It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security
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K
Brother I do not doubt that Jesus will leave the 99 and go after the one. But in real life, many people who were saved for some reason, lie of the devil, or something choose to reject Him. I know of a few, that came to Jesus and did well and then fell into sin, they were so distraught by this. They didn't know what to do, they tried to stop but were bound by it. They committed suicide.
At a church in Baton Rouge, LA. A Young man came up to the pastor of a church that believes like you do. He asked the Pastor "Pastor are you sure that once saved were always saved" and they Pastor said "yes". the young man took a pistol from his pocket and shot himself in the head and died.
Do you think he was saved?
At a church in Baton Rouge, LA. A Young man came up to the pastor of a church that believes like you do. He asked the Pastor "Pastor are you sure that once saved were always saved" and they Pastor said "yes". the young man took a pistol from his pocket and shot himself in the head and died.
Do you think he was saved?
E
typical response from a legalist.
No. I believe I can do those things from now until I die and I WOULD STILL BE UNWORTHY TO BE CALLED GODS CHILD (which would be in fact the truth)
God saves me TO DO THOSE THINGS (he empowers me to do them. otherwise they are human righteousness, and Not Gods righteousness)
So you believe you can be good enough to earn the right to be called the son of God?
thats funny. John tells me I can never earn that RIght, God gave it to me. Because I trusted in him.
No. I believe I can do those things from now until I die and I WOULD STILL BE UNWORTHY TO BE CALLED GODS CHILD (which would be in fact the truth)
God saves me TO DO THOSE THINGS (he empowers me to do them. otherwise they are human righteousness, and Not Gods righteousness)
So you believe you can be good enough to earn the right to be called the son of God?
thats funny. John tells me I can never earn that RIght, God gave it to me. Because I trusted in him.
S
People think Satanism is this crazy idea of worshiping satan and it is to the hardcore satanist but it can be much more palatable than that. In the 1960's the whole hippy movement was started by Timothy Leary who was a follower of famed Satanist Aliester Crowley who taught that the whole of the Satanist law was do what thou wilt and that was the whole of the law. This was reworded in the hippy movement as do your own thing and people accepted it not knowing it had its roots in satanism. This same mantra rings loud and clear in the OSAS doctrine. How can this be? It can not be this way God forbid.
K
Jesus said that because we do not work for salvation, but good works are proof of salvation...If you return to producing bad works though you can lose your salvation. Look again at Matthew 25:31-46 this is a picture of the judgment throne were those who believe in Christ for salvation get separated as sheep and goats. The sheep are those that continued and did the good works, but the goats are those that did not continue in good works so they were cast out.
E
lol..
Can you tell me Gods standard to earn your salvation?
also. Can you tell me how a person who is truly saved could EVER be as evil as he was before he was saved, so as to cause his salvation to be lost?
Finally. Can you tell me how God knew who would be saved, and chose us before the foundation of the world. Then give someone a gift he KNOWS he has to eventually take back (this puts God in a bad light, and makes him human. who makes errors)
Saying we can not earn salvation by works, then lose it by doing works. is the same as saying we must work to earn salvation.
Paul says we are fools if we believe we are saved by the spirit. then must perfect that salvation in the flesh (the ability to continue to be good and do good works.)
is he talking to you?
Can you tell me Gods standard to earn your salvation?
also. Can you tell me how a person who is truly saved could EVER be as evil as he was before he was saved, so as to cause his salvation to be lost?
Finally. Can you tell me how God knew who would be saved, and chose us before the foundation of the world. Then give someone a gift he KNOWS he has to eventually take back (this puts God in a bad light, and makes him human. who makes errors)
Saying we can not earn salvation by works, then lose it by doing works. is the same as saying we must work to earn salvation.
Paul says we are fools if we believe we are saved by the spirit. then must perfect that salvation in the flesh (the ability to continue to be good and do good works.)
is he talking to you?
K
Wrong again, did I not just say before we do not earn salvation. It is a free gift given by our Lord, but some can and have in the past refuse to accept it. Like Jesus also said there are other ways to deny Him besides not believing in Him, but the gospel has been watered down to make blasphemy of the Holy Spirit as just non-belief.
Read Matthew 25 and you will find out non-belief is not the only way to deny Christ.
Read Matthew 25 and you will find out non-belief is not the only way to deny Christ.
K
Sinner it is a wasted debate.....I showed them in another thread on this same subject a full on study on the history of the early church and how it led by Peter, and Paul did not from them for about 500 years teach OSAS, they taught one could lose salvation. It wasn't tell John Calvin and his followers this philosophy started. They refused to listen and go read it and do research on it themselves to see, one on here did go and research and he came back and messaged me saying I was telling the truth.
Believing OSAS means you believe Calvin's teachings over the Apostles.
Believing OSAS means you believe Calvin's teachings over the Apostles.
So far, so good; however, will there be a but?
OK, still, so far so good!
Other ways, hum. It reminds me of Mr. Rogers:
"There are many ways to say . . . ."
Other ways? How about Peter's way of denying and not losing either his faith in Christ as ultimate Savior, and being forgiven for it? No hint of the oxymoron, "lose faith."
"That thy faith fail not" -- you do find that one in the Bible.
If Christ prays that one's faith fail not, do you suppose the Father will deny that intercessory prayer? Do you suppose that the Lord Jesus doesn't do for all believers what He did for Peter?
Kenneth, why can you not profoundly trust the Lord Jesus with your eternal destiny? He has told us:
He who began a good work in you will complete it. Jesus Christ, the author and the finisher of our faith.
OK, still, so far so good!
Other ways, hum. It reminds me of Mr. Rogers:
"There are many ways to say . . . ."
Other ways? How about Peter's way of denying and not losing either his faith in Christ as ultimate Savior, and being forgiven for it? No hint of the oxymoron, "lose faith."
"That thy faith fail not" -- you do find that one in the Bible.
If Christ prays that one's faith fail not, do you suppose the Father will deny that intercessory prayer? Do you suppose that the Lord Jesus doesn't do for all believers what He did for Peter?
Kenneth, why can you not profoundly trust the Lord Jesus with your eternal destiny? He has told us:
He who began a good work in you will complete it. Jesus Christ, the author and the finisher of our faith.
E
sorry my friend.
If I give you a gift. It is yours. It is yours forever. I paid for it with my money, I gave it to you. I will NEVER BE MINE to take away from you again.
Now you have a choice. You can enjoy the gift. Take pleasure in what the gift has to offer you. Or you can not enjoy the benefits of having it. If you throw it away, it does not change the fact, it is yours.
Saying that if you throw it away, or do something to stop earning it. and I will take it back. does not make it a gift. It makes it a downpaymenf for your good works. I am giving yuo something to make you earn by your own merit.
You can say you are not claiming you are working to earn your salvation all you want. Your words do not fit what you are saying.
If I give you a gift. It is yours. It is yours forever. I paid for it with my money, I gave it to you. I will NEVER BE MINE to take away from you again.
Now you have a choice. You can enjoy the gift. Take pleasure in what the gift has to offer you. Or you can not enjoy the benefits of having it. If you throw it away, it does not change the fact, it is yours.
Saying that if you throw it away, or do something to stop earning it. and I will take it back. does not make it a gift. It makes it a downpaymenf for your good works. I am giving yuo something to make you earn by your own merit.
You can say you are not claiming you are working to earn your salvation all you want. Your words do not fit what you are saying.
I don't know where the term true faith came from but I can't seem to recall it in scripture. It is either you have faith or not ,little faith or great faith. The people in James had faith they were not supporting their faith with works...
Your statement is unfair because we are saved by grace through faith... it does not say through true faith...For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
The problem here was not lack of works but lack of knowledge. James is not telling anyone to test their faith...he is teaching how to live by faith in Christ...which includes work.
Holy Spirit chasten no one ...we are led by the spirit...For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Man can stumble,turn, or fall...Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Your statement is unfair because we are saved by grace through faith... it does not say through true faith...For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
The problem here was not lack of works but lack of knowledge. James is not telling anyone to test their faith...he is teaching how to live by faith in Christ...which includes work.
Holy Spirit chasten no one ...we are led by the spirit...For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Man can stumble,turn, or fall...Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
You reckon that Kenneth ignored my refutation? Does Kenneth have complete minutes of church meetings for 500 years? Eternal Security is in both Peter and Paul. See 1 Pet 1 & Rom 8.
Now there you go on Calvin, the straw man. No one I have read here ever said to believe something because of Calvin.
The following is what seems to me, Kenneth. Correct me if I am wrong:
Actually you believe RCC teachings over scripture, don't you? You consider the human tradition of the papacy superior to the Bible, don't you? Don't you think that the only reason to believe the Bible is that the papal organization says so? So you serve your denominational tradition. And it makes no difference what Bible verse we quote at you. You only believe the Bible as your cult interprets it.
So it would seem a wasted debate; only it is possible that the Holy Spirit will convict you as we swing the sword of His Word. So gaze at the posted scripture with the warning that it could change your POV.
Now there you go on Calvin, the straw man. No one I have read here ever said to believe something because of Calvin.
The following is what seems to me, Kenneth. Correct me if I am wrong:
Actually you believe RCC teachings over scripture, don't you? You consider the human tradition of the papacy superior to the Bible, don't you? Don't you think that the only reason to believe the Bible is that the papal organization says so? So you serve your denominational tradition. And it makes no difference what Bible verse we quote at you. You only believe the Bible as your cult interprets it.
So it would seem a wasted debate; only it is possible that the Holy Spirit will convict you as we swing the sword of His Word. So gaze at the posted scripture with the warning that it could change your POV.
K
Once again I gave you Matthew 25. These people did everything you and EG say one must do to have eternal salvation, but the one thing they did not do is give some one who was hungry something to eat, they did not give some one thirsty something to drink, they did not cloth some one who needed clothes ( falls into good works category ). Jesus casts them out because this was a way of denying Him. By denying others, you deny Him ( not just non-belief ).