troubled teen of a Christian family

[gma67]

I have never been in a chat room so, hopefully, this is reaching those of you who can help us.
I am the Grandmother of a family that does not know where to turn to get help for our 15 year old high school freshman granddaughter.
She makes poor choices, believes she is never wrong and that she should be allowed to do as she pleases. She does not at this point do drugs or alcohol, no boyfriend (sex) but things seem to be escalating in ways that we fear may lead her in that direction. Her grades have slipped at school but not enough to have kept her off the volleyball and basketball JV team.
We are a Christian family. We all (14 of us) attend church weekly. She says she does not want to go to youth any more and that she feels the bible is just a collection of stories that are well written. She enjoys making comments of that nature for the surprise element but perhaps believes it more than we are wanting to admit.
We have taken items from her (phone and I-pod). She is not affected by the doing of this even though she feels she is being deeply deprived without them.
Last week she did not come home from school, went to the home of a girl we did not know and made no contact until our daughter called police almost five hours later.
I have simplified this beginning introduction. Thank you for your help. Gma67

 

[lil-rush]

I don't know what to say, because simple grounding and spanking worked fine for me when I was being a brat. There could be a number of things causing her to act like this: new friends who are a bad influence, trying to fit into the supposed "high school life", trying to gain attention, trying to break away from her childish shell and create a path of "grown-up" life for her. etc etc. The best thing (imo, which isn't much since I have no children, but I do have awesome parents) would be to continue disciplining her, strictly disciplining her, and also try to find out what is causing her to act out. If it is fixable than fix it.

She could also just be going through a stage, and could very well calm down in a few months/years. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst I suppose.

 

[Stratocaster]

hey gma67,

In this case you could go in one of two basic directions. The first one is the one you're already going in by taking her stuff away, and that is forcing her to come back to church. Each person needs to make their own decision to follow Christ and be born again. Being born into a Christian family does not inherently make her a Christian. Forcing her to do church-related stuff is following the typical Christian stereotype and will only push her further away.

The second is let her make her own mistakes and find her own path. Constantly remind her how much Jesus loves her, but don't force it on her. I'm not saying let her do anything she wants; she should be expected to behave a certain way just as any 15 year old girl should. She should still be punished for being disrespectful or breaking the rules, but those rules should not require her to attend church.

Would you have let her go to the house of this girl if she had asked? If not, thats why she went without asking (or the fact that you took her phone away and its harder to call you!). Is there a legitimate reason for not wanting her to go see her friends before you know them? Hopefully she can handle herself. If she makes mistakes, that is part of life, you can't hold her hand for her whole life. You can force her to do certain things while she is 15, but one she moves out she will do things her own way, and you won't be there to help her when she makes mistakes. It's better that she makes them now rather than later when she is on her own and resents you because you didn't let her make them earlier.

When I was living with my folks, they let me get out into life and be a man. They gave me a certain amount of freedom (including being able to go over to houses of people they didn't know) and made it clear that if I abused it, it would go away. I screwed up a few times, but they didn't take that freedom away. They understood that every kid has to make mistakes, and they trusted that I would be responsible enough to call them if anything went wrong.

 

[lil-rush]

That reminds me strato, it is also a good idea to explain why she can't do things. "because I said so" can only go so far. Like the reason I could not go over a friend's house until my parents knew who they were and who their parents were. They explained the reasoning behind this was that they wanted to keep me safe and make sure I did not go to someone's house who had parents who would let us do not-so-smart stuff (like boys sleeping in the same room as girls at sleep overs, or supplying alcohol).

Kids will pretend like what their parents and authorative figures are saying is retarded and they don't understand why they do it, but they usually do if you explain it to them. I used to complain over the rules mom and dad instilled all the time, but deep down I knew they were right.

As to forcing your kid to go to church, I agree with Strato sort of. You shouldn't try to force her to believe in Jesus, but if the family goes to church she should have to go to for the simple reason that she needs to learn she can't get her way simply by being difficult.

 

[gma67]

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE RESPONSES! I am relieved to have you out there.
I should explain that she will go to church, just not with the youth group. She joins her parents in the sanctuary. Following the service (which is contemporary), the other teens from youth see her and greet her but she isn't interested in going. I think with what you have conveyed to me that our daughter and son-in-law may be making the right decision by not insisting she go there.
When she went to the girl's house without permission, she had no problem using the girl's phone to call her older brother to tell him she had a ride home (she was out of sight and he had no idea who was to be taking her home). She could have called her mother to say where she was going even though she didn't have her very own phone. She did state that she felt her mother wouldn't allow her to go from school because this is the first time this girl has ever been mentioned. She stated later that she even intended to spend the night and told the mother who picked her up that she had permission. When our daughter eventually found out where she was and went to get her, our Gdaughter told our daughter that "I just don't care, it was what I wanted to do."
Since finding this chat room, I have called my daughter and she is elated that you are out there. I will see her tomorrow and she is going to sign onto this site. She will mention gma67 and you will know it's her.
Praise the Lord for your presence. It is very consoling.

 

[lil-rush]

Maybe your granddaughter does not go to the youth group because she feels out of place there. Many youth groups can be very cliqueish.

 

[easygoing]

gma it sounds like your granddaughter is in that rebellious stage of life and is testing everyone around you to see how much she can get away with. I am by no means a counselor for such things but i will share some of my early life experiences in hope that maybe it can provide some insight.

As far as the school grades go i actually failed one grade and when news came of that, my father had pulled out the stops. I used to love listening to my radio at night before i went to bed, i collected all sorts of things like posters to model cars of all sorts. (a typical room for a kid basically with all sorts of things i enjoyed). As i said he pulled out all the stops, upon learning that i was going to have to repeat a grade he turned my room into a bed with 4 walls and that was it. everything was gone! TV was a thing of the past after that as well. study in my room, dinner, dishes and trash, then back to my room. Once i started bringing home good grades certain priveleges were brought back but could be taken away just as quickly. I will tell you this method worked for me. Plus the humiliation of returning to school and seeing all your old buddies moving on and you being the left behind was enough incentive to do better.

As far as going to peoples houses after school without permission i honestly don't know. Short of picking her up and dropping her off personally she will find and expose any loophole she can..believe me. I don't like to say this but when i was a teen i would leave and go to a friends house during school hours. Why? because i could and who was gonna stop me? That was my thinking at the time. I am not saying that your granddaughter is like that, but with the "i am going to do what i want" attitude it is a possibility. Might wanna keep a schedule of her after school sports practices as well just to keep tabs. I am not writing these things to worry you but just giving a few examples of what my being a very, very crafty and rebellious teen mind was thinking. Also you guys might want to inform her that as long as she asks that you will consider letting her go and hang out for a while and not just say no everytime.

If you don't aswer this i will understand but was there some sort of punishment layed out for the friends house incident where your daughter called the police?

Has anyone talked to her one on one in a comfortable environment, for both parties, about any problems that she could maybe shed some light on or just talk about? If any problems or misunderstandings are brought out into the open they can always be worked out. but both parties, children as well as parents have to be honest and up front if anything is going to come from it. It worked for me. I thank god for that.

Gma i am going to say a prayer for your family tonight and that may god grant you the answers that you need. i am sure you have but there is one thing for sure, a person can never have enough prayer.

 

[gma67]

Hello, I am gma's daughter (Sue) and I am so pleased Mom found this site. We need help with Sara. First, in answer to your question, easygoing, the police told me if I received a call from Sara after they contacted her friend's phone, they would know if they didn't hear from me that Sara had let me know where she was. Surprisingly, Sara wasn't at all ruffled by the call from the police and told me when I picked her up that all I wanted to do was get her busted. Her attitude was that I had spoiled her plan to spend the night even though she was aware I had no idea where she was or who she was with. (I should add here that her father and I share in our frustration with our daughter. He finds himself shut out by her when he attempts to have discussions with her or even verbally discipline her).
Sara is our only girl. She was adopted from Romania the week of her third birthday. She has four brothers (18, 16, twins 12). She has total knowledge of her adoption. I believe my mother did not add that information because those who do not know us usually turn to the factor of adoption to explain Sara'a behavior. We feel her rude, inconsiderate, disrespectful manner is Sara just wanting her way in all things. She acts as though she is entitled and openly rebels to our parental guidance and discipline. Right now she is without her phone and I-pod and is becoming agitated. After behaving in an acceptable manner for one day she feels she deserves to have them returned. She is now 5' 6" and 135 lbs. so there is no sending her to her room if she doesn't want to go.
It is so difficult to condense our situation. I believe it will be best to keep receiving advise from this site and perhaps state any present happenings as they occur instead of a lengthy explanation of the past. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
Does anyone believe that drawing up a contract with her would help? I know she believes they are silly and that her father and I would probably be the ones to make the decision about whether she was really abiding by it so she feels it would be useless. Thanks for taking the time to help us.

 

[Bamrocks14]

You cant make someone go to church, Ive learned that the hard way. i was forced to go my whole life and after while it gets old, Being forced and making th decision to go is 2 different things...

 

[gma67]

Somehow I have managed to convey that Sara is made to go to church. It is the youth group she would rather not attend. She will go with her parents into the sanctuary for the service. She seems to feel that the kids who are in youth, however, are "into religion" and she says she is not. The youth director is a flamboyant, fun, dynamic, well liked by the other youth gentlman almost 50 who has asked Sara to return but she is just not interested. When church is out, the other kids always tell Sara how much they enjoyed their gathering but still she never goes.
Bamrocks 14, do you attend church today by choice?

 

[lifetime]

Okay, she doesn't drink, doesn't smoke, doesn't do drugs, doesn't sleep around with boys. She goes to church. What exactly is the problem? You talk about unacceptable behavior. What does this mean unacceptable behavior? She is almost an adult woman. Is she given the respect and freedom and trust that is appropriate for her age? She is not a small child anymore and is developing a beautiful mind of her own. She wants to make more of her own decisions. And like Stratocaster I think it was said, make her own mistakes. If you don't give her some freedom then like any human being she will rebel. She needs to find her own way and answers with your help but that doesn't mean she'll act and grow exactly how you want her to. Let her be her own person. Let her speak her mind. Give her the trust she deserves for being the good girl she is. Let her take responsibility for herself. Make the rules clear and explain them. Define them. Make them reasonable and they should be applicable to ALL in the household. For instance, in my house there is no yelling, neither by child or adult. She needs to understand. Just telling her that her behavior is unacceptable doesn't cut it. What is unacceptable about it specifically? And above all, love her and have faith in her and tell her you love her and have faith in her and mean it and show it in your actions because love and faith are the most powerful gifts of all that you can give her. Trust God and have faith that He will guide you in making the right choices and to do the right things and say the right things to help your daughter. Remember she is 15. She is still partly child but also partly adult and it's a time of turmoil in a young girl's growth. It is a phase and an important one. She is beautiful. Tell her that. Don't put her down and don't push her away because the places mentioned in my first sentence is where she'll run.

God bless.

 

[IChThUS]

I have suggested in another thread ( aimed at a teenager with problem parents) that in order to get them to listen to her, she should listen to them. I take the bold stepof saying here that you listen to Sara.

Speaking accross the wide pond, where aspects of culture are perhaps a little different, is difficult because understanding of the other culture is not complete. It is a particularly presumptiative of me as a single man with not children of my own (but a career full of 'other peoples babies') to say this, but another approach would be to make her freinds welcome in your own home, so that you could get to know them (and hopefully their parents). The less secracy there is the more honest can be the relationships and the decisions you are called to make

Meeting half way, with a teenager can actually meen meeting them 60% of the way, whilst still maintaining your authority. Setting the time to be in at night, but being prepared to make it an hour later on the odd occasion. Discussing where she is going in the evening, perhaps collecting her and taking her mates home on the way. Suggestions could run away with a whole page in the forum.

She goes along to church with you and must be taking in some of the teaching it offers. As a local preacher for 45 years I would be happy to have her in my congregation and rather depressed to see all the others of her age group leaving for some less adult actiity. To my mind, youth activities from 13 onwards should be kept to a midweek evening session. My own eperience was a couple of hours (on Monday evening) games, music and a bit of dancing. followed by a fish and chip supper from the local take away (McDonald was still on the farm) and then before the washing up of the coffeecups, 3/4 hour of devotion.

I have digressed, but just think about things and work it from there. As an administrator for a counselling service I would say, "Do not go there, She is by no means in need of it".

 

[gma67]

Merryheart, lifetime and IChThUS,
Thank you for your very intuitive responses today. We already feel you and the others have been valuable to us and are a resource we had never turned to before. We love our Sara deeply and try to understand her actions or at least give her a chance to tell us what she is thinking. She undermines or sabotages herself many times and from what we are hearing from your advice, we should let her do that and face the consequences. For example, she has always been an A, B student but now that she is in the middle of her freshman year, she decided her first period class was taught by a "stupid woman who has zeroed in on me to pick on and I am not going to do the homework." She didn't and received a D, barely passing. Her mother had two conferences with the teacher and the head of counseling at the school. At each meeting, Sara was obstinate, flippant in her remarks and resented the meeting calling it "dumb" because the class (Critical Thinking) was absolutely useless. We are understanding from you that it would be best to let her slip this way and not make a big deal about her choice. If so, then we just need to accept it.
Would it be a good or bad idea to show her this Christian Chat site and have her read these postings? Do you know of any written contracts available between parents and the child that would be appropriate for Sara or would you advise them to create one for their family situation? Of course, Sara would participate actively in its forming, too.
Thank you for your prayers and welcome advice.

 

[lifetime]

I think that if you invite her here you take the risk that she will feel betrayed that you turned to a bunch of complete strangers to talk about some very personal family issues particularly relating to her. She may wish and expect to keep it all a very private family matter. It can damage trust between parents and child when trust is what you need to build. Of course you know the child best and should use your best judgement with the Lord's guidance. Ask for the guidance, morning, noon and night. It will come.

 

[faith4life]

gma67 , I believe i chatted with your granddaughter on here before. Was her nick Jesuswannabe? from missouri? I remember chating with someone that said her name was Sara. You are welcome to email me if you would like to.

 

[gma67]

I don't believe it was our Sara. We are not from Missouri but I can imagine her wanting to do such a thing incognito. We are in Florida.
Sue and Joe, my daughter and son-in-law, said they don't believe they will have Sara read the threads just yet. Hopefully, when the time is right, Sara will want to do some communicating in such a positive way (Christian Chat).
Sara wants her phone and I-pod back. Her parents haven't decided when to do that. In the past, when one or both of them were returned, Sara would begin rationalizing her actions again. Now that basketball season is over, Sue plans to pick up Sara immediately after school. During the b-ball season, there was an hour before practice or a game began. Sara would go with some of the girls in a car to a local small shopping center and "hang." From what I am hearing from some of you, would it be best to allow her to do that a couple days a week, let Sara be with those friends and then have Sue pick her up 30-45 minutes after school is out? (Since it is Florida, they usually get an Icee and walk in the outdoor shopping center).
Thank you for your prayers. Praise the Lord!

 

[maximumrideaddict]

I think that, as long as Sara can be trusted, she should be aloud to be with her friends after school for a while. As for her electronics, give her a proposition. If her grades improve- and stay improved- she can have them back. If she doesn't complain about going to Church. Things like that.
I can sort of understand where she is coming from, since I am also a teen. In my opinion, things would just get worse if she were denied too much or wasn't shown she was trusted. She would probably resent her parents more, and also Christ, ultimately.
I personally haven't gone through- nor do I plan to go through- the whole "rebellious" stage. My siblings and some friends are going through it right now, though, so I know some of Sara is feeling. One of the most important things to do it to trust her. Let her know that you believe she will make wise decisions. Let her find out that she's on the right path on her own. Unless she starts doing drugs and things like that, give her her freedoms. And make sure any punishments are fair and constant.
I hope this helps somewhat!

 

[Bamrocks14]

Somehow I have managed to convey that Sara is made to go to church. It is the youth group she would rather not attend. She will go with her parents into the sanctuary for the service. She seems to feel that the kids who are in youth, however, are "into religion" and she says she is not. The youth director is a flamboyant, fun, dynamic, well liked by the other youth gentlman almost 50 who has asked Sara to return but she is just not interested. When church is out, the other kids always tell Sara how much they enjoyed their gathering but still she never goes.
Bamrocks 14, do you attend church today by choice?

No, Im still forced to go to church. I have nothing against church but when your made to go 3 times a week it gets OLD very Fast!

 

[IChThUS]

I must disagree (at the moment) with Merryheart's response. I am sure she would be an excelent support to Sara, but as Lifetime says may look upon it as betrayal.

The mistake of identifying her has been made. - I know her name, I know the names of her mum and dad, I know where she lives, I know how old she is. I know who she is! There is the possibility that one (or more) of her personal friends or even she herself is already a member here and they (she) is reading this already. I put myself into her shoes, (being a teenage girl from another continetnt is not easy, but) I would be very embarrased that everyone (the www. is everyone) knows my private affairs.

I now step back into my own. I am a miserable old cur, but teenagers today (certainly in the UK) have far too much (as a right!?) Ipods (what is an Ipod?) Mobile phones (what is the need of those anyway?) and other musthaves. They have them provided for them, I would suggest they have to save up and buy them out of their pocket money and also the maintenance of them thereafter. ( I remember when I wanted the modern stuff such as a fountain pen and the subsequent ink, it is what I had to do - as a result I appreciated them). But haveing been given them, I see no particular advantage in them being withdrawn.

I am sure that giving trust, in spite of the current advrsity, would be the best solution. She is rebelious (I was a bit. wern't you?) but so long as she is not crossing the line committing offences she is OK. We can mould the clay from which she is made to a certain extent, but she must decorate herself into the finished model. You have given her the patern in the person of Christ, let her CHOOSE to follow it.

 

[gma67]

Each of you has certainly contributed advice and, we know, prayer. It is helping more than you know. Today Sara stated as they left for church that she was going to go into the youth group. She enjoyed it and saw some of the kids she hadn't been with in a while. Leaving church she was speaking with a few people which she rarely does. It was an enjoyable day with Sara.