Rapture= false teaching

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shad

Guest
#281
#281
The reason why some believe that Jesus Christ is not coming for His bride, the church, before the great tribulation is because they do not believe that Christ loves His bride unconditionally, that he purchased with His own blood and gave Himself for it. They believe that Christ does not see His bride as being perfect and spotless and with no sin. For some reason they think that Christ will not be able to present His bride without fault or blemish before the Father. They are not able to see that the work that Christ finished on the cross is able to perfect those that he has sanctified and justified with His own blood.

They believe that Christ wants His bride to go through the great tribulation and have to face the wrath of God on the children of disobedience. They have this warped sense of understanding about the bride of Christ being delivered from the wrath to come but it doesn't exclude them from having to experience the great tribulation. They fail to see that the wrath of God has been removed from the bride of Christ. They do not understand that the great white throne judgment has nothing to do with the wrath of God, but instead it is the justice of God that is displayed through the Lamb of God and condemns the unbeliever to a subsequent sentence of the second death.

Because their understanding is clouded with error, they are unable to discern the mystery that the Lord Jesus Christ reserved to give to His servant Paul concerning the bride and all things to the church. They fail to see the dispensation of grace that has be reserved for the church and bride that is made up of Jews and Gentiles who believe and not for Israel who is still in unbelief. They can not make a distinction in God's revealed plan for the church and His prophesied plan for His elect Israel. Their error has caused much confusion about grace, about the atonement, about sanctification and justification, about eternal redemption and the promises of God. Their error should be rejected and not embraced in any fashion.
 
S

shrone

Guest
#282
#282
shad said:
The reason why some believe that Jesus Christ is not coming for His bride, the church, before the great tribulation is because they do not believe that Christ loves His bride unconditionally, that he purchased with His own blood and gave Himself for it. They believe that Christ does not see His bride as being perfect and spotless and with no sin. For some reason they think that Christ will not be able to present His bride without fault or blemish before the Father. They are not able to see that the work that Christ finished on the cross is able to perfect those that he has sanctified and justified with His own blood.

They believe that Christ wants His bride to go through the great tribulation and have to face the wrath of God on the children of disobedience. They have this warped sense of understanding about the bride of Christ being delivered from the wrath to come but it doesn't exclude them from having to experience the great tribulation. They fail to see that the wrath of God has been removed from the bride of Christ. They do not understand that the great white throne judgment has nothing to do with the wrath of God, but instead it is the justice of God that is displayed through the Lamb of God and condemns the unbeliever to a subsequent sentence of the second death.

Because their understanding is clouded with error, they are unable to discern the mystery that the Lord Jesus Christ reserved to give to His servant Paul concerning the bride and all things to the church. They fail to see the dispensation of grace that has be reserved for the church and bride that is made up of Jews and Gentiles who believe and not for Israel who is still in unbelief. They can not make a distinction in God's revealed plan for the church and His prophesied plan for His elect Israel. Their error has caused much confusion about grace, about the atonement, about sanctification and justification, about eternal redemption and the promises of God. Their error should be rejected and not embraced in any fashion.
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amen!!...i agree with you...we have to understand the love that christ has for the church.
 
S

shrone

Guest
#283
#283
in rev 13:15..it says "He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast,that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed"...so watchmen if it really is a post trib...how are you gonna make it out cos hey the beast would kill you if you dont worship him....exactly how are you gona make it through the tribulation??
 
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Gabriel777

Guest
#284
#284
shad said:
The reason why some believe that Jesus Christ is not coming for His bride, the church, before the great tribulation is because they do not believe that Christ loves His bride unconditionally, that he purchased with His own blood and gave Himself for it. They believe that Christ does not see His bride as being perfect and spotless and with no sin. For some reason they think that Christ will not be able to present His bride without fault or blemish before the Father. They are not able to see that the work that Christ finished on the cross is able to perfect those that he has sanctified and justified with His own blood.

They believe that Christ wants His bride to go through the great tribulation and have to face the wrath of God on the children of disobedience. They have this warped sense of understanding about the bride of Christ being delivered from the wrath to come but it doesn't exclude them from having to experience the great tribulation. They fail to see that the wrath of God has been removed from the bride of Christ. They do not understand that the great white throne judgment has nothing to do with the wrath of God, but instead it is the justice of God that is displayed through the Lamb of God and condemns the unbeliever to a subsequent sentence of the second death.

Because their understanding is clouded with error, they are unable to discern the mystery that the Lord Jesus Christ reserved to give to His servant Paul concerning the bride and all things to the church. They fail to see the dispensation of grace that has be reserved for the church and bride that is made up of Jews and Gentiles who believe and not for Israel who is still in unbelief. They can not make a distinction in God's revealed plan for the church and His prophesied plan for His elect Israel. Their error has caused much confusion about grace, about the atonement, about sanctification and justification, about eternal redemption and the promises of God. Their error should be rejected and not embraced in any fashion.
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Such ignorance. Read your bible and you will find that there is a rapture IMMEDIATELY after the tribulation ends. You actually believe that Christ will return for THIS church? Didn't He say He will come back for a pure and spotless bride? Is the church spotless right now? Hmm
 
S

shad

Guest
#285
#285
Gabriel777 said:
Such ignorance. Read your bible and you will find that there is a rapture IMMEDIATELY after the tribulation ends. You actually believe that Christ will return for THIS church? Didn't He say He will come back for a pure and spotless bride? Is the church spotless right now? Hmm
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Every believer from the cross to the present, that has been redeemed by the blood of Christ, is part of the bride of Christ. Presently, there are those that are asleep and those that are alive. If the church or bride is not pure and spotless, then those that are asleep are not pure and spotless either. Are not those that sleep in Christ as much of the bride as those who are alive in Christ? What is the tribulation going to do to make the bride pure and spotless? What is God going to do for the bride in the tribulation period that he could not do during the 2,000 years prior to that? Those that are asleep that are not pure and spotless, can not benefit from the tribulation period even if God has some sanctification process that was going to make them all pure and spotless in their experience?

When we believed upon Christ we were cleansed from sin and washed white as snow. We are perfect in God's sight, though we have done nothing perfect but to believe, because we have God's perfect righteousness that was imputed to us when we first believed. We were afar off but have been made nigh by the blood of Christ. We stand before God and we are accepted in Christ because of what Christ has done for us and as us on the cross. Because of the blood that has cleansed us and the gift of God's perfect righteousness that was imputed to us, we are pure and spotless and covered with the robe of righteousness just like the Lamb of God. We are as He is in this present evil world / 1Jn 4:17. This is why we are to be looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that has given us eternal life / Jude 21.

The bride is taken up, the great tribulation takes place, the bride comes back with Christ and reigns for 1000 years. That is the mystery of Christ and the church and the fellowship that we have with Him. Yes, Christ will return for THIS church because it is the only church and bride that He has redeemed and purchased with His own blood and it is perfect, without spot or wrinkle. To the redeemed I say, Rejoice and be exceedingly glad that your name is written in the Lamb's book of life.
 
T

Thaddaeus

Banned
#286
Jan 31, 2009
2,225
11
0
#286
Gabriel777 said:
Such ignorance. Read your bible and you will find that there is a rapture IMMEDIATELY after the tribulation ends. You actually believe that Christ will return for THIS church? Didn't He say He will come back for a pure and spotless bride? Is the church spotless right now? Hmm
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yes I do think that the Blood of Christ is enough to make His Bride spotless sorry that you feel there is something that the You have to do over what Christ has already done, to make yourself worthy to be part of the Church. Looks like in Rev, God said that the blood was enough to wash our robes spotless / white, sorry you don't see that it is Jesus and Jesus alone that will secure your salvation!!!!


Re 7:13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?Re 7:14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Not Because of all the great works that the people had done not how obedient to God they had been But because they have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Praise the Lord,, Thank you Jesus
 
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Gabriel777

Guest
#287
#287
shad said:
Every believer from the cross to the present, that has been redeemed by the blood of Christ, is part of the bride of Christ. Presently, there are those that are asleep and those that are alive. If the church or bride is not pure and spotless, then those that are asleep are not pure and spotless either. Are not those that sleep in Christ as much of the bride as those who are alive in Christ? What is the tribulation going to do to make the bride pure and spotless? What is God going to do for the bride in the tribulation period that he could not do during the 2,000 years prior to that? Those that are asleep that are not pure and spotless, can not benefit from the tribulation period even if God has some sanctification process that was going to make them all pure and spotless in their experience?

When we believed upon Christ we were cleansed from sin and washed white as snow. We are perfect in God's sight, though we have done nothing perfect but to believe, because we have God's perfect righteousness that was imputed to us when we first believed. We were afar off but have been made nigh by the blood of Christ. We stand before God and we are accepted in Christ because of what Christ has done for us and as us on the cross. Because of the blood that has cleansed us and the gift of God's perfect righteousness that was imputed to us, we are pure and spotless and covered with the robe of righteousness just like the Lamb of God. We are as He is in this present evil world / 1Jn 4:17. This is why we are to be looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that has given us eternal life / Jude 21.

The bride is taken up, the great tribulation takes place, the bride comes back with Christ and reigns for 1000 years. That is the mystery of Christ and the church and the fellowship that we have with Him. Yes, Christ will return for THIS church because it is the only church and bride that He has redeemed and purchased with His own blood and it is perfect, without spot or wrinkle. To the redeemed I say, Rejoice and be exceedingly glad that your name is written in the Lamb's book of life.
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Jesus said he will return for a spotless bride. The bride is the church which means he's talking about the believers. The church needs to repent for its current state. Is the church spotless today? with all of this hypocrisy and ignorance?
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

Banned
#288
Jan 8, 2009
7,576
23
0
#288
1 Thes 4 supports my belief.

God's pattern supports my belief. The righteous will not endure the great tribulation.


Quote:
OK for the record.

Before God judged the world with Noah's flood he removed the righteous.

Before God judged sodom and Gomorrah he removed the righteous.

Before God judges the world before the Millenium he will remove the righteous.

He(the Holy Spirirt) who Lets(hinders) will Let(hinder) until he is taken out of the way.

Once the Holy Spirit(which is God's mark of ownership on Christians) is removed(including the Christians) God will be free to judge(the Tribulation) the entire world. See Rev 3
The whole point Snail missed here was they did not endure ANY tribulation. Which is God's pattern
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It's not quite correct that they didn't endure ANY tribulation. Obviously Noah and his family and the animals had to endure a few months at sea, while the flood waters raged around them, it would not be pleasant at all. Lot's wife was a casualty because she looked back, and Lot's daughter I think it was , was gang raped. And Christ warned his disciples (and us) to live holy lives so that we do not become like Lot's wife. In the case of the great tribulation, some believers may be killed by the tribulation events, not to mention any food shortages etc that impact christians due to the events. God's way is to let his people endure tribulation and suffering and come out victorious on the other side, that is the pattern throughout the scriptures and what happens in every case of persecution from the persecutions of pagan rome, to China and the communists and WW2 to today.
 
D

Definition_Christ

Guest
#289
#289
MahogonySnail said:
It's not quite correct that they didn't endure ANY tribulation. Obviously Noah and his family and the animals had to endure a few months at sea, while the flood waters raged around them, it would not be pleasant at all. Lot's wife was a casualty because she looked back, and Lot's daughter I think it was , was gang raped. And Christ warned his disciples (and us) to live holy lives so that we do not become like Lot's wife. In the case of the great tribulation, some believers may be killed by the tribulation events, not to mention any food shortages etc that impact christians due to the events. God's way is to let his people endure tribulation and suffering and come out victorious on the other side, that is the pattern throughout the scriptures and what happens in every case of persecution from the persecutions of pagan rome, to China and the communists and WW2 to today.
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Thank you for the insight.
 
S

shad

Guest
#290
#290
Gabriel777 said:
Jesus said he will return for a spotless bride. The bride is the church which means he's talking about the believers. The church needs to repent for its current state. Is the church spotless today? with all of this hypocrisy and ignorance?
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If what you say is true and the church decides not to repent of its current state, then Christ won't have a bride and there will be no marriage supper. This would change everything in heaven and the scriptures would certainly fail. Or, Jesus would have to delay His coming until every member of the church repents of everything that is not acceptable or presentable to God and that could be another 2,000 years. If the church never repents, who is going to reign with Christ in the millennium? Could it be that the church will lose its salvation and only the Jews will be raptured at the end of the tribulation? Is that the revelation that John received of the Lord. Maybe this is what 'watchmen' wrote in his book.
 
I

imoss

Banned
#291
Feb 27, 2007
3,179
19
0
#291
watchmen said:
I have wrote a book on the subject it is call ''The Sword is Coming''
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"But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand."

suddenly I understand... googled to see your book & figured out your nic. :) Has it been published? I only read the 1st page of results.
 
T

Thaddaeus

Banned
#292
Jan 31, 2009
2,225
11
0
#292
shad said:
If what you say is true and the church decides not to repent of its current state, then Christ won't have a bride and there will be no marriage supper. This would change everything in heaven and the scriptures would certainly fail. Or, Jesus would have to delay His coming until every member of the church repents of everything that is not acceptable or presentable to God and that could be another 2,000 years. If the church never repents, who is going to reign with Christ in the millennium? Could it be that the church will lose its salvation and only the Jews will be raptured at the end of the tribulation? Is that the revelation that John received of the Lord. Maybe this is what 'watchmen' wrote in his book.
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Good point I guess the Church will Leave Jesus standing at the Altar, all alone cause His works were not good enough to preserve the Bride?? how crazy is that?
 
W

watchmen

Banned
#293
Apr 23, 2009
2,253
5
0
#293
shrone said:
well no matter how many books you wrote on what you believe in...you should do more study on it
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Everyone should always study more the day we stop growing and learning is the day we start dying.
 
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watchmen

Banned
#294
Apr 23, 2009
2,253
5
0
#294
Gabriel777 said:
Such ignorance. Read your bible and you will find that there is a rapture IMMEDIATELY after the tribulation ends. You actually believe that Christ will return for THIS church? Didn't He say He will come back for a pure and spotless bride? Is the church spotless right now? Hmm
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Exactly, way to present the truth brother.
 
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watchmen

Banned
#295
Apr 23, 2009
2,253
5
0
#295
imoss said:
"But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand."
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Yes I must blow the trumpet, and that is what iI am trying to do, thiose that will listen awesome, those that refuse to hear, my hands are still clean ;)

suddenly I understand... googled to see your book & figured out your nic. :) Has it been published? I only read the 1st page of results.
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It is in the process of being edited.
 
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watchmen

Banned
#296
Apr 23, 2009
2,253
5
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#296
The fact is threads like this prove over and over that pretribbers have nothing but their indoctrination, which they pass back and forth with no scripture support at all. While post tribbers have the Bible to back what they say.
 
S

shrone

Guest
#297
#297
Gabriel777 said:
Such ignorance. Read your bible and you will find that there is a rapture IMMEDIATELY after the tribulation ends. You actually believe that Christ will return for THIS church? Didn't He say He will come back for a pure and spotless bride? Is the church spotless right now? Hmm
Click to expand...


in rev 13:15..it says "He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast,that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed"...so gabriel777 if it really is a post trib...how are you gonna make it out cos hey the beast would kill you if you dont worship him....exactly how are you gona make it through the tribulation?? and why did God shed His blood on the cross?? to let us go through the tribulation??...im not sure about you but hey im washed in the precious blood of God and i know my Lord wont let me go through the tribulations cos i believe that Jesus truly loves me unconditionally.
 
S

shrone

Guest
#298
#298
watchmen said:
The fact is threads like this prove over and over that pretribbers have nothing but their indoctrination, which they pass back and forth with no scripture support at all. While post tribbers have the Bible to back what they say.
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genius..i asked you a question and you said nothing...
in rev 13:15..it says "He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast,that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed"...so watchmen if it really is a post trib...how are you gonna make it out cos hey the beast would kill you if you dont worship him....exactly how are you gona make it through the tribulation??
 
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greatkraw

Guest
#299
#299
OK guys, in Revelation, who are the 24 elders?
 
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shrone

Guest
#300
#300
Thaddaeus said:
Good point I guess the Church will Leave Jesus standing at the Altar, all alone cause His works were not good enough to preserve the Bride?? how crazy is that?
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exactly that is crazy!! God did so much for us and scriptures clearly tells us that rapture and second coming are 2 different events where rapture takes place first and that in second coming we would be coming down to the earth along with Him...and tribulation will not get us pure or anything.we would still sin since we are in the flesh but Hes ready to forgive us since He loves us unconditionally but we should let go of the sin commited since our God is also a consuming fire as said in hebrews
 
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