Mormons / Latter Day Saints

daniel606 · Sep 11, 2014

Of course this is a true statement from John 14:6, but there is a whole lot deeper meaning to being an offspring of God or a child of God. You will never be like God unless you are his literal offspring. You are his literal offspring in the spirit before the world was created.

There is a second condition. You will not be like God unless you believe in Jesus Christ. He is the way and the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Even if you are a literal offspring, you still must go through Christ here on earth to be like God and be in his kingdom.

Satan is a literal offspring of God, but he rejected God and Jesus in our 1st estate and left it desolate. He does not even have an option to go further. Others who did follow God and Jesus in our pre-mortal life have chosen to reject him here in our 2nd estate and will forfiet their inheritance as a child of God, and will not be like God.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life.

just-me · Sep 11, 2014

daniel606 said:

It can be used by the adversary to do the opposite by temptation.

daniel606 said:

It goes back to understanding the Hebrew letters and number representations. Pictographs of sorts with the letters.

daniel606 said:

Click "this in blue" and then read the first line of that post. Click the "here" in the first line I wrote that is also blue in color and it will send you to the post referencing the breastplate.

daniel606 said:

As you know Satan uses God's word to distort the truth. I listed the power that can be used for his evil power. The opposite applies for the power of good. It's the power that the stones represent. They don't represent the attributes of satan's character. It's the power that Lucifer was originally created with to do the work of the Almighty God before the war in heaven, and ultimately lead to the fall. He still has those powers to distort the truth.

just-me · Sep 11, 2014

daniel606 said:

Philippians 2:1-5
1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded , having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind .
3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

It is is achievable in, and through Christ Jesus our Lord, and Savior. Salvation is the depth of fulfillment in every person. Continuing in it is the key to staying there.

just-me · Sep 11, 2014

daniel606 said:

That's what John is saying in chapter 1 verse 1, and that's what Jesus said also in the following.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
John 14:8-9
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Dan_473 · Sep 12, 2014

just-me said:

In essence yes, including the people who believe in Jesus Christ, Him being the firstborn from the dead.

Adam in Greek=76. Adam ad-am' of Hebrew origin (121); Adam, the first man; typically (of Jesus) man (as his representative):--Adam.
Adam in Hebrew=120 'adam aw-dawm' from 119; ruddy i.e. a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.):--X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person.
Adam in Hebrew=121 'Adam aw-dawm' the same as 120; Adam the name of the first man, also of a place in Palestine:--Adam.
119 'adam aw-dam' to show blood (in the face), i.e. flush or turn rosy:--be (dyed, made) red (ruddy).

verse 45 The first man Adam (meaning physical) was made a living soul; the last (final) Adam was made a quickening spirit.
In contest we then read what was first and what came after in verse 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

The first Adam is the natural man created, and the second Adam is the spiritual man created through Christ. We can also relate this truth that defines the temple of God made without hands through Jesus Christ.

We heard him say , I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.
Mark 14:58

Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 1 Corinthians 3:16

For as in Adam all die , even so in Christ shall all be made alive.1 Corinthians 15:22

well, to be honest, and also I want to be as gentle as possible, here... it sounds like a pretty forced interpretation to me... especially this part...
'the second Adam is the spiritual man created through Christ', because it says the second man is the Lord from heaven... so, definitely, we're not reading it the same way... as I said, your interpretation is possible...

just-me · Sep 12, 2014

Dan_473 said:

I am concentrating on the gospel of Jesus Christ concerning scripture that points directly to being born again. I endorsed that when mentioning the conversation between Nicodemus and Jesus. I do not use scriptures that define this truth for another means such as saying they are defining the existence of being in the spirit previous to being children of God through Christ Jesus.

Putting together what I said ("the second Adam is the spiritual man created through Christ") was in relation to this quoted verse.

"For as in Adam all die , even so in Christ shall all be made alive." 1 Corinthians 15:22

Then I will add this for you to know my mind in Christ Jesus, knowing He is the 2nd Adam, as you rightly said, we also know He is the first born "from the dead" among many so we are also kin with Him as the second Adam being "born again" in Him.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away ; behold , all things are become new.

New is obviously the second creature unlike the first.

Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow , he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

just-me · Sep 12, 2014

Dan_473
Please read 1 Corinthians 15:20-45 and you will see that it has nothing to do with existence previous to natural birth. It has everything to do with the resurrection of Christ in relation to the first and second Adam in verse 45. Paul uses those understandable things to explain the truth of the subject at hand. Paul is quite harsh to those at Corinth for not understanding the concept of what he is defining. Verse 36 "Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:" I am certainly not categorizing you as one of them. (smile)

Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Dan_473 · Sep 12, 2014

just-me said:

In acts 17, where Paul is talking on the areopagus...

Dan_473 · Sep 12, 2014

just-me said:

Beatcha to the punch LOL
Lets' take a good look at this and you will see that it clearly complements what I have been saying about being reborn in Christ Jesus.
Acts 17:19-28
19 And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying , May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest , is?
20 For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean .
21 (For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell , or to hear some new thing.)
22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said , Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
23 For as I passed by , and beheld your devotions , I found an altar with this inscription , TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship , him declare I unto you.
24 God that made the world and all things therein , seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, *dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed , and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him , though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live , and move , and have our being ; as certain also of your own poets have said , For we are also his offspring.

Poets are plural, Paul stating that these were performers that said they were made by the unknown God that they worshipped.
Poets=4163. poietes poy-ay-tace' from 4160; a performer; specially, a "poet"; --doer, poet.
Offspring means "kin."

*I mentioned these scriptures prevously that relate to verse 24

Mark 14:58 We heard him say , I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.

1 Corinthians 9:16 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive , because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry , Abba, Father.

Acts 17:24 relate perfectly with all the scriptures above. *dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

thanks for his nice response... i didn't see the answer to this question...when the poets and Paul on the areopagus say Children of God, are they talking about all humans? ... is it there and I didn't see it? please point it out to me...

just-me · Sep 12, 2014

Dan_473 said:

Yes they were talking about humans as themselves. I quote "Poets are plural, Paul stating that these were performers that said they were made by the unknown God that they worshiped." I thought that you could comprehend what I didn't explicitly say. Please forgive me. It appears to me all that the poets knew and personally believed was in relation to their natural state, knowing they just didn't evolve by some primordial ooze such as evolutionists do.

Paul is telling them there is more to life than what they knew at the present. He is preaching the good news of the gospel.
Sorry that I didn't define it to that point.

Dan_473 · Sep 12, 2014

just-me said:

KJV uses offspring, nasb uses children... Daniel and I had agreed that offspring meant children, and since the thread is discussing Mormonism, I used children... Paul says Every one of us... in him we live, and move, and have our being...God gives everyone life and breath, I think...

just-me · Sep 12, 2014

Dan_473 said:

We'll get coordinated with our posts someday LOL God bless you. See this post by clicking areopagus (smiling

)

You've already been there. read first line please.

just-me · Sep 12, 2014

Dan_473 said:

Either one will work in that context. Same difference.

just-me · Sep 12, 2014

Dan_473 said:

One must understand that Paul is NOT comparing his spiritual statues with their spiritual statues. He is comparing his natural statues for them to understand by comparison for the purpose of enlightening them with the gospel. He wouldn't be laying the groundwork to minister the gospel if they already knew it. In verse 22 he labels them as too superstitious in their understanding.

daniel606 · Sep 12, 2014

By 4 dimensional do you mean each word has up to 4 meanings?

just-me · Sep 12, 2014

daniel606 said:

No. The letters making up the words have meaning within the context. Every language has the first 2. The Hebrew language has all 4
I'm a beginner.

Each letter correlates with another adjacent letter to give meaning to the word
Each word correlates with another adjacent word to give meaning to the phrase or subject of description.
Each letter also expresses a symbolic concept.
Each letter represents a mathematical value.

daniel606 · Sep 12, 2014

We really do not know from the scriptures how angels came about except to say that God created them and they are in the form of a spirit being. The name of "angel" was given by the translators because these spirit beings came from the presence of God with a "message" for a mortal. So I am not stretching far and it is certainly within the realm of reasonable to think that "angels" could be sprit sons of God. Many scriptures put together add up to this reality.

All I am saying is there was a lot more going on in heaven when God was preparing, and creating the earth. Most Christians don't even think about it. When I talk about it to other Christians, they all think that before the world was created there was only 3 existing beings, God the Father and God the Son and God the Hoy Spirit. When I finish the discussion, they do not always agree with me about everything, but at least they acknowledge that there was a lot more going on in heaven before the earth was created than they had previously thought. We parted friends.

just-me · Sep 12, 2014

daniel606 said:

Let's look at the letter 'nun'. נ
It is the 14th letter of the alphabet
It represents Deliverance and salvation.
It represents a seed that can be planted even relating to sperm.
The numerical value is 50 representing Holy Spirit and Pentecost
The seed is also in relation to continue, heir, and Son
the 14th day of the first month of the Hebrew calendar is the day the lamb was killed for Passover. This is exactly the same day that Christ was crucified. Joshua was the son of Nun from the tribe of Ephraim

Numbers 13:8 and 16b Of the tribe of Ephraim, Oshea the son of Nun. And Moses called Oshea the son of Nun Jehoshua.

just-me · Sep 12, 2014

daniel606 said:

We really do not know from the scriptures how angels came about except to say that God created them and they are in the form of a spirit being. The name of "angel" was given by the translators because these spirit beings came from the presence of God with a "message" for a mortal. So I am not stretching far and it is certainly within the realm of reasonable to think that "angels" could be sprit sons of God. Many scriptures put together add up to this reality.

All I am saying is there was a lot more going on in heaven when God was preparing, and creating the earth. Most Christians don't even think about it. When I talk about it to other Christians, they all think that before the world was created there was only 3 existing beings, God the Father and God the Son and God the Hoy Spirit. When I finish the discussion, they do not always agree with me about everything, but at least they acknowledge that there was a lot more going on in heaven before the earth was created than they had previously thought. We parted friends.

I agree "So I am not stretching far and it is certainly within the realm of reasonable to think that "angels" could be sons of God." They are.

daniel606 · Sep 12, 2014

Whenever you use this scripture to support that Jesus and God the Father are consubstantial (in 1 being) you must either not know or you hope that I don't know John 17:11. In John 17:11, Jesus is praying to the Father to keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me (the apostles), that they may be one, as we are one.

Also you either don't know or hope I don't know John 17:20-22
20 Neither pray I for these (the apostles) alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one, as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the
world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

So according to the prayer Jesus offers to his Father in heaven found in John 17, Jesus and his Father cannot be 1 being, otherwise Jesus and his Father and the apostles and the billions of people that believe in Jesus because of the apostles would also be 1 massive being.

The only way John 10:30 reconciles with John 17 is that Jesus and the Father act as one. They are one in purpose, action, mind, and will, but not one physically, they are not one in the same being, they are separate and distinct individuals. Jesus is on earth praying to God the Father, who is in heaven(way separated physically).

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