heaven, Christian can question how secure his salvation is and STILL be in Christ (saved). It is human. Yet, the answer is to look to Jesus, and become more aware of the security you have in Him. So for you to tell Christians who question their assurance that they are not in Christ, you are doing the work of the enemy. A Christian who questions their assurance need only grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ, not "re-accept" Him, as they are already secure in Him, sealed by the Holy Spirit Who is the Seal of Redemption. So, I say again, "Stop!"

 

[homwardbound]

Re: Rom 2:7 Canard Nothing to Do with Eternal Security

That would imply that our free will is taken away once we get saved. That's not true either. Even the angels have free will. They chose to fall as satan did. They were in heaven, they didn't even need to be saved yet chose to fall. They had free will as we do also. God wants a people that willingly choose Him and continue to choose Him.

The free will we have chosen is not to behave, is to trust god to teach us how to, by Faith. The same as Christ did here on earth
Did Christ walk by anything other than Faith? Did the same Holy Spirit of Father get sent to us? the one that led Christ? or do we have a different Spirit as an angel of light trying to intermingle and bring in heresy? and has by getting uis to work, by commands?
Romans 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

Why do you think you are still in sin?
Could it be because you are trying hard not to? I mean you do keep asking God to take that away do you not? and it keeps happening anyway, and are entrenched in it are you not?
God wants you to be released from it as you desperately want, but can;t because?

Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting

Note: in other versions it states it different and has caused the deception you are in

[h=3]Galatians 6:8[/h]New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

Which version is truth? for one states to please their flesh which you do not want right? And the other say just think it and do it you will, whether you want to or not.

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh
Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

And this is what we all are in unredeemed flesh, and can't do what we want to, so since this is true and you feel trapped and want to get out from underneath, maybe consider you dead to flesh dead Spirit that can't be perfect by Christ's death on the cross for you, and come alive to Father in Spirit and truth.?

 

[Atwood]

OSS Believers Have an Unshakeable Kingdom

OSS = Once Saved, Saved

Believers have an Unshakeable Kingdom:

"Wherefore, receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us have grace, whereby we may offer service well-pleasing to God with reverence and awe: for our God is a consuming fire."

No, the passage doesn't say that if we fail to offer service, the kingdom will be shaken.

Hebrews gives some stiff warnings vs apostasy, though assuring us that the warnings are not to the saved, and the characteristics of the apostates are not descriptions of true believers who actually have salvation. Thus the book also gives us some security passages, like salvation to the uttermost.