The Fixed Earth

[Ancilla]

Snail, you're effort is valiant.

 

[Ancilla]

Snail, you're effort is valiant.

I mean I think you're hopelessly banging your head against the wall but it's nonetheless a good effort.

But for those of you who think Snail's just wasting his time, I think a lot of people have been lost over a belief that Christians are stupid and illogical. So when I see people posting things on this forum that would perpetrate that belief, I like to see it being counteracted, so that any non-Christians visiting this site can see that Christians come in all intelligence levels.

 

[MahogonySnail]

It's no big deal I enjoy it.

 

[Stuey]

Ok I'm going to be completely annoying and throw it out there.

Your both right, and it's called relativity.

To the Sun we are orbitting it, but to us the Sun is orbitting us, and the planets are orbitting the sun, but can also be seen to be doing this really funky pattern near the earth which is largely determined by the Suns gravity.

I can't be bothered explaining relativity right now, I'm presuming you know what it is snail and if you don't cup I can explain it later.

 

[Graybeard]

(1) Firstly there are some statellites that a Geostationary these are used for communications and they are parked motionless ................

(2) I was just correcting the lie that you told about me not believing in satellites.

(3)Because it's a communication signal that your television is recieving it's coming from a Geostationary satellite, as you say it cmes in a straight line, because there are non-moving geostationary satellites positioned all over the globe in this post-modern era, they are able to communicate with each other, this is how you can recieve a signal from the other side of the world.

(2) Firstly I apologize for that statement as I thought you had in a previous post said that satellites do not exist, so I am sorry for that.

(1) and (3) you state that some satellites are stationary, do not move, are motionless, in an earlier post you state this:

The outer atmosphere of the earth is in motion, that is why the satellite moves around the earth, if it was the earth that was moving along with it's atmosphere, then the sateillite could not orbit as it would be moving within the atmosphere of a moving earth, but it revolves along with space which revolves around the earth.

besides having contradicted yourself, how do the motionless satellites resist this moving atmosphere??

 

[Graybeard]

Also Cup...you have said we cannot get to never mind land on the moon. Can you explain the two stage crash that NASA did last month in October when they crashed an old spacecraft and a smaller craft into the moons south pole to examine the dust that the impact threw up for water(which evidently they have found 25 gallons of it). Note, this was observed by many amateur astronomers, although the dust plume was not as significant as expected, it was observed!

 

[Ancilla]

Ok I'm going to be completely annoying and throw it out there.

Your both right, and it's called relativity.

To the Sun we are orbitting it, but to us the Sun is orbitting us, and the planets are orbitting the sun, but can also be seen to be doing this really funky pattern near the earth which is largely determined by the Suns gravity.

I can't be bothered explaining relativity right now, I'm presuming you know what it is snail and if you don't cup I can explain it later.

Don't bother trying to explain it to Cup, it's all Greek to him. I don't really understand relativity, but I DO understand that which is true is not limited to that which I understand. People who don't recognize that will never get very far in life in terms of knowledge and wisdom, and there's not much anyone can do to explain that to them. The thing about me is that I'm not skeptic about something just because I don't understand it, I'm skeptic about things that are contrary to expert consensus.

 

[Ancilla]

Ok, I'll be the first to admit that I haven't read all four hundred and some posts on this thread. If I log on to a Bible discussion, I try to resist threads such as this one that don't discuss the Bible. See, Cup believes that the verses he's quoted (and the other verses in the Bible that he hasn't produced because they don't exist) were meant by God to be taken in an exclusively scientific manner. This is, in my opinion, an example of not only a lack of understanding of the Bible, but it's also looking at it in a very ethnocentric way.

I'll explain what I mean by that latter. I have to go.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Ok I'm going to be completely annoying and throw it out there.

Your both right, and it's called relativity.

To the Sun we are orbitting it, but to us the Sun is orbitting us, and the planets are orbitting the sun, but can also be seen to be doing this really funky pattern near the earth which is largely determined by the Suns gravity.

I can't be bothered explaining relativity right now, I'm presuming you know what it is snail and if you don't cup I can explain it later.

I happy to discuss all details of special realitivity theory in all its errors, as a Christian it would be my pleasure to confront such ungodly and unscientific 'theories' such as Mileva Maric's Relativity speculations.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Your both right, and it's called relativity.

Ah no, Cup isn't right at all, Stuey. The heliocentricity of the universe has been known for a couple of hundred of years and proveable by a number of methods - the sun does not move around the earth, it only appears to from an earth-based observer. Satellites are not motionless, they don't need "engines to push them along" , and LEO satellites do not need fuel to push them along - the first satellite Sputnik 1 which was basically a LEO ball of metal with a radio circulated the earth on its own momentum for 3 months before the orbit decayed and fell to earth. And the claims that satellites aren't or cannot be developed w.r.t. to a rotating earth is nonsense, because the maths is trivial, and the earth rotation constant is implemented in many satellite systems and hand held GPS receivers because it needs to be there, because the earth is rotating on its axis.

Don't bother trying to explain it to Cup, it's all Greek to him.

Actually cup is an expert in linguistics and understands Greek very well.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Also Cup...you have said we cannot get to never mind land on the moon. Can you explain the two stage crash that NASA did last month in October when they crashed an old spacecraft and a smaller craft into the moons south pole to examine the dust that the impact threw up for water(which evidently they have found 25 gallons of it). Note, this was observed by many amateur astronomers, although the dust plume was not as significant as expected, it was observed!

What are you talking about? They fired a rocket at the moon and hit it, well congratulations, that's billions of tax payers money well spent, so lazy satanic governments can shoot at the moon, you are gullible!

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Also Cup...you have said we cannot get to never mind land on the moon. Can you explain the two stage crash that NASA did last month in October when they crashed an old spacecraft and a smaller craft into the moons south pole to examine the dust that the impact threw up for water(which evidently they have found 25 gallons of it). Note, this was observed by many amateur astronomers, although the dust plume was not as significant as expected, it was observed!

Actually I just checked and it was a meteor.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Ah no, Cup isn't right at all, Stuey. The heliocentricity of the universe has been known for a couple of hundred of years and proveable by a number of methods - the sun does not move around the earth, it only appears to from an earth-based observer. Satellites are not motionless, they don't need "engines to push them along" , and LEO satellites do not need fuel to push them along - the first satellite Sputnik 1 which was basically a LEO ball of metal with a radio circulated the earth on its own momentum for 3 months before the orbit decayed and fell to earth. And the claims that satellites aren't or cannot be developed w.r.t. to a rotating earth is nonsense, because the maths is trivial, and the earth rotation constant is implemented in many satellite systems and hand held GPS receivers because it needs to be there, because the earth is rotating on its axis.


.

That's right it fell to the earth, it is in a perpetual state of falling while it maintains initial speed due to original propulsion, accounting for the curvature of the sphere of the earth, as long it can maintain speed in LEO it will stay up until it loses speed and cannot account for the curvature of the sphere of the earth loses, thus losing perpetual falling state and cames back down to earth, this would be called 'orbit'.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

besides having contradicted yourself, how do the motionless satellites resist this moving atmosphere??

I didn't contradict myself as Geostationary Satellites do not move, are you suggesting that the atmosphere of the earth is also rotating at 1000 miles per hour aprox. (Equator) as well as the earth, how do detect this when no experiment has ever detected this movement, of the atmosphere or the earth west to east.

 

[MahogonySnail]

That's right it fell to the earth, it is in a perpetual state of falling while it maintains initial speed due to original propulsion, accounting for the curvature of the sphere of the earth, as long it can maintain speed in LEO it will stay up until it loses speed and cannot account for the curvature of the sphere of the earth loses, thus losing perpetual falling state and cames back down to earth, this would be called 'orbit'.

LEO satellites are launched at high enough speed that their forward momentum in a circular orbit keeps them in orbit, with periodic adjustments being made by thrusters when and if required. Sputnik lasted for 3 months, with no fuel or power or anything. I know for a fact that there are LEO satellites which can stay up for four years or so without thrusters, it's all done with momentum, there's nothing pushing it along - as the satellite falls to the earth this energy is converted to forward motion to keep it in orbit, just like you would speed up if you go down a hill in a car without the accelerator on.

I'm still waiting on one reference from you that says geostationary satellites are motionless and not in a geosynchronous orbit. They are based upon the same principle as LEO re: momentum, and obviously since they are well outside of earth's atmosphere do not need anything to push them along - but that doesn't mean they are motionless. The large ones carry fuel and propulsion in order to correct the orbit when required.

 

[Brackenzee]

I didn't contradict myself as Geostationary Satellites do not move, are you suggesting that the atmosphere of the earth is also rotating at 1000 miles per hour aprox. (Equator) as well as the earth, how do detect this when no experiment has ever detected this movement, of the atmosphere or the earth west to east.

You know, besides all those fake satanic experiments done by satanists to make people believe in the satanic heliocentric view of the solar system.

 

[jcspartan]

Cup-of-Ruin

I don't understand something. You accused me of being a pretend Christian. That means I am conscious of my true self and attempting to appear as something false with the implied intent to deceive other people who are Christian.

You have accused others of espousing and supporting satanic ideas or serving satanic institutions which, it would seem to me based of things you have said, puts them in the enemy camp that is not worth the time and effort to pray for.

Others have been accused of being by you of being "feeble minded" (I paraphrased) to the point of not being capable of understanding the finer points of you elaborate theories on Biblical truth.

For those of us who are pretending or serving Satanic interests are we not, by your own proclamations, the enemy and therefore not worthy of your prayer and efforts to reveal the truth you possess; and for the remainder who are stupid to the point of incomprehension, why do you even put forth the effort to explain yourself?

Why not just shake the dust off and move on?

I am not telling you to leave. I am trying to understand why you bother based off the understanding you have put forth over several posts spread over several threads.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

I'm still waiting on one reference from you that says geostationary satellites are motionless and not in a geosynchronous orbit. They are based upon the same principle as LEO re: momentum, and obviously since they are well outside of earth's atmosphere do not need anything to push them along - but that doesn't mean they are motionless. The large ones carry fuel and propulsion in order to correct the orbit when required.

Geostationary satellites are motionless based on the mathematics which is based a non-moving earth, given that the physics and mathematics have to base all calculations on a non-moving earth, because it's not moving! Therefore a geostationary satellite by it's own definition is how it appears - non-moving and stationary. And this applies for all eclipses, space programs, navigation, satellite movement anything that demands precision needs to be based on the fact that the earth is not moving. That is a fact, it is Geocentric math that is used. No experiment has ever proven that the earth is moving 30 times faster than rifle bullet speed. All scientific experiments have detected no movement and a stationary earth, that's why the math needs to be based on a stationary earth. I would not want to get on board a plane with a pilot who is accounting for a earth rotation of 1000 mph!

Contact NASA and the Smithsonian Air and Space Musem and see if they can provide the verifiable PROOF that the earth is rotating, because they are not basing their math or satellite movements on a non-moving earth! I know that they don't have the math but you can find out yourself. Also you are still confused with GPS and Geostationary satellites and LEO Satellites and their component engine parts relative to speed allegedly travelling at.



engine requirements need to be such to maintain a speed of 7000 mph if you are going to belive they are moving, like GPS or LEO satellites which have very different engine capacities, see if Smithsonian or NASA can povide PROOF that such a machine with can travel at 7000 mph and have it base on a rotating earth, I know they cannot but why don't you find out for yourself.

 

[MahogonySnail]

The mathematics for launching a GEO satellite into orbit are based upon a rotating earth, and that the orbits rotate and travel at high speed is confirmed by GPS or inertial systems on the satellites and/or calculations done from ground stations. The only explanation for why they can measure that GEO satellites travel at high speed, yet still remain above the earth is because the satellite is moving with the earth.

You don't have to base the calculations on a non-rotating earth there are transformations into rotating earth coordinate system. You can design a system based on whatever coordinate system you like and put the origin and define the axes wherever you wish - it doesn't change the physical reality that the satellitse are moving.

The fact is that every airplane you travelled on probably has an inertial nav. system and or GPS and all these systems account for the rotation of the earth because it's a measureable quantity that needs to be corrected for.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

The fact is that every airplane you travelled on probably has an inertial nav. system and or GPS and all these systems account for the rotation of the earth because it's a measureable quantity that needs to be corrected for.

Planes account for rotation of the earth????? Please provide details, what movement of the atmosphere are they accounting for? Obviously we can easily establish that the surface of the earth is not moving without movement of the atmosphere otherwise we would fly by ascending directly up, waiting untiol the surface of the earth rotated at 1000 mph and then descend to the required location, but we don't do that obviously, so please provide details of clockwise and counterclockwise plane travel whereby the atmosphere of the earth is accounted at a speed of 1000 mph. Seeming that this movement has never been detected.