Here is another passage for the law/sabbath keepers to explain away........

[kennethcadwell]

I say of my life what Paul said about his
Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Then he describes the difference between a faithful believer and a carnally minded nonbeliever in Romans 8:5-7.
"For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."

Lawless situations create corruption a chaos. A society that abides by laws that are good will have peace. God's law is perfect, and Pharisaical law is skewed and repressive. That's why Jesus had a problem with them. Capital punishment for murder deteriorates the acts of murder.

We are to contend for the faith by spiritually killing the corruption of false doctrine.
"And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death ; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in . So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee." Deuteronomy 13:5

"Wash you, make you clean ; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;" Isaiah 1:16

Under our Lord and Savior, through His perfect love shown to us we are not to put to death anybody if it can be avoided.

His commandments given to us are all about love, and forgiveness under grace.
The reason why we needed Jesus as our Lord and Savior is because how caught up in sin we all have become. Some Christians today do just like the Jews did in the past put such a high emphasis on some sins, but let others slide by as if they do not matter or are not costly. Which lead to punishments handed out to only certain sins, and not others, instead of the true meaning of the law to lead away from all sins.

Our Lord tells us the least of sinners ( smallest sin ) will perish just like the worst of sinners if they do not repent of their sins.

Luke 13:3
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.



The OT through the mosaic law did side with putting people to death for certain sins, the NT does not. Our Lord Jesus did not tell us to only love Him the Lord our God, and love our neighbor as self. He also told us;

Matthew 5:44-45
But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
[SUP] [/SUP]that you may be children of your Father in heaven.

Matthew 6:14-15
[SUP] [/SUP]For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
[SUP] [/SUP]But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

( I personally like the KJV for this scripture, because it does not say only if the trespass was done personally to you as newer versions of the bible do making hatred and revenge acceptable: I can hate you for what you did because it was not done to me, or it is ok for me to say you should face the death penalty because you did not do it to me. ) These are both false statements people use to justify hatred or killing, which is not the way of our Lord.

 

[royalscot]

Under our Lord and Savior, through His perfect love shown to us we are not to put to death anybody if it can be avoided.

His commandments given to us are all about love, and forgiveness under grace.
The reason why we needed Jesus as our Lord and Savior is because how caught up in sin we all have become. Some Christians today do just like the Jews did in the past put such a high emphasis on some sins, but let others slide by as if they do not matter or are not costly. Which lead to punishments handed out to only certain sins, and not others, instead of the true meaning of the law to lead away from all sins.

Our Lord tells us the least of sinners ( smallest sin ) will perish just like the worst of sinners if they do not repent of their sins.

Luke 13:3
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.



The OT through the mosaic law did side with putting people to death for certain sins, the NT does not. Our Lord Jesus did not tell us to only love Him the Lord our God, and love our neighbor as self. He also told us;

Matthew 5:44-45
But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
that you may be children of your Father in heaven.

Matthew 6:14-15
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

( I personally like the KJV for this scripture, because it does not say only if the trespass was done personally to you as newer versions of the bible do making hatred and revenge acceptable: I can hate you for what you did because it was not done to me, or it is ok for me to say you should face the death penalty because you did not do it to me. ) These are both false statements people use to justify hatred or killing, which is not the way of our Lord.

[SUP]this happened after pentecost. when jesus was back in heaven. 6 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.1
[/SUP]

when did cornelius repent.
[SUP]1 Now there was a man at Caesarea named Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian cohort,2 a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, and gave many alms to the Jewish people and prayed to God continually.3 About the ninth hour of the day he clearly saw in a vision an angel of God who had just come in and said to him, "Cornelius!"4 And fixing his gaze on him and being much alarmed, he said, "What is it, Lord?" And he said to him, "Your prayers and alms have ascended as a memorial before God.5 Now dispatch some men to Joppa and send for a man named Simon, who is also called Peter;6 he is staying with a tanner named Simon, whose house is by the sea."7 When the angel who was speaking to him had left, he summoned two of his servants and a devout soldier of those who were his personal attendants,8 and after he had explained everything to them, he sent them to Joppa.
9 On the next day, as they were on their way and approaching the city, Peter went up on the housetop about the sixth hour to pray.10 But he became hungry and was desiring to eat; but while they were making preparations, he fell into a trance;11 and he *saw the sky opened up, and an object like a great sheet coming down, lowered by four corners to the ground,12 and there were in it all kinds of four-footed animals and crawling creatures of the earth and birds of the air.13 A voice came to him, "Get up, Peter, kill and eat!"14 But Peter said, "By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything unholy and unclean."15 Again a voice came to him a second time, "What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy."16 This happened three times, and immediately the object was taken up into the sky.
17 Now while Peter was greatly perplexed in mind as to what the vision which he had seen might be, behold, the men who had been sent by Cornelius, having asked directions for Simon's house, appeared at the gate;18 and calling out, they were asking whether Simon, who was also called Peter, was staying there.19 While Peter was reflecting on the vision, the Spirit said to him, "Behold, three men are looking for you.20 But get up, go downstairs and accompany them without misgivings, for I have sent them Myself."21 Peter went down to the men and said, "Behold, I am the one you are looking for; what is the reason for which you have come?"22 They said, "Cornelius, a centurion, a righteous and God-fearing man well spoken of by the entire nation of the Jews, was divinely directed by a holy angel to send for you to come to his house and hear a message from you."23 So he invited them in and gave them lodging.
Peter at Caesarea
And on the next day he got up and went away with them, and some of the brethren from Joppa accompanied him.24 On the following day he entered Caesarea. Now Cornelius was waiting for them and had called together his relatives and close friends.25 When Peter entered, Cornelius met him, and fell at his feet and worshiped him.26 But Peter raised him up, saying, "Stand up; I too am just a man."27 As he talked with him, he entered and *found many people assembled.28 And he said to them, "You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a man who is a Jew to associate with a foreigner or to visit him; and yet God has shown me that I should not call any man unholy or unclean.29 That is why I came without even raising any objection when I was sent for. So I ask for what reason you have sent for me."
30 Cornelius said, "Four days ago to this hour, I was praying in my house during the ninth hour; and behold, a man stood before me in shining garments,31 and he *said, 'Cornelius, your prayer has been heard and your alms have been remembered before God.32 Therefore send to Joppa and invite Simon, who is also called Peter, to come to you; he is staying at the house of Simon the tanner by the sea.'33 So I sent for you immediately, and you have been kind enough to come. Now then, we are all here present before God to hear all that you have been commanded by the Lord."
Gentiles Hear Good News
34 Opening his mouth, Peter said:
"I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality,35 but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him.36 The word which He sent to the sons of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all)--37 you yourselves know the thing which took place throughout all Judea, starting from Galilee, after the baptism which John proclaimed.38 You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.39 We are witnesses of all the things He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They also put Him to death by hanging Him on a cross.40 God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible,41 not to all the people, but to witnesses who were chosen beforehand by God, that is, to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead.42 And He ordered us to preach to the people, and solemnly to testify that this is the One who has been appointed by God as Judge of the living and the dead.43 Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered,47 "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?"48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then
[/SUP]

 

[just-me]

It's nonsense to keep the law since Jesus Christ is the end/purpose of the law and He fulfilled it...

The definitive instructions for loving God and our neighbor are written in the law God gave to Israel through Moses. If we are to love God's way, it is God's law of love that we must follow in principle.
Please read Deuteronomy 6:1-6 and Leviticus 19:15-18 and then say truthfully that this doesn't apply to your life because you have faith in Christ. People seem to not get it that a covenant is an agreement between two or more parties. Christ has done His part, is it not right for us to reciprocate to His divine will as we do our part?

Romans 3:31 KJV

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid : yea, we establish the law.

This is not nonsense. Finishing the law means there is nothing further that needs to be done to complete all of God's plan from the beginning to the end.

 

[Apostol2013]

Oh my!! To serve the law? How would it be possible to serve a law? Now, when the veil was split at the moment Christ gave up the ghost at His crucifixion it is an "old veil". And Christ has become a veil? The Holy Spirit does not lead us to understanding now, but is an establishment of the spirit? You need scripture!!!

hebrews 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

 

[Apostol2013]

2Co 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: View more

2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. View more

2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. View more

2Co 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. View more

 

[Apostol2013]

Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

 

[just-me]

Under our Lord and Savior, through His perfect love shown to us we are not to put to death anybody if it can be avoided.

His commandments given to us are all about love, and forgiveness under grace.
The reason why we needed Jesus as our Lord and Savior is because how caught up in sin we all have become. Some Christians today do just like the Jews did in the past put such a high emphasis on some sins, but let others slide by as if they do not matter or are not costly. Which lead to punishments handed out to only certain sins, and not others, instead of the true meaning of the law to lead away from all sins.

Our Lord tells us the least of sinners ( smallest sin ) will perish just like the worst of sinners if they do not repent of their sins.

Luke 13:3
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.



The OT through the mosaic law did side with putting people to death for certain sins, the NT does not. Our Lord Jesus did not tell us to only love Him the Lord our God, and love our neighbor as self. He also told us;

Matthew 5:44-45
But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
that you may be children of your Father in heaven.

Matthew 6:14-15
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

( I personally like the KJV for this scripture, because it does not say only if the trespass was done personally to you as newer versions of the bible do making hatred and revenge acceptable: I can hate you for what you did because it was not done to me, or it is ok for me to say you should face the death penalty because you did not do it to me. ) These are both false statements people use to justify hatred or killing, which is not the way of our Lord.

There is a difference between murder and killing.
Psalm 94:6 KJV They slay the widow and the stranger, and murder the fatherless.

There is no place in the New Testament that specifically says capital punishment is right or wrong. However, there are verses that seem to touch on the subject and support it. Let's take a look at them within their context.

Romans 13:1-4, "Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore he who resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same; for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath upon the one who practices evil."

Acts 25:10-11, "But Paul said, “I am standing before Caesar’s tribunal, where I ought to be tried. I have done no wrong to the Jews, as you also very well know. “If, then, I am a wrongdoer and have committed anything worthy of death, I do not refuse to die; but if none of those things is true of which these men accuse me, no one can hand me over to them. I appeal to Caesar.”

Regarding Romans 13:1-4, the Christian is clearly taught to be in subjection to the governing authorities. This is a provision for harmony. Though a government may be oppressive, by the preaching of the gospel, governments are changed. But, as we look at verse four, we see the comment that the governing authority "bear(s) the sword," and that it is "an avenger who brings wrath upon the one who practices evil." The question is: What is meant by "bear the sword"? Let's take a look at some commentaries. If the church feels it wrong to exact capable punishment, then they have a right to petition the government according to the 1st amendment. I murder increases in the community because of this petition, it is a just reward.

The sword is a symbol of the power delegated to governing authorities to enforce acceptable social conduct. Here we have the biblical basis for the use of force by government for the maintenance of law and order. The power to punish has been delegated by God to those who rule.

Though “the sword” might possibly be understood as only the familiar symbol of power, yet the mention of it may be taken to imply the apostle’s recognition of the legitimacy of capital punishment, such as he also expressed distinctly," So, it seems rather clear that the idea of capital punishment is sufficiently included in the phrase "bear the sword." After all, the sword is most definitely an instrument of discipline; and in the Roman culture, it killed. In Acts 25:10-11

The charges were serious enough to demand a death penalty. If the accusations were true, Paul said, he was willing to die.

The right of appeal to the supreme power, in case of life and death, was secured by an ancient law to every Roman citizen, and continued under the empire.

Done something for which I deserve the death penalty may be rendered as done something which should cause me to be killed” or “ . . . for which I should be punished by being killed.” The following clause, do not ask to escape it, may accordingly be rendered as “do not ask not to be killed” or “do not ask to escape death.” Paul does not deny the right of the state to execute people. Instead of denouncing capital punishment, Paul assumes its validity.

It seems clear that the New Testament does not denounce the idea of capital punishment but instead assumes the right of the state to use it.

 

[just-me]

Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

Concerning the temple ordinances defined in the law. Old was physical, new is spiritual. We can see the truth of it all through the Spirit given to us via God's grace.

 

[royalscot]

The definitive instructions for loving God and our neighbor are written in the law God gave to Israel through Moses. If we are to love God's way, it is God's law of love that we must follow in principle.
Please read Deuteronomy 6:1-6 and Leviticus 19:15-18 and then say truthfully that this doesn't apply to your life because you have faith in Christ. People seem to not get it that a covenant is an agreement between two or more parties. Christ has done His part, is it not right for us to reciprocate to His divine will as we do our part?

Romans 3:31 KJV

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid : yea, we establish the law.

This is not nonsense. Finishing the law means there is nothing further that needs to be done to complete all of God's plan from the beginning to the end.

[SUP]21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it---22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
[/SUP]
[SUP]9 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,30 since God is one---who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.

r
[SUP]5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
[/SUP]omans 4[/SUP]
The Promise Realized Through Faith
[SUP]13 For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith.14 For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void.15 For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression.
16 That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring---not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,17 as it is written, "I have made you the father of many nations"---in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist.18 In hope he believed against hope, that he should become the father of many nations, as he had been told, "So shall your offspring be."19 He did not weaken in faith when he considered his own body, which was as good as dead (since he was about a hundred years old), or when he considered the barrenness of Sarah's womb.20 No distrust made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God,21 fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised.22 That is why his faith was "counted to him as righteousness."23 But the words "it was counted to him" were not written for his sake alone,24 but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord,25 who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our
[/SUP]

 

[kennethcadwell]

There is a difference between murder and killing.
Psalm 94:6 KJV They slay the widow and the stranger, and murder the fatherless.

There is no place in the New Testament that specifically says capital punishment is right or wrong. However, there are verses that seem to touch on the subject and support it. Let's take a look at them within their context.

Romans 13:1-4, "Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore he who resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same; for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath upon the one who practices evil."

Acts 25:10-11, "But Paul said, “I am standing before Caesar’s tribunal, where I ought to be tried. I have done no wrong to the Jews, as you also very well know. “If, then, I am a wrongdoer and have committed anything worthy of death, I do not refuse to die; but if none of those things is true of which these men accuse me, no one can hand me over to them. I appeal to Caesar.”

Regarding Romans 13:1-4, the Christian is clearly taught to be in subjection to the governing authorities. This is a provision for harmony. Though a government may be oppressive, by the preaching of the gospel, governments are changed. But, as we look at verse four, we see the comment that the governing authority "bear(s) the sword," and that it is "an avenger who brings wrath upon the one who practices evil." The question is: What is meant by "bear the sword"? Let's take a look at some commentaries. If the church feels it wrong to exact capable punishment, then they have a right to petition the government according to the 1st amendment. I murder increases in the community because of this petition, it is a just reward.

The sword is a symbol of the power delegated to governing authorities to enforce acceptable social conduct. Here we have the biblical basis for the use of force by government for the maintenance of law and order. The power to punish has been delegated by God to those who rule.

Though “the sword” might possibly be understood as only the familiar symbol of power, yet the mention of it may be taken to imply the apostle’s recognition of the legitimacy of capital punishment, such as he also expressed distinctly," So, it seems rather clear that the idea of capital punishment is sufficiently included in the phrase "bear the sword." After all, the sword is most definitely an instrument of discipline; and in the Roman culture, it killed. In Acts 25:10-11

The charges were serious enough to demand a death penalty. If the accusations were true, Paul said, he was willing to die.

The right of appeal to the supreme power, in case of life and death, was secured by an ancient law to every Roman citizen, and continued under the empire.

Done something for which I deserve the death penalty may be rendered as done something which should cause me to be killed” or “ . . . for which I should be punished by being killed.” The following clause, do not ask to escape it, may accordingly be rendered as “do not ask not to be killed” or “do not ask to escape death.” Paul does not deny the right of the state to execute people. Instead of denouncing capital punishment, Paul assumes its validity.

It seems clear that the New Testament does not denounce the idea of capital punishment but instead assumes the right of the state to use it.

We are to be subject to the governing authorities unless they contradict His word.

You say it does not denounce capital punishment, but with what our Lord says I would disagree with you.

They are already in prison serving their punishment for the murder they did, putting them to death by the death penalty does not show forgiveness, does not show love, and adds to their punishment. Keeping them in prison for life will keep others safe from them incase they go on believing what they did was not wrong. Plus it gives time for them to be ministered to, like our Lord said we are to do, and give them time to think about what they did and to hopefully come to repent of it and come to the Lord.

If you automatically go after the death penalty for the crime of murder, and do not give the person the chance to be ministered to, and give a chance for them to repent and turn from their ways you go against our Lords words.

Paul spoke in human terms at times to be understood, people will always believe putting some one to death is acceptable because of the evil in our hearts. Paul even spoke how he himself struggled with these thoughts.

My question would be and always will be to those who believe in capital punishment for those who are already held in prison.

Where is the love and forgiveness in that ?

also another question I would ask,

Do you want to be put to death for your sin, if not, why do you want another ?

 

[Apostol2013]

God has chosen a new Generation of leadership to teach the rightful ways of The Holy Spirit wich is the kingdom in wich Our Lord Came to Be Witness of A Faithfull Witness at that of a Higher calling that does not perish but of an eternal reward given by promise and established upon the cross by His blood .The Testator of the New Covenant/testament

 

[just-me]

My question would be and always will be to those who believe in capital punishment for those who are already held in prison.

Where is the love and forgiveness in that ?

also another question I would ask,

Do you want to be put to death for your sin, if not, why do you want another ?

And my answer will always be the same as Paul's letter to Timothy chapter 1 verses 9 and 10. Was Paul instructing Timothy how to love or to hate with capital punishment defined in the law?

"Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;"

So what does the law say to do with these types of people. Is it any wonder why the crime rate continues to increase? How else should we put the evil from us?

 

[Scuba]

What are the benefits of the New Covenant?

Through Christ, the veil in the temple was torn in two from the top to the bottom. The veil, that once blocked our access to God because of sin, was now open to who so ever will. Jesus died for the sin of the whole world, which torn the veil in two from the top to the bottom. The fact that the veil was torn from the top to the bottom means that God did it, not man. Through Jesus Christ we can come into the very God's presence without the veil. We can know God and have a personal relationship with Him even beyond the veil and into the very presence of God.

In the New Covenant God will change our nature. In other words, He will conform us to the image of His Son. This is another way of saying, "I will write my Law in your heart and mind". In the New Covenant God will take that Law on stone, that is hard and cold, and will make it flesh by magnifying the principles that the Law teaches with the whole purpose being to love with a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith.

In the New Covenant sin has been dealt with. In Christ we have a position of acceptance in the eyes of God. The past is done and gone. In Christ we become dead to sin but that does not mean sin is dead. Sin can still divide and kill if you give it the life and power it needs to accomplish it's task. The Law guides us around sin and teaches us the intrinsic consequence of sin. Intrinsic means death is build into sin itself. When we sin we die and this death is not coming from God, but rather, from sin itself. The imposed punishment for sin has been dealt with in Christ but the intrinsic consequence of sin is still present with us in the world. The deceitfulness of sin can still harden the heart and a hard heart has ceased to allow God to lead, guide and save from the ever living presence of sin in this life.

The veil is torn. Our past has been wiped. We have the Spirit to lead and to guild us into being conformed into the image of God's Son. He has given us a taste of what the world to come will be like and of the goodness of His word. He has given us power over sin through His Spirit. The kingdom of God is being handed to us through the blood of Christ, what will you do with it?

Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

 

[kennethcadwell]

And my answer will always be the same as Paul's letter to Timothy chapter 1 verses 9 and 10. Was Paul instructing Timothy how to love or to hate with capital punishment defined in the law?

"Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;"

So what does the law say to do with these types of people. Is it any wonder why the crime rate continues to increase?

The law was placed for the lawless.

But what you must understand is if it contradicts His word then it is not to be followed.
If we are to follow the laws that contradict our Lord's, then when the antichrist comes to power you can follow Him and still be saved. We know from scripture that that is not correct, it says that if you get deceived and follow him you will be cast in the lake of fire to.

The law says put them to death......Lord Jesus says love them, forgive them, and minister to them to try and bring them to repentance.

The scriptures also compare hatred to be the same as murder.

So do you want to be put to death for hating some one or some thing ?

Once again where is love and forgiveness to them in putting them to death ?

If you show an unforgiving heart the scriptures make it clear that you are not following Jesus like you should, an unforgiving heart shows no true repentance.

 

[royalscot]

And my answer will always be the same as Paul's letter to Timothy chapter 1 verses 9 and 10. Was Paul instructing Timothy how to love or to hate with capital punishment defined in the law?

"Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;"

So what does the law say to do with these types of people. Is it any wonder why the crime rate continues to increase? How else should we put the evil from us?

The Leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees
5 When the disciples reached the other side, they had forgotten to bring any bread.6 Jesus said to them, "Watch and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees."7 And they began discussing it among themselves, saying, "We brought no bread."8 But Jesus, aware of this, said, "O you of little faith, why are you discussing among yourselves the fact that you have no bread?9 Do you not yet perceive? Do you not remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many baskets you gathered?10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many baskets you gathered?11 How is it that you fail to understand that I did not speak about bread? Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees."12 Then they understood that he did not tell them to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
matt 16

 

[royalscot]

What are the benefits of the New Covenant?

Through Christ, the veil in the temple was torn in two from the top to the bottom. The veil, that once blocked our access to God because of sin, was now open to who so ever will. Jesus died for the sin of the whole world, which torn the veil in two from the top to the bottom. The fact that the veil was torn from the top to the bottom means that God did it, not man. Through Jesus Christ we can come into the very God's presence without the veil. We can know God and have a personal relationship with Him even beyond the veil and into the very presence of God.

In the New Covenant God will change our nature. In other words, He will conform us to the image of His Son. This is another way of saying, "I will write my Law in your heart and mind". In the New Covenant God will take that Law on stone, that is hard and cold, and will make it flesh by magnifying the principles that the Law teaches with the whole purpose being to love with a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith.

In the New Covenant sin has been dealt with. In Christ we have a position of acceptance in the eyes of God. The past is done and gone. In Christ we become dead to sin but that does not mean sin is dead. Sin can still divide and kill if you give it the life and power it needs to accomplish it's task. The Law guides us around sin and teaches us the intrinsic consequence of sin. Intrinsic means death is build into sin itself. When we sin we die and this death is not coming from God, but rather, from sin itself. The imposed punishment for sin has been dealt with in Christ but the intrinsic consequence of sin is still present with us in the world. The deceitfulness of sin can still harden the heart and a hard heart has ceased to allow God to lead, guide and save from the ever living presence of sin in this life.

The veil is torn. Our past has been wiped. We have the Spirit to lead and to guild us into being conformed into the image of God's Son. He has given us a taste of what the world to come will be like and of the goodness of His word. He has given us power over sin through His Spirit. The kingdom of God is being handed to us through the blood of Christ, what will you do with it?

Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law.22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed.24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. gal 3

 

[kennethcadwell]

The Leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees
5 When the disciples reached the other side, they had forgotten to bring any bread.6 Jesus said to them, "Watch and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees."7 And they began discussing it among themselves, saying, "We brought no bread."8 But Jesus, aware of this, said, "O you of little faith, why are you discussing among yourselves the fact that you have no bread?9 Do you not yet perceive? Do you not remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many baskets you gathered?10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many baskets you gathered?11 How is it that you fail to understand that I did not speak about bread? Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees."12 Then they understood that he did not tell them to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
matt 16

Exactly, Jesus warned them to watch out for their teachings because the Pharisees and Sadducees made and taught the laws but also would pervert them and make laws contradictory to His word and way.

 

[just-me]

The law was placed for the lawless.

But what you must understand is if it contradicts His word then it is not to be followed.
If we are to follow the laws that contradict our Lord's, then when the antichrist comes to power you can follow Him and still be saved. We know from scripture that that is not correct, it says that if you get deceived and follow him you will be cast in the lake of fire to.

The law says put them to death......Lord Jesus says love them, forgive them, and minister to them to try and bring them to repentance.

The scriptures also compare hatred to be the same as murder.

So do you want to be put to death for hating some one or some thing ?

Once again where is love and forgiveness to them in putting them to death ?

If you show an unforgiving heart the scriptures make it clear that you are not following Jesus like you should, an unforgiving heart shows no true repentance.

I see you're also contradicting Paul's words to Timothy. I can also see that you have no idea how far the "law of liberty" really reaches. My God bless you with His wisdom as you continue to contribute to the "falling away."

Matthew 24:4-13
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying , I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled : for all these things must come to pass , but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended , and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise , and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound , the love of many shall wax cold .
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed , the son of perdition;

With this I end my conversation with you, not because I am upset, but rather sorry because you have determined not to conciser any more than what you already know. You have reached your plateau of understanding by adhering to a doctrine that says that only some of God's Word applies to the concept of faith and not all. My God bless you with increased wisdom and understanding. Remeber that we are living in a real world with real hurt and real pain, and all we really need is the "real thing."

 

[kennethcadwell]

I see you're also contradicting Paul's words to Timothy. I can also see that you have no idea how far the "law of liberty" really reaches. My God bless you with His wisdom as you continue to contribute to the "falling away."

Matthew 24:4-13
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying , I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled : for all these things must come to pass , but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended , and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise , and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound , the love of many shall wax cold .
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed , the son of perdition;

With this I end my conversation with you, not because I am upset, but rather sorry because you have determined not to conciser any more than what you already know. You have reached your plateau of understanding by adhering to a doctrine that says only some of God's Word applies to the concept of faith . My God bless you with increased wisdom and understanding.

Now you are trying to say I am condemned, and apart of those who are falling away.

I do not contradict nothing, but you take and use Paul's words as if they contradict our Lords. Because that is what I quote is the words from our Lord. Paul's words do not contradict, nor do they override our Lords. If you look at it that way then you are getting the wrong context.

The bible says not to let men's laws, traditions, and philosophies to come before His way.

Like I said the Lord Jesus says to love, forgive, and minister to them....not hate, kill, let them die in their sins.

Can a person be kept in prison for life with out being put to death to protect others ? YES

What would our Lord want more ;

To love and forgive them, and not put them to death ?

To not forgive, and put them to death ?

From the words of our Lord, to love and forgive them and not put them to death is what He wants.

 

[Scuba]

21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law.22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed.24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. gal 3

Did Adam need to obey God in order to be made righteous? No, he was already righteous. Did God bring death to Adam when he disobeyed God or did the disobedience bring death into Adam? The day Adam ate, he died. Death is intrinsic to sin.

We don't obey God to be made righteous, we obey God so we can live.

Sin kills whether you're a Jew or a Gentile.

Romans 2:7-10 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

You have to move away from viewing obedience to the Law to be made righteous is the only purpose of the Law. The Law is God's instruction in how to live life and live. The Law defines sin because sin kills, whether you're a Christian or not. I agree that the Law teaches us what righteousness looks like but it also teaches us what sin looks like. Our righteousness is a position imputed to us through Christ but sin is still sin and it can still kill a righteous person (Adam).