The new covenant with Christ Jesus

[cfultz3]

here we go again....how many people in the new testament will be saved by speaking against the law?

not one......would they not be considered the least in the Kingdom from the Heavens (Kingdom of Heaven)?

 

[Elin]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

Heb 8:13

When God speaks of a “new” covenant, it means
he has made the first one obsolete.
It is now out of date and will soon disappear.

When is Soon?

I would say "has made" answers the question.

Soon means future. Not in the past.

So the NT is lying when it states the old covenant has been made obsolete?

Anyway, "soon" was future 2,000 years ago. Is it still future?

 

[just-me]

OK back to the opening post. There has certainly been enough said to totally derail this covenant that we live.
1st of all the law isn't mentioned in the op.
2nd I am stating the fact the Jesus and our father in heaven will never reverse or make void their motives (His motives)
3rd, there is a very good reason why God instigated what He did in the beginning, and everything between Abraham and Jesus Christ.
*Any part of the plan that is negated (being God's plan, not man's) debunks the entirety.

Galatians 4:3-5
3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
4 But when the fulness of the time was come , God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

One might ask, "Why wasn't Jesus born as soon as Israel broke the covenant with God? What's the purpose for the delay? (if it really was delayed) What's the reason for the time sequence? And last of all, if the old covenant is void, obsolete, and has vanished away, why didn't God conceive Jesus by His Spirit in the garden of Eden? Why put the human race through all that grief?

Highlighted and quoted by Elin *"Any part of the plan that is negated (being God's plan, not man's) debunks the entirety."

That's your rule, not God's.

Where is that stated in Scripture?

You don't get to make rules for God.

Deuteronomy 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger , and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know ; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live .

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said , It is written , Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God

All covenants were consisting of God's Words. There is no covenant in the Bible that consists of words from any other than Him. He is the only one who initiated them, including the new one through Christ. I's with wine in the skins, it's the words of the covenants.

 

[Elin]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

Good point, but Elin hates it when I say that
there are 3 times the word covenant is added in the KJV when Hebrews 8, and 9 are addressing the temple, one made by the hand of man according to God's direction, and the other made by Christ according to God's direction.
verse 13 is one of those times.

Not in my Bible.

Are you saying that

"By calling the covenant 'new,' he has made the first one obsolete;" (Heb 8:13)

is not referring to the Sinaitic covenant being made obsolete?

If that is not what you are saying, what are you saying that is relevant to the Sinaitic covenant
being made obsolete (Heb 8:13)?

 

[cfultz3]

Facetious as this is, it sure speaks volumes. According to post #18 is it any wonder why love is waxing cold? The old covenant is where love (in detail) is endorsed, yet we all say that we fulfill the law by loving God and each other. By what standards do we exact that love if the instructions no longer apply because of a new covenant?

Has not God told us what is good in His sight? Why has He said, 'do not lie'? Does it not hurt the one it was inflicted on? Sure!! So God defined love as something which would not lie.

Has He not also define love in so many other ways? Let us count the ways in which He says, 'love does not....'.

Love is Christ's Law. Why? Because it is God's Law also. All which the LORD said through the Law HANGS upon love.

Therefore, if we reject what God has defined love to be, then how can we concur with the Spirit when He convicts us of not loving?

 

[just-me]

Has not God told us what is good in His sight? Why has He said, 'do not lie'? Does it not hurt the one it was inflicted on? Sure!! So God defined love as something which would not lie.

Has He not also define love in so many other ways? Let us count the ways in which He says, 'love does not....'.

Love is Christ's Law. Why? Because it is God's Law also. All which the LORD said through the Law HANGS upon love.

Therefore, if we reject what God has defined love to be, then how can we concur with the Spirit when He convicts us of not loving?

Well spoken. God's love never fails so we could also call love a promise, or covenant completed through Christ by every word that God has ever spoken. It all ties together.

1 Corinthians 13:8a Love never fails

 

[Elin]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

That is what I repeat that you say.
You say scripture says it IS obsolete, that is not what scripture says.

"Has been made obsolete;"

You say that when God makes a promise that God will sometimes choose to take the promise back, I say God is too trustworthy for that.

You have me confused with someone else.

God sometimes makes conditional promises, conditioned on the performance of the one to whom the promise is made.
If the recipient does not meet the conditions, the promise is no longer in force.

You say you search promises for if we have a part in the relationship with God it gives, and go by whether God keeps it on that, I say with God, we can depend on Him.

You go on with that when scripture uses the word "fulfilled", the meaning of that word is that something can now be thrown out. I say the word means that what was is made complete and we now have it in all it's glory.

You have me confused with someone else.
Yes, the law is complete and we now have it in all its glory in the obedience and righteousness of Christ.

I say the Levi priesthood was used as a priesthood to show the world about Christ,
you say it was something that had to be destroyed because Christ is now the high priest.

You have me confused with someone else.

It has been changed (Heb 7:12).

 

[just-me]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

Not in my Bible.

Are you saying that

"By calling the covenant 'new,' he has made the first one obsolete;" (Heb 8:13)

is not referring to the Sinaitic covenant being made obsolete?

If that is not what you are saying, what are you saying that is relevant to the Sinaitic covenant
being made obsolete (Heb 8:13)?

That verse is not talking about the covenant made with Israel at mount Sinai.
Exodus 24:8 And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said , Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.

 

[Elin]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

all they want is their own covenant with death.

Which is precisely what the law is (Gal 3:10), a ministration of death (2Co 3:7).

Did he teach justification by disobedience to the law?

You don't know?

Did he say the law is a ministration of death or does one cut and paste his words to make it look that way?

Read the passage for yourself.

 

[prove-all]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

this does not happen

"Has been made obsolete;"


and made to come to pass untill this time


[in those days]


now we should go see when in those days are

 

[chubbena]

not one......would they not be considered the least in the Kingdom from the Heavens (Kingdom of Heaven)?

If only "the least in the Kingdom" means "in" the Kingdom.

 

[Elin]

A covenant can be broken because there are two parties involved. One or the other can break the covenant.
With that said, making void, or disannulling
the covenant cannot be done by anybody else except the one who initiated it, and
wrote the terms thereof.

Those are the terms.

It would be better if you didn't wing it, make it up as you go, and got informed.

Start with the nature of contracts.

 

[psychomom]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel [after those days], saith the Lord;

as far as i can tell not yet, after those days

when you read Jeremiah...especially chapters 30, 31, 33...don't you see the prophetic there?
Jeremiah is speaking about the coming of the Lord Jesus there.
he's speaking about the people's problem (sin) and God's Solution...The Redeemer, the Lord Jesus.

Jer 33:14-16
Behold, days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will fulfill the good word which I have spoken concerning the house of Israel and the house of Judah.
In those days and at that time I will cause a righteous Branch of David to spring forth; and He shall execute justice and righteousness on the earth.
In those days Judah will be saved and Jerusalem will dwell in safety; and this is the name by which she will be called: the LORD is our righteousness.

 

[Elin]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

Israel today still has "a partial hardening". One that leads to war and killings.

"Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”; “and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” Romans 11:25-27

Many people (Christians as well) don't believe that
the Abrahamic Covenant applies to Israel today. But know that
It's an everlasting covenant.

The Abrahamic covenant was conditioned on their total consecration to God (circumcised heart) symbolized by circumcision of the flesh.

It lasts only as long as the conditions are kept.

God is in covenant with no one, I repeat NO ONE, who rejects his Son.

 

[chubbena]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

You don't know?


Read the passage for yourself.

Or one may read where he said that the law is holy, righteous and good and that it's not the law but the sin in him that brought death perhaps he could come to understand what the ministry that brought death means.

 

[psychomom]

i've observed a tendency to say that those who adhere to NT teaching that the New Covenant
has made the Old obsolete
are rejecting the Old Testament.

can we just not confuse the two?
the Mosaic Covenant and the Old Testament writings (the Law and the Prophets, if you will)
are not the same things.

God's Word is all beautiful to His people.

 

[Elin]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

Regarding the topic of discussion, the old covenant was based on law, not grace.

Expanding the discussion to Abraham, it was grace that credited faith to him as righteousness.

All unilateral covenants are of free grace, they require no performance by the participant.

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through Moses: Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates - and - you shall love your neighbor as yourself.

In these last days he has spoken to us by his Son: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.

Again, some probably think "hang" means "executed" or "terminated" and the same way "fulfill" means "get rid of".

Were you addressing my post above?

I was addressing to the interpretation and application of Hebrews 1:1-2.

Then you weren't addressing my post above.

 

[psychomom]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

Or one may read where he said that the law is holy, righteous and good and that it's not the law but the sin in him that brought death perhaps he could come to understand what the ministry that brought death means.

we can also read Rom 5:20 which tells us the Law came in that the offense might abound...
and where the sin did abound, the grace did overabound. (YLT)

 

[Elin]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

The NT states the old covenant is obsolete (Heb 8:13).
That is all I say that is obsolete.

Keep in mind that the word "covenant" (italicized in the KJV) is an added word when
the writer of Hebrews is talking about something "new."

Stop it with the shoe horning already.

In Heb 8:7-13, the writer is talking without interruption about the "new covenant,"
and is quoting what is called the "new covenant" in Jer 31:31-34.

You could use a basic hermeneutics class.

You are very uninformed, and are teaching misinformation on the old and new covenants.

 

[prove-all]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

Jer 33:14-16
Behold, days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will fulfill the good word which I have spoken concerning

the house of Israel and the house of Judah.


-the house of Isreal is still lost from world view,


the two nations come together later when sticks come together.


In those days and at that time I will cause a righteous Branch of David to spring forth;

and He shall execute justice and righteousness on the earth.


-did Christ execute judgement on anyone the first time here,

he will execute justice when he returns.

In those days Judah will be saved and Jerusalem will dwell in safety;
and this is the name by which she will be called:

- does Jerusalem be in safety yet, the city of peace will not have till return.


in those days , after those days, has not happened yet


at that time we will all know the Lord