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Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#61
Ignore Vernon, he's drifting around in a Twilight Zone created by the false prophets. There were two steps needed for atonement for sins,
a blood sacrifice which was to feed the victim of the sin, and then restitution for the victims loss. Jesus' sacrifice replaced the need for a blood sacrifice.
the Eucharist replaced the shared meal with sinner and victim, and God executes judgment replacing the need for restitution.
The judgment of Justification
creates a desire in the sinner to never treat someone that way again, and all is forgiven.
That is some serious contra-Biblical novelty.

<><===><>
Gary Sechler
With knowledge on loan from God
NOT. . .
 
Jun 13, 2014
78
27
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#62
The Judged will be sinners who did not have Christ or thought they had Him. Before we knew Christ our deeds retracted the Law. And anyone who lives with no savior(meaning no faith in Christ) have not the free gift of grace and are judged according to the law in which they fall under.

Galatians 3:12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”


If we are saved by grace, why are we judged by our deeds?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
#63
Pure baloney.


Pure baloney.

Not sure what you made that statement about, but if it was how VILE GOD sees all sinners before they were saved, that part would be absolute truth:

James 2:10 (NIV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#64
Salvation is centered around faith.
Salvation is the result of faith only.

Faith then becomes the motivator of our deeds. The judgment of God are blessing a cursings. Judgment, therefore is not to be seen only as condemnation.
James 2:18-26
18 Yea, a man may say , Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe , and tremble .
20 But wilt thou know , O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect ?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith , Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified , and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Yes, true faith produces good deeds.

No good deeds means the faith is not true, and one is not saved.
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
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#65
The Judged will be sinners who did not have Christ or thought they had Him. Before we knew Christ our deeds retracted the Law. And anyone who lives with no savior(meaning no faith in Christ) have not the free gift of grace and are judged according to the law in which they fall under.

Galatians 3:12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid : yea, we establish the law. ( Romans 3:31) Got to put it all together my friend.

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. (Romans 8:28)
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#66
Elin said:
Pure baloney.

Pure baloney.
Not sure what you made that statement about, but if it was how VILE GOD sees all sinners before they were saved, that part would be absolute truth:

James 2:10 (NIV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
I bolded the statements there to which I was referring.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
#67
The one thing I have not heard anybody say yet is how believers are judged by how well they obeyed Jesus words and therefore are given different rewards in heaven.

This goes with the wrong doers as well they are judged and their punishments are different for how bad they were.
Some that lived good lives, but deny the Lord our God will be burned up immediately, others like the antichrist and false prophet will burn for eternity.

But doesn't this say that ALL SINNERS ARE EQUALLY BAD!


James 2:10 (NIV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#68
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid :
yea, we establish the law. ( Romans 3:31) Got to put it all together my friend.
Yes, Paul established the law on its right basis--subordinate to the law of grace.

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. (Romans 8:28)
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#69
Some that lived good lives, but deny the Lord our God will be burned up immediately, others like the antichrist and false prophet will burn for eternity.
Is there then a rare, medium rare, and well done sinner? There is a mention of being beaten with more stripes, who knew to do right and did not (Luke 12), but this? Is there then a Cookbook, as well as the Book of Life?

Seriously, where is it indicated there's a different duration in the fire at, I presume, the Great White Throne? I've never seen this, but would be fascinated to see something in scripture about this.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#70
What Paul did was to teach the law apart from the customs, traditions, and our own moral values some like to throw in it.
It is about God's morals in our life on how we should live, not on our own morals.

We are told by our Lord what we are to do to be saved, then we are also told the signs that follow how one who is saved will walk. Works do not save, but faith and works go hand and hand.
One can not have true faith with out the other.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#71
Is there then a rare, medium rare, and well done sinner? There is a mention of being beaten with more stripes, who knew to do right and did not (Luke 12), but this? Is there then a Cookbook, as well as the Book of Life?

Seriously, where is it indicated there's a different duration in the fire at, I presume, the Great White Throne? I've never seen this, but would be fascinated to see something in scripture about this.
Malachi 4:3 says that some will be burnt up and we will walk on their ashes, now other scriptures say some get eternal punishment like Matthew 25 and it also says that the antichrist and false prophet will burn for eternity. Now if we walk on some of their ashes you can take that not all will face an eternity in the pit of hell.
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#72
Malachi 4:3 says that some will be burnt up and we will walk on their ashes, now other scriptures say some get eternal punishment like Matthew 25 and it also says that the antichrist and false prophet will burn for eternity. Now if we walk on some of their ashes you can take that not all will face an eternity in the pit of hell.
Don't see the ashes of Malachi a statement of what happens at the second resurrection, any indication anybody will be walking on their enemies' ashes at the Great White Throne: you'd sort of have to jump around in the lake of fire to do this, wouldn't you? Nor is it clear how this can be extrapolated as an eternal issue, rather this is about the day of the Lord, which is in the Bible the tribulation and return of the Lord to put down rebellion, isn't it? Isn't Malachi 4 about the second coming, in other words?
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#73
What is the difference between these two statements?

Salvation is centered around faith. (Faith is the nucleus. Without faith, there would be no orbiting electrons (salvation))

vs.

Salvation is the result of faith only. (Basic and to the point)
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
#74
This shallow teaching that all sinners are as bad as all the other sinners is wrong. This is a big twist of truth to make sinners few better and come to Jesus because, we are all the same, and in Jesus there is free forgiveness and you can stay in your sins. This also leads to the abandonment of capital punishment , because we are all equally bad. This is baloney! Some sinners are worse than others, some sins are worse than other sins . And some saints are holier than others. I think the rewards for Christians will be gives in the Millennial reign of Jesus on earth. the parables teach this . Some rule over 5 cities, some rule over 10 cities,. More later. Love to all, Hoffco
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#75
If we are saved by grace, why are we judged by our deeds?
All deeds are judged. But, for those from Christ's faith, though they might see all their works burnt up (those not done in conjunction with the Spirit), they themselves will be saved by the Fire (Holy Spirit) because of their faith in Christ. But, for those not from Christ's faith, they have nothing to deliver them from condemnation. This is why it says that faith and faith alone saves.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#76
Is there then a rare, medium rare, and well done sinner? There is a mention of being beaten with more stripes, who knew to do right and did not (Luke 12), but this? Is there then a Cookbook, as well as the Book of Life?

Seriously, where is it indicated there's a different duration in the fire at, I presume, the Great White Throne? I've never seen this, but would be fascinated to see something in scripture about this.
You're gonna' be one of the well-done ones. :p

I'm still laffin' at expired lease.
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
#77
To cfultz3, You need to read more on salvation basics. Sal. is based on GRACE and results in a holy saint with true faith and true works of righteousness. This faith only baloney is killing the churches, it is the reason churches are in apostasy. Love Hoffco
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#78
What is the difference between these two statements?

Salvation is centered around faith. (Faith is the nucleus. Without faith, there would be no orbiting electrons (salvation))

vs.

Salvation is the result of faith only. (Basic and to the point)
So you noticed that?
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
#79
Jesus is all, is on to a good doctrine, LOL even if it sounds funny. :cool:The fact that we are all judged by our works, deeds and those who have works of faith, holy in God's sight, they get to go to the Heaven and the new earth . So, the wicked will suffer according to their degree of wickedness. Romans 2 and many other verses teach this. Love Hoffco
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#80
To cfultz3, You need to read more on salvation basics. Sal. is based on GRACE and results in a holy saint with true faith and true works of righteousness. This faith only baloney is killing the churches, it is the reason churches are in apostasy. Love Hoffco
That is funny because you have liked many of my posts in the past where I speak a faith is to be active through love. Yet, it seems you have forgotten that in one simple post. Perhaps, you misunderstood me somewhere?

I would be the first to say that mere believe will not save and you have even complimented me for having said such. Have I now become your enemy?

Yes, I agree with you, and so many times before, that this faith alone is killing the Body of Christ, seeing that it says that a faith active through love is the only thing which matters to Christ.
 
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