PURGATORY DOES NOT EXIST - IT IS A FALSE TEACHING BY THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH

[notuptome]

Simply put the vicar of Christ is the Comforter Who is the Holy Spirit. For the Roman Catholic church to create the impression that the pope as a man can be the vicar of Christ is gross error and considered blasphemy by many.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Alligator]

Simply put the vicar of Christ is the Comforter Who is the Holy Spirit. For the Roman Catholic church to create the impression that the pope as a man can be the vicar of Christ is gross error and considered blasphemy by many.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

amen to that

 

[Last]

So you are saying that the Catholic church does not teach that the pope is the vicar of Christ?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Your question has nothing to do with the post you made earlier. Vicar of Christ does not mean the Pope is God.

 

[Last]

Without prejudice.

THE CATECHISM SIMPLY EXPLAINED by CANON CAFFERATA - the official document of the beliefs quote the following.

Conclusion = According to the RCC teaching, as per the articles above, quoted from their official doctrine, also available on the internet, Jesus = God

Jesus is God, Jesus.

= Vicar = Pope = Father. Am I wrong if I quote the RCC doctrine?

Nothing you quote support Jesus = Vicar

My writing is based on facts and is not a blatant lie as you utter. Get your facts first before you tackle me.

You mean try to learn what words mean.

 

[Last]

What is the definition of the term vicar? It appears that you are parsing your terms here.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Catholics do not believe the Pope is God. Vicar means a representative. In fact, every bishop acts as a vicar.

 

[Linda70]

Your question has nothing to do with the post you made earlier. Vicar of Christ does not mean the Pope is God.

The pope is said to have the authority to establish doctrine. When he speaks officially, ex-cathedra, his declarations are considered to be infallible. The New York Catechism says: "The pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on earth ... By divine right the pope has supreme and full power in faith and morals over each and every pastor and his flock. He is the true Vicar of Christ, the head of the entire church, the father and teacher of all Christians. He is the infallible ruler, the founder of dogmas, the author of and the judge of councils; the universal ruler of truth, the arbiter of the world, the supreme judge of heaven and earth, the judge of all, being judged by no one, God himself on earth" (Loraine Boettner, Roman Catholicism, p. 127)

 

[notuptome]

Catholics do not believe the Pope is God. Vicar means a representative. In fact, every bishop acts as a vicar.

Actually it means one in place of. Same thing when we see the vicarious atonement of Christ on the cross of Calvary. Christ took my place on the cross and died in my place that I might live eternally in Him. Same root word in both cases.

The true vicar of Christ is the Comforter who is the Holy Spirit. To make the pope the vicar of Christ is to make him the Holy Spirit and co-equal in the Godhead.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Last]

Actually it means one in place of.

When vicars were sent out in the ancient world, they were sent as representatives, in place of the ruler.

Same thing when we see the vicarious atonement of Christ on the cross of Calvary. Christ took my place on the cross and died in my place that I might live eternally in Him. Same root word in both cases.

The true vicar of Christ is the Comforter who is the Holy Spirit. To make the pope the vicar of Christ is to make him the Holy Spirit and co-equal in the Godhead.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

That's a red herring I won't bite. You claimed we think the Pope is God and that is not so.

 

[Last]

The pope is said to have the authority to establish doctrine. When he speaks officially, ex-cathedra, his declarations are considered to be infallible.

Just as it was with the apostles. That does not mean he is God.

The New York Catechism says: "The pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on earth ... By divine right the pope has supreme and full power in faith and morals over each and every pastor and his flock. He is the true Vicar of Christ, the head of the entire church, the father and teacher of all Christians. He is the infallible ruler, the founder of dogmas, the author of and the judge of councils; the universal ruler of truth, the arbiter of the world, the supreme judge of heaven and earth, the judge of all, being judged by no one, God himself on earth" (Loraine Boettner, Roman Catholicism, p. 127)

I believe that quote is made up. There is no New York Catechism.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Just as it was with the apostles. That does not mean he is God.



I believe that quote is made up. There is no New York Catechism.

Let's just go with a simple one that is straight from the bible. And I was in a Catholic church for 5 years.

What do your pastor go by in your church ?

I have not seen a Catholic church that their pastor went by another title besides father. Did you know in the bible the Lord specifically told the Apostles not to go by this title, for there is only one father, He who is in heaven.

 

[Last]

Let's just go with a simple one that is straight from the bible. And I was in a Catholic church for 5 years.

What do your pastor go by in your church ?

I have not seen a Catholic church that their pastor went by another title besides father. Did you know in the bible the Lord specifically told the Apostles not to go by this title, for there is only one father, He who is in heaven.

I am not sure what this had to do with my post. What Jesus was using was hyperbole, he was not being literal. If we do not call anyone but God 'father', then it loses its meaning. Furthermore, this command would mean we could not call anyone Mr. or Mrs., or teacher.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I am not sure what this had to do with my post. What Jesus was using was hyperbole, he was not being literal. If we do not call anyone but God 'father', then it loses its meaning. Furthermore, this command would mean we could not call anyone Mr. or Mrs., or teacher.

This was to be taken literal. Saying it is not is the false teaching from the Catholic church to make it acceptable.

He said you only have one spiritual father, and therefore they were not to go by that title for they are not our spiritual fathers. They are only other fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.

The purpose of this was to show how even simple commands by our Lord was changed in the Catholic church to make them acceptable. People forget that even though the Catholic church was one of the first denominations started, it was also the first to be corrupted and defiled. If it is not in scripture it is not of God, if it is in scripture it should be followed.

We have one earthly father, and only one Spiritual Father.....The pope or catholic preachers do not replace Him.

God our Spiritual Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ as our high priest and mediator is all we need. We do not need another in that order.

That scripture does not say anything about Mr. or Mrs., I don't know where you get that from. It says father, teacher, or rabbi. Which is all referred to the one and same Spiritual Father, Rabbi, Teacher.

The word came from God, therefore He is our one Spiritual Father, Spiritual Rabbi, and Spiritual Teacher. Nobody is to use these titles for that would put them in place of the Lord our God.

The Apostles were placed as our brothers and sisters in Christ that were to hand the gospel message down to us, and then we are called to hand the gospel down to others who come after us. Not to put ourselves in higher positions than others, or claim to have more authority than others. We are all equal brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

[TruthFromFrank]

I have a theory about what happens when you die. I have no evidence to back this up by the way its just a theory...tell me what you think!
my mum and dad have both passed away to be with The Lord and I sometimes wonder about them. I believe that they are "in their spirits" now with The Lord in Glory ( by interior spirits I mean in conscious reality to them right now"
i had my appendix removed a few years back now and as I was lying there talking to the girl in the pre op room she told me that she was giving me my anaesthetic and I would slowly drop off to sleep. To my recollection those words were the last thing I had any consciousness of until I was awakening two hours later in recovery having had the operation. For the rest of the world time had continued on everyone with their jobs and routines but for me time was suspended it was as if the two events of falling asleep and weakening in recovery were-seamless and instantaneous , much like falling asleep each night (only without any dreams or toilet trips lol).
now I think that that is what it is like for my mum and dad. They await the ressurection of the dead like all those who have passed away, but to them, in their consciousness that ressurection will be instantaneous, without any sense of a time lag....as they are now in eternity outside of time. To them "absence from the body" will literally be "presence with The Lord".
when Christ said to the thief on the cross "this day you will be with me in paradise" to the thief thats exactly what it will be...no passing of time just instantaneously present in eternity with The Lord.
well that just my wee theory..!

It will be nice if everyone who dies goes to heaven straight away. Reality however is that everybody that dies does not know God or had a good relationship with God. Do you think it is fair that such a person be taken up to heaven? I am sure you would not want the murderer to be sitting next to mom, if she is in heaven. This would also mean that God's laws means nothing as the person who striven to be a good person and the person who ignored the Commandments of God are both in heaven? I do not think that this will be the case. The Bible teaches us that Jesus is currently busy with two things namely to build the new Jerusalem and to do the judgement so see who passed the criteria to be accepted into heaven or not. This judgement will be finished just before He comes to this earth on a cloud to resurrect the saved - dead ones, and to give new bodies to the saved - alive ones. This is the similar experience you are referring to by awakening the next morning after a nights rest or after the operation. There will be no awake-period in between. So to believe that your mom and dad are in heaven is not true. They will however be resurrected at the first coming of Jesus Christ if they are saved before the millennium or after the millennium if they are not saved. Only Jesus will sort the good from the bad and that is what He is busy doing right now. With regards to the reference you made to the thief on the cross, it is believed that the translators made an error with the placement of the comma which means that Jesus said to the thief. Today, I say to you, you will be in heaven and not today you will be heaven. The other problem here is also that Jesus still had to go to the grave on the same day He was talking to the thief and Jesus would not have been in heaven for a couple of days. So there is a slight problem here. I trust that I have explained it in a manner you could understand. If you do need scripture for any of my statements, please ask and I will provide.

 

[TruthFromFrank]

Without prejudice.

THE CATECHISM SIMPLY EXPLAINED by CANON CAFFERATA - the official document of the beliefs quote the following.

Conclusion = According to the RCC teaching, as per the articles above, quoted from their official doctrine, also available on the internet, Jesus = God

Jesus is God, Jesus.



Nothing you quote support Jesus = Vicar



You mean try to learn what words mean.

This is exactly what is happening in churches today - IGNORING THE FACTS.
I have given the facts but you were so busy being negative that you did not see what I have written. Here it is AGAIN to prove what the Roman Catholic Church HAS SAID IN THEIR CATECHISM ALSO THE OFFICIAL DOCUMENT OF THE CHURCH.
THE CATECHISM SIMPLY EXPLAINED by CANON CAFFERATA - the official document of the beliefs quote the following.

Article 85. Who is the head of the Catholic Church? 1. The head of the Catholic Church is 2. Jesus Christ our Lord. Naturally, since He founded it. But Jesus Christ is now in heaven. We cannot see Him, talk with Him, consult Him. His visible Church on earth must, therefore, like every other visible society, have a head here on earth to exercise the ruling functions of Jesus Christ. Our Lord arranged for such a visible head.
Article 86. Has the Church a visible head on earth? The 1. Church has a visible 1. head on earth, the 6. Bishop of Rome, who is the 4. vicar of Christ. A 4. vicar is one who supplies the place of another and performs an office on his behalf. The answer means that the 5. Pope, who is the 6. Bishop of Rome, holds the 1. headship of the Church by Christ's authority and in His name.The proof that the 5. Pope is the visible 1. head of the Church is given in the next two questions.
Article 87. Why is the Bishop of Rome the head of the Church? The 6. Bishop of Rome is the 1. head of the Church because he is the successor of St Peter, whom Christ appointed to be the head of the Church.
Article 88. How do you know that Christ appointed St Peter to be the head of the Church? I know that Christ appointed St Peter to be the head of the Church because Christ said to him, "Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And to thee I will give the keys of the kingdom of heaven."
Article 89. What is the Bishop of Rome called? The 6. Bishop of Rome is called the 5. Pope, which word signifies 7. "Father". Article 90. Is the Pope the spiritual Father of all Christians? The 5. Pope is the 7. spiritual Father of all Christians. In a family the father is the head.
Article 92. Is the Pope infallible? The 5. Pope is 8.infallible.
Article 93. What do you mean when you say that the Pope is infallible? When I say that the 5. Pope is
8. infallible I mean that the 5. Pope cannot err when, as Shepherd and Teacher of all Christians, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church. ............... You see, the 5. Pope is the 9. Supreme teacher. Since Christ is 3. God......St Peter and his successors ....... all these texts make clear that the 5. Pope is 8. Infallible.


I have just proven to you that ....._

1. Head of Church = 2. Jesus = 3. God = 4. Vicar = 5. Pope = 6. Bishop of Rome= 7. Spiritual Father = 8. Infallible = 9. Supreme Teacher, ALL ON THE SAME LEVEL

.....according to the Roman Catholic teaching. Look at all the accentuated, numbered and coloured text and how they confirm the links to each other to prove my statement. AM I WRONG IN READING AND UNDERSTANDING THE ROMAN CATHOLIC DOCTRINE LIKE THAT? I DON'T THINK SO. YOU NEED TO TAKE THE COVERS FROM YOUR EYES AND READ PROPERLY. IF THIS DOES NOT CONVINCE YOU THAT I AM RIGHT, THEN YOU HAVE A SERIOUS PROBLEM THAT NEEDS TO BE ATTENDED TO.

 

[Kaycie]

Luke 16:19-31 explains this in great detail. There is a holding place for the righteous until the judgement day, and a holding place for the unrighteous until the judgement day- but there is no purgatory. Catholics teach many things that are not true- including the teaching that you can go to a place after death to get more purification in order to enter heaven. This is kind of like the same thought process as those who believe in reincarnation- that somehow after this life I will have a second chance to make things right, therefore I can enjoy sin or at least partial sin now and make up for it later. Do not be deceived. Either you are in Christ and have all your sins washed away, or you are not in Christ and have none of your sins washed away. Whatever state you die in, it is now sealed for all eternity. Paradise is not heaven. We will not enter the new heaven until after judgement day. The unrighteous will not enter the new earth (hell) until after the judgement day. You have to die while IN Christ. Those who die in Christ will be with Him forever. (1Thessalonians 4:16) How does one get INTO Christ? Romans 6:3 says we are baptized into Christ. How can we get baptized into Christ after we die? We can't. Don't be deceived, you cannot purify yourself with any deed, thought, or word- only Christ's blood purifies us from sin- and we cannot receive that after we die. There is no purification after death called purgatory.

 

[ThomistColin]

Let's just go with a simple one that is straight from the bible. And I was in a Catholic church for 5 years.

What do your pastor go by in your church ?

I have not seen a Catholic church that their pastor went by another title besides father. Did you know in the bible the Lord specifically told the Apostles not to go by this title, for there is only one father, He who is in heaven.

Then the Apostles disobeyed, for Peter uses the title, and Paul uses it frequently.

 

[ThomistColin]

This is exactly what is happening in churches today - IGNORING THE FACTS.
I have given the facts but you were so busy being negative that you did not see what I have written. Here it is AGAIN to prove what the Roman Catholic Church HAS SAID IN THEIR CATECHISM ALSO THE OFFICIAL DOCUMENT OF THE CHURCH.
THE CATECHISM SIMPLY EXPLAINED by CANON CAFFERATA - the official document of the beliefs quote the following.

Article 85. Who is the head of the Catholic Church? 1. The head of the Catholic Church is 2. Jesus Christ our Lord. Naturally, since He founded it. But Jesus Christ is now in heaven. We cannot see Him, talk with Him, consult Him. His visible Church on earth must, therefore, like every other visible society, have a head here on earth to exercise the ruling functions of Jesus Christ. Our Lord arranged for such a visible head.
Article 86. Has the Church a visible head on earth? The 1. Church has a visible 1. head on earth, the 6. Bishop of Rome, who is the 4. vicar of Christ. A 4. vicar is one who supplies the place of another and performs an office on his behalf. The answer means that the 5. Pope, who is the 6. Bishop of Rome, holds the 1. headship of the Church by Christ's authority and in His name.The proof that the 5. Pope is the visible 1. head of the Church is given in the next two questions.
Article 87. Why is the Bishop of Rome the head of the Church? The 6. Bishop of Rome is the 1. head of the Churchbecause he is the successor of St Peter, whom Christ appointed to be the head of the Church.
Article 88. How do you know that Christ appointed St Peter to be the head of the Church? I know that Christ appointed St Peter to be the head of the Church because Christ said to him, "Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And to thee I will give the keys of the kingdom of heaven."
Article 89. What is the Bishop of Rome called? The 6. Bishop of Rome is called the 5. Pope, which word signifies 7. "Father". Article 90. Is the Pope the spiritual Father of all Christians?The 5. Pope is the 7. spiritual Father of all Christians. In a family the father is the head.
Article 92. Is the Pope infallible? The 5. Pope is 8.infallible.
Article 93. What do you mean when you say that the Pope is infallible? When I say that the 5. Pope is
8. infallible I mean thatthe 5. Pope cannot err when, as Shepherd and Teacher of all Christians, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church. ............... You see, the 5. Pope is the 9. Supreme teacher. Since Christ is 3. God......St Peter and his successors ....... all these texts make clear that the 5. Pope is 8. Infallible.


I have just proven to you that ....._

1. Head of Church = 2. Jesus = 3. God = 4. Vicar = 5. Pope = 6. Bishop of Rome= 7. Spiritual Father = 8. Infallible = 9. Supreme Teacher, ALL ON THE SAME LEVEL

.....according to the Roman Catholic teaching. Look at all the accentuated, numbered and coloured text and how they confirm the links to each other to prove my statement. AM I WRONG IN READING AND UNDERSTANDING THE ROMAN CATHOLIC DOCTRINE LIKE THAT? I DON'T THINK SO. YOU NEED TO TAKE THE COVERS FROM YOUR EYES AND READ PROPERLY. IF THIS DOES NOT CONVINCE YOU THAT I AM RIGHT, THEN YOU HAVE A SERIOUS PROBLEM THAT NEEDS TO BE ATTENDED TO.

First, you numbering system is erroneous. Secondly, your use of capitalization continually ignores where the Catholic Church places emphasis, and also creates entirely different sentences. I wonder if by using your method, I could find out that you actually worship Satan? Of course I can, because all I need is find one quote and place emphasis on certain words, leading the eyes away from what is actually stated.

 

[TruthFromFrank]

First, you numbering system is erroneous. Secondly, your use of capitalization continually ignores where the Catholic Church places emphasis, and also creates entirely different sentences. I wonder if by using your method, I could find out that you actually worship Satan? Of course I can, because all I need is find one quote and place emphasis on certain words, leading the eyes away from what is actually stated.

Sure, you will find fault in anything that anybody writes because that is your style and you want to defend your church. If something is not to your liking, everybody is wrong but you. I wrote it in a manner that certain people who argued AFTER I have given the facts, to point out how I arrived at my conclusion. The numbers in the doctrines coincides with the numbers in my conclusion. How does pointing out the facts from the Roman Catholic doctrines link me to the worship of Satan? Prove to me that the facts that I have provided from the Roman Catholic doctrines coincides with the Bible and I will believe you as anything that is NOT in line with the Bible, is from Satan. That is also a fact. Do you want some more facts about the Roman Catholic Church? I have plenty.

 

[ThomistColin]

Sure, you will find fault in anything that anybody writes because that is your style and you want to defend your church. If something is not to your liking, everybody is wrong but you. I wrote it in a manner that certain people who argued AFTER I have given the facts, to point out how I arrived at my conclusion. The numbers in the doctrines coincides with the numbers in my conclusion. How does pointing out the facts from the Roman Catholic doctrines link me to the worship of Satan? Prove to me that the facts that I have provided from the Roman Catholic doctrines coincides with the Bible and I will believe you as anything that is NOT in line with the Bible, is from Satan. That is also a fact. Do you want some more facts about the Roman Catholic Church? I have plenty.

You read wrongly. I said I could prove you worship Satan in a hypothetical by omitting and emphasizing using font choices and color. You are using psychology to draw people's eyes to certain parts, forcing them to ignore the rest.

I'm not saying you worship Satan, I'm saying that by quoting only parts and emphasizing others, anyone can twist words.

 

[TruthFromFrank]

It is a Biblical text.

I am still waiting for the proof that it is a Biblical text. You are quick to argue but fail to provide proof.