K
Why is that we are in bondage?
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You might as well just say, "Who is my neighbor?".
With all your freedom in your spiritual Sabbath you must have an answer somewhere. Let me try again.
Do you consider yourself in bondage when you abstain from adultery, murder or worshiping false gods and idols?
So far all I got is the usual stuff. I'm in bondage when I obey God and your not when you obey God. You have faith in the cross when you obey God but when I obey God I don't have faith in the cross. Do you see the fallacy in the way you view obedience. That's what happens when you believe the rest you have in Christ is to keep you from obeying God.
I will answer your questions when you define adultery, murder, and worshipping false gods and idols.
You cannot shake what is on solid ground. Remember I do not condemn you for going to church on Saturday. I am simply trying to see how knowledgeable you are in these things.
Again to hate your brother makes one a murderer. Do you see the sunday church goer saved as yourself?
Because your obeying the old covenant by worshipping Saturday instead of Christ. Each 7th day was appointed for the children of Israel to rest (Exodus 31:16-17). For 400 years they had no rest as slaves, and the sabbath rest was a time set-aside to remember their deliverance. But this observance foreshadowed the new covenant, when the Lord of the Sabbath became our perpetual rest (salvation). Jesus freed us by defeating sin, death, and the devil. Because of his truth and sacrifice, we are no longer captives bound by sin. Believers are no longer slaves to sin, because we were liberated by Christ. God rested (paused) from His work and Jesus finished it. Our rest is now in Christ and its everlasting. jmo
H
Hashe
Guest
Scuba the problem with your thinking is the focus. The focus is not on keeping the laws. The focus is on Jesus and the Father and the Holy Spirit.
When you truly focus on these, and open yourself to the work of the spirit, you find yourself doing the things that will please God.
Keeping the law is at best only 50%, but no-one ever keeps the law 100%, they never get 50%.
When you focus on Jesus, you, naturally, do more than the law requires.
When you truly focus on these, and open yourself to the work of the spirit, you find yourself doing the things that will please God.
Keeping the law is at best only 50%, but no-one ever keeps the law 100%, they never get 50%.
When you focus on Jesus, you, naturally, do more than the law requires.
H
Hashe
Guest
As per the scriptures, the law keeps people in bondage, when you focus on that you focus on bondage.
Jesus gives freedom, when you focus on Jesus you have freedom.
Jesus gives freedom, when you focus on Jesus you have freedom.
This is a difficult point to decide on. Kerry is making a statement that because of the cross we should not listen to scripture. That is pretty serious, it really isn't about Kerry or the posters any more, it is about the word of God. People are looking at the forum for answers, and Christians know the answer is not in saying scripture is not to be listened to, and using a scripture truth as a reason for it is not a good reason. Should we let it go without saying anything, or speak up, even though we know the one giving such reasoning will be angry and fight back? Giving scripture to them only gives them a platform for giving more of these ideas, maybe it is best to just let them go and hope those new in the faith will be able to see it is not the truth. I don't think that pointing out scripture is going to law, but maybe it is.
It seems to me that this attitude about scripture is bringing our churches to such acceptance of sin that the last days will bring God's justice to us, and we are told of what a blood bath that will be.
The law is that we are to love the Lord with all our heart. We are told that is the top law and all the other supports it. We are to know that and the cross. This focus idea is not of scripture. The concept of focus can include not being able to see the whole of scripture, and blinding yourself to everything scripture tells us but one thing. To know of one aspect of scripture is not to focus on it, to deny one aspect of scripture is to focus on something so you cannot see the rest.
Evidently, you are focusing on one part of scripture so as to blind yourself to another, or you wouldn't accuse those who learn of the law and accepting it as scripture as focusing on it. You are focusing on works as unable to save, and so blinding yourself to what works are for. We know works cannot save, but do not focus on that so we can listen to scripture about works as well as what it cannot do. It is a matter of not focusing, but humbly listening to God.
Why do people who go to church on Sundays say that Saturday goers are under the law and bondage? Because they say that all Sunday church goers are breaking the law and therefore doomed to the lake. This will never stop as long as you feel you have the power according to the law to defraud a Sunday goer. Therefore we bite and devour one another in a tooth for a tooth and an eye for an eye.
Matthew 5:38-48
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
[SUP]39[/SUP]But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
[SUP]42 [/SUP]Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
[SUP]43 [/SUP]Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
[SUP]45 [/SUP]That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
[SUP]46[/SUP]For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
[SUP]47 [/SUP]And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
[SUP]48 [/SUP]Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Say you are right. What harm are they doing in going to church to worship God on a Sunday? Now I don't know about you all, but I need God everyday!
Now does God dwell in any building made with human hands (bricks and stones)? If No, then there is no "buts" with that.
P
pastac
Guest
@scuba it is very possible to be bound to the belief that you are correct even when wrong. Proverbs 23:7King James Version (KJV)[SUP]7 [/SUP]For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee, So if you have convinced your self you are right no manner of responses will change that. A renewal of the mind has to come before the mind is changed. Romans 12:2King James Version (KJV)[SUP]2 [/SUP]And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. Often we get caught up in a matter that is not edifying and when we need to be taught we are trying to teach. King James Heb 5:12
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.[Ecclesiastes 12:12-13] "My son, beware of anything beyond these. Of making many books
there is no end, and much study is a weariness of the flesh. The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man."
Scuba when God says to do something it becomes a commandment for us who believe that, each time it is a progression unto Holiness. We have long been released from the old covenant and all the foundational laws that kept men in bondage to the law. No man could live under the law it was meant to judge the error of man. Mercy and grace is where we are living the era of grace and mercy supersedes the law but keeps the foundation and essence of Gods intent for us. You know adultery is wrong as is murder spiritual or natural. This Sabbath thing is a thorn in the flesh that will not go away due to lack of understanding on the part of the people. It is not the words fault people think in a box. Let me close by saying this in all your getting get understanding then we will be able to stand under the word in its fullness. Prov 4:77Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding. Pastac
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.[Ecclesiastes 12:12-13] "My son, beware of anything beyond these. Of making many books
there is no end, and much study is a weariness of the flesh. The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man." Scuba when God says to do something it becomes a commandment for us who believe that, each time it is a progression unto Holiness. We have long been released from the old covenant and all the foundational laws that kept men in bondage to the law. No man could live under the law it was meant to judge the error of man. Mercy and grace is where we are living the era of grace and mercy supersedes the law but keeps the foundation and essence of Gods intent for us. You know adultery is wrong as is murder spiritual or natural. This Sabbath thing is a thorn in the flesh that will not go away due to lack of understanding on the part of the people. It is not the words fault people think in a box. Let me close by saying this in all your getting get understanding then we will be able to stand under the word in its fullness. Prov 4:77Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding. Pastac
People who go to church on Saturday go only because scripture says the seventh day was the day that the Lord blessed for the Sabbath and they want to follow the Lord as much as they can, even to that extent. They are listening to all scripture so they listen to scripture saying that God isn't looking at a certain day, but on our obeying in spirit and truth, so even as we reason for using Saturday, we know other Sabbaths can be chosen. So God isn't counting Sunday worshippers as sinful.
Also, needing God everyday has nothing to do with understanding about a Sabbath.
May i with all due respect to you, ask what do we do on the day of Sabbath, since now we are the 'Body of CHRIST', according to the New Covenant?
"People who go to church on Saturday" does not equate to "the seventh day was the day that the Lord blessed for the Sabbath".
Saturday is not the Sabbath, only the shadow of the rest to come. You should of all people, being Sabbath followers, fully welcome it's true meaning. One in which all of mankind can truly rest, all 7 days a week, without worry of a bill to pay, a house to live in, food to eat, and a genuine peace of mind. Plus if you believe your last statement, why even debate at all? It is not a sin....
I think we are in error when we say all the old covenant has been cancelled. A new testament (like a will and testament) can be the only one listened to, but a covenant is a legal agreement between parties, and although the new covenant is better so the old covenant is not needed as much, it does not cancel the old one. We need to understand much better what the old one was and how the new one is built on it. God as an eternal God speaking in one voice does not change that voice based on the year our earth has been. We have always had the law, it prevents chaos. We have always had grace and mercy, it is the essence of God. God did not give us the Sabbath to be a thorn in our flesh, God gave it to us for our benefit. We are to discuss it to see if Christians can understand God, but not to hit each other over the head with it. We cannot blame God for giving us the Sabbath for our using it to sin with each other giving judgments that are only God's place, both those who believe the scripture about it, and those who say scripture denies God gave it to us.pastac;1620672 We have long been released from the old covenant and all the foundational laws that kept men in bondage to the law. No man could live under the law it was meant to judge the error of man. Mercy and grace is where we are living the era of grace and mercy supersedes the law but keeps the foundation and essence of Gods intent for us. You know adultery is wrong as is murder spiritual or natural. This Sabbath thing is a thorn in the flesh that will not go away due to lack of understanding on the part of the people. It is not the words fault people think in a box. Let me close by saying this in all your getting get understanding then we will be able to stand under the word in its fullness. Prov 4:7[URL="http://biblehub.com/proverbs/4-7.htm" said:
If you are correct, we are not to read "rest from your labor" or "work six days a week".
Read it in it's real meaning.
6000 years man was given to do all his work. What work was that?
Galatians 5:19*21
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
The 7th day or end of this 6000 years, we are commanded to rest from these works. This starts with the world wide economic collapse. Again you who are a Sabbath follower should know these things.
Have you not read that God commanded the people to be released of all debt every seven years? And that 7 of these sets of 7 equals 49 years, the 50th being a jubilee year?
These things are upon us! In 2008, most major banks collapsed with the ones surviving having their debts absorbed by the governments. What do you think is going to happen in 2015? And if they survive that, the year 2022?
Who is we? I'm confused
I reckon on this side of the cross its great to remember that the Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath(Mark 2.27), actually its awesome to remember that Grace is pretty amazing and there is Freedom in having the mind of Christ.
If anything, The last 15 years of being a follower of Christ has told me that Bondage doesn't discriminate. If you are human then you are broken in some way, you have attachments to un helpful things and you get caught up in stuff that that cause distance between us and our creator. Though Jesus will never leave or forsake us we can certainly do a great job of walking away ourselves.
If I fear anything, its removing myself from community, those who would keep me accountable and most of all fall asleep in the light. Becoming religious to the point that law and order and pointing the finger at others become more important than being just as human as Christ was, in the way he interacted with those around him, provided space for those around him that was growth promoting and pointed to relationship that was without oppression.
Maybe I misread your Qs in your original post but as I attempted to answer them this is what came out. I hope what I have written is helpful in some way.
I reckon on this side of the cross its great to remember that the Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath(Mark 2.27), actually its awesome to remember that Grace is pretty amazing and there is Freedom in having the mind of Christ.
If anything, The last 15 years of being a follower of Christ has told me that Bondage doesn't discriminate. If you are human then you are broken in some way, you have attachments to un helpful things and you get caught up in stuff that that cause distance between us and our creator. Though Jesus will never leave or forsake us we can certainly do a great job of walking away ourselves.
If I fear anything, its removing myself from community, those who would keep me accountable and most of all fall asleep in the light. Becoming religious to the point that law and order and pointing the finger at others become more important than being just as human as Christ was, in the way he interacted with those around him, provided space for those around him that was growth promoting and pointed to relationship that was without oppression.
Maybe I misread your Qs in your original post but as I attempted to answer them this is what came out. I hope what I have written is helpful in some way.