Hell

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J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#41
It is one thing to disagree, but to outright attack like this and cast judgement doesn't sound very Christ-like.
One must define what is Christ-like. Is sneaking around? Is false doctrine? Do you have an opinion on sneaky Seventh Day Adventist websites?

On that, I couldn't agree more. Who wants people deceived? So, let's start with truth:

By the way, just who is this remnantofgod.org? Does it walk like a duck, perchance?
 
May 2, 2014
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#42
No, it wasn't a real story, it was parable. It start like other parables, ' there was a certain rich man'. The parable is about the priesthood being taken away from the Jews. Notice who Jesus is speaking to, it's the Pharisees. I don't have time at the moment to go into detail bit will later when I get home.
 
Sep 26, 2014
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#43
Obviously you have bias established in your mind. I come sharing the truth, not a denomination. If I linked to a Baptist, Pentecostal or Methodist website, would you think differently if it was the Word of God? When I post, I aim to be purely transparent. Whatever it is that you believe, I can assure you it is only half of the story. Nevertheless, the subject is about the Bible, not a denomination. Our focus shouldn't be on the messenger, but the contents of the message.

If you have something you want to personally discuss with me, why not send me a message. Otherwise our back and forth posts will confuse the original topic of this thread. Thanks.

God Bless
 
S

sassylady

Guest
#44
Keep praying. God wants even less for your loved ones to go into hell than you do.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#45
I have read many of your posts, and it is my belief that you are correct in your understanding of Scripture. However, this statement isn't correct.

You say the Beast and False Prophet are both men. The reference to the Beast is from Revelation 13:1-10. Without going into an in-depth study on the Beast, I will atleast identify what a beast is in Scripture.

Daniel 7:2-3,17,23 "[SUP]2 [/SUP]Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another." "[SUP]17 [/SUP]These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth." "[SUP]23 [/SUP]Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces."

The Bible tells us that a beast in prophecy is a king and his kingdom. Most would identify this as a system, versus a single man by himself.

The reference to the False Prophet is from Revelation 19:19-20:

Revelation 19:19-20 "
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. [SUP]20 [/SUP]And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.[SUP]"[/SUP]

Several things to note here. In verse 19, John sees "the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies". In verse 20, he now says "the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet". The False Prophet is identified as the kings (plural) of the earth, and their armies. Secondly, what is the main characteristic of the False Prophet given in verse 20? "that wrought miracles before him [the beast], with which he deceived them". This same terminology is used in conjunction with the second beast mentioned in Revelation 13:11-17.

Revelation 13:14 "[SUP]14 [/SUP]and deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. "

Comparing Scripture with Scripture, we can easily see that the False Prophet is a system of kings and armies that uses miracles to draw the world to worship the Beast. The False Prophet is identified as the second beast in Revelation 13. Again, a beast in prophecy is a king and his kingdom.

Conclusion. The Beast and the False Prophet are 2 kingdoms working together to deceive the entire world into a system of false worship against the LORD.

You also stated that the Devil will be tormented forever. That is also incorrect. Speaking to Satan, the LORD said:

Ezekiel 28:14-19 "[SUP]14 [/SUP]Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. [SUP]16 [/SUP]By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. [SUP]19 [/SUP]All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee:
thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more."

Satan will be turned to ashes (destroyed) in the lake of fire. This is in harmony with the other Scriptures I posted that reveal the wicked being turned to ashes in hellfire. Satan and his followers have the same end.

God Bless
The term Beast most often refers to one of the four world ruling empires mentioned in Daniel and Revelation. There is an exception, the term Beast is also used to refer to the human agent who will be the physical leader of the Beast power in the end times...

Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

This man is used by the Devil to lead the final ten kings (Rev 17:12) as the human head of this Satanic power.

This is the guy I was referring to as being burned up in the Lake of Fire.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#46
I don't know what a discussion about hell has to do with an attack on a particular denomination. It is one thing to disagree, but to outright attack like this and cast judgement doesn't sound very Christ-like. Share with love.

God Bless
I am not an SDA and don't agree with all of their doctrines but to attack them like this is certainly beyond the scope of this thread and forum.

This seems to be a common mechanism, if you cannot refute a person's posts, attack and try to discredit them. I really disagree with most protestant teachings but if I cannot refute a teaching with scripture, then it must be truth whether I like it or not. At this point I must accept it.
 
Sep 26, 2014
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#47
The term Beast most often refers to one of the four world ruling empires mentioned in Daniel and Revelation. There is an exception, the term Beast is also used to refer to the human agent who will be the physical leader of the Beast power in the end times...

Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

This man is used by the Devil to lead the final ten kings (Rev 17:12) as the human head of this Satanic power.

This is the guy I was referring to as being burned up in the Lake of Fire.
I won't go into a full study here, because the topic is about Hellfire. Would you be interested in discussing this more via Private Message?

God Bless
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#48
No, it wasn't a real story, it was parable. It start like other parables, ' there was a certain rich man'. The parable is about the priesthood being taken away from the Jews. Notice who Jesus is speaking to, it's the Pharisees. I don't have time at the moment to go into detail bit will later when I get home.
Not only the Priesthood, but entry to the kingdom, this is where Rom 11 comes in.
 
M

MadParrotWoman

Guest
#49
Yes ColinCat, I do think I will be held responsible for not speaking out - though that isn't the overriding fear I have. My parents are good, loving people but sinful like everyone else...which leads me to my next question: How can Heaven be paradise when you know and can possibly see your loved ones suffering in eternal Hell? Does God erase our memories of those we knew on earth? I know no one can know the answers to my questions for sure, I'm just interested in your opinions.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#50
Yes ColinCat, I do think I will be held responsible for not speaking out - though that isn't the overriding fear I have. My parents are good, loving people but sinful like everyone else...which leads me to my next question: How can Heaven be paradise when you know and can possibly see your loved ones suffering in eternal Hell? Does God erase our memories of those we knew on earth? I know no one can know the answers to my questions for sure, I'm just interested in your opinions.
Because they are gone. They do not burn forever. There will be sadness for those who do not enter the Kingdom, but God wipes that and their memory away...

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
 
P

phil112

Guest
#51
Im sorry to say hell is real. I know because I was taken there once most likely because God wanted me to warn people about what lies ahead of them if they do not come to him.

I wont go into details because I dont want to worry you further but yes hell is real and its as bad as ppl say it and worse
So, you're now in disobedience to God? You'll excuse my skepticism at anything you have to say I'm sure.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#52
So, you're now in disobedience to God? You'll excuse my skepticism at anything you have to say I'm sure.
I gotta say I am skeptical. Considering that the Lake or Fire is not even burning right now, I am really skeptical.
 
Sep 14, 2014
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#53
Im sorry to say hell is real. I know because I was taken there once most likely because God wanted me to warn people about what lies ahead of them if they do not come to him.

I wont go into details because I dont want to worry you further but yes hell is real and its as bad as ppl say it and worse
How do you know it wasn't a dream of some kind? What qualifiers have you got in place to distinguish between dreams, hallucinations or God?
 
May 2, 2014
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#54
I won't go into a full study here, because the topic is about Hellfire. Would you be interested in discussing this more via Private Message?

God Bless
Guys, let me suggest that false prophet and the beast are both, they are humans indwelt by demonic spirits.
 
Sep 26, 2014
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#55
Guys, let me suggest that false prophet and the beast are both, they are humans indwelt by demonic spirits.
That would seem to be a logical suggestion, however, the Scriptures point to systems led by men versus single men themselves. Like I said, this is worth studying out. We can use Private Message anytime.

God Bless
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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#56
How do you know it wasn't a dream of some kind? What qualifiers have you got in place to distinguish between dreams, hallucinations or God?
First off a dream could not have done what it did to me, when I fell asleep that night I was in a pure white place and I saw someone go through a door and I knew I was to follow I knew i was to be shown something. the second i entered that door I was in hell instantly the heat and humidity made me sweat so much my shirt stuck to my skin and the thirst was terrible my lips and throat were bone parched to my left I saw the lake of fire and above it a group of ppl in a cage who at a random time would be dropped into the lake.


To my right I saw there was jesus sitting in a chair waiting for me, I quickly came to him and sat in his lap. He smiled at me and I looked in front of us there was a place that looked like ancient ruins where a person in hell would live and at a random time a demon would come and attack them. I saw a man there who looked as if he had accepted his fate as if he deserved it and I took pity upon him. I then looked to Jesus and wanted to ask for water as I was thirsty but I instead asked for bread and from under his chair he took bread as if by magic. I saw he looked hungry and as he tried to give it to me I said no Lord you shouldnt have to suffer and tried to give it back to him but he insisted on me taking it so I did. when I did the demon I spoke of came to attack this man and the demon looked exactly like the demon from alien vs predator, it saw me and came running towards me I became afraid and hid my head into Jesus arms and he held on so tightly it almost hurt.

The demon went away but suddenly I was taken by something into the cage with the ppl who would get dropped into the lake of fire, it began to fall but I trusted Jesus and called out his name. as soon as I did we were no longer in hell we were walking on a path together and I asked him if the me being taken into the cage was a test of my faith and he nodded yes, we then came to three men and I excitedly said hey look its Jesus! and they said yea right, he then began walking to them saying my brothers have you lost your faith? they then suddenly turned into this horrible demon and took me and Jesus became very angry and said let him go but the demon began to fly away with me to make me into a part of something called the unholy trinity whatever that is as I have never heard of this until then. as it flew away with me I still trusted God I said to myself God would not have created me to be consumed by a demon.


You can judge for yourself about my dream but when you get to meet Jesus himself and he saves you when you call out his name and he protects you from demons and from hell fire and gives you food when you ask how could this be from the enemy?
 
May 2, 2014
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#57
So....the story (not a parable, because Jesus used different words to tell this story than the other parables he taught) about the Rich man and Lazarus was...just for fun? There was a man in the flames and he was in torture and thirsty, this story was not told to represent something else, what could it represent? It was an actual account with real people to warn those who die without Christ.
The rich man is in Hades suffering in flames. Let’s look at the rich man, firstly, we know he is a Jew because he calls Abraham his father. Secondly we see that he was dressed if purple and fine linen. What is the significance of the purple and fine linen. Purple was the color of royalty and fine linen was what the priests wore. During Jesus’ time there was no king but rather the priests served as a sort of priest king. What was the chief sin of the Sadducees and the Pharisees? Was it not their rejection of Jesus? Look at the parable of the rich man and Lazarus who was Jesus speaking to? In the end of chapter 15 He tells the parable of the prodigal son, then He relates to His disciples the parable of the unfaithful steward. Who were the unfaithful stewards? They were the Sadducees and the Pharisees. Notice in the parable the stewardship is being taken away from the steward. After the parable Luke records this,
[SUP]14[/SUP] And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him. (Luk 16:14 KJV)
Jesus replied to them saying they justified themselves before men, then He says,
[SUP]16[/SUP] The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. (Luk 16:16 KJV)
He’s telling them that their reign is over, the Law and the prophets were until John. John has come the Law and the prophets are done. The priesthood is done.
Then He says anyone who puts away his wife and marries another commits adultery, the very thing He had accused them of earlier. So again, He calls them unfaithful. The book a Malachi deals with the adulterous priesthood and their demise.
So, so far we have Jesus giving two parables the prodigal son and the unfaithful steward which upon hearing the Pharisees derided Him. So Jesus turned His attention to them and calls them adulterers and said that the Law and the prophets were until John. That’s the end of the priesthood. Then He says to them there was a certain rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen who fared sumptuously. That’s them. Here they are presently rejecting Christ. So, Jesus tells them this parable, the details of which He draws from the OT. Lazarus was in Abraham’s bosom, what is that? It’s not a location. It means to be in a close relationship with Abraham. Abraham’s bosom is mentioned elsewhere in the Scriptures and it’s not where dead people are.
[SUP]5[/SUP] And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes: the LORD judge between me and thee. (Gen 16:5 KJV)
Sarai’s handmaid was in close relations with Abraham, that’s what it means to be in Abraham’s bosom. The rich man, however, wasn’t in Abraham’s bosom where he expected to be, he was in Hades, in the flame. What does this mean? This rich man, the Pharisees and Sadducees were rejecting Christ and God and because of that were suffering. Jesus is drawing on an OT passage that they would be familiar with since their rejection was prophesied.
[SUP]9[/SUP] For the LORD'S portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.
[SUP]10[/SUP] He found him in a desert land, and in the waste howling wilderness; he led him about, he instructed him, he kept him as the apple of his eye.
[SUP]11[/SUP] As an eagle stirreth up her nest, fluttereth over her young, spreadeth abroad her wings, taketh them, beareth them on her wings:
[SUP]12[/SUP] So the LORD alone did lead him, and there was no strange god with him.
[SUP]13[/SUP] He made him ride on the high places of the earth, that he might eat the increase of the fields; and he made him to suck honey out of the rock, and oil out of the flinty rock;
[SUP]14[/SUP] Butter of kine, and milk of sheep, with fat of lambs, and rams of the breed of Bashan, and goats, with the fat of kidneys of wheat; and thou didst drink the pure blood of the grape.
[SUP]15[/SUP] But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.
[SUP]16[/SUP] They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger.
[SUP]17[/SUP] They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.
[SUP]18[/SUP] Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.
[SUP]19[/SUP] And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.
[SUP]20[/SUP] And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.
[SUP]21[/SUP] They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.
[SUP]22[/SUP] For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.
[SUP]23[/SUP] I will heap mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them.
[SUP]24[/SUP] They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust.
[SUP]25[/SUP] The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs.
[SUP]26[/SUP] I said, I would scatter them into corners, I would make the remembrance of them to cease from among men:
[SUP]27[/SUP] Were it not that I feared the wrath of the enemy, lest their adversaries should behave themselves strangely, and lest they should say, Our hand is high, and the LORD hath not done all this.
[SUP]28[/SUP] For they are a nation void of counsel, neither is there any understanding in them.
[SUP]29[/SUP] O that they were wise, that they understood this, that they would consider their latter end!
[SUP]30[/SUP] How should one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight, except their Rock had sold them, and the LORD had shut them up? (Deu 32:9-30 KJV)
Verse 22 is the fire in Hades, it is God’s anger. It’s not that there is literally fire burning in the grave, it’s God’s anger. The rich man represents the priesthood that is being rejected as the Law and the prophets are ending and God is bringing His justice on the priesthood for their abuse of His Law (read the book of Malachi) and their rejection of Christ. Notice the prophecy says that they were unmindful of the Rock that begot them. They turned away from their Rock, who was their Rock? Paul tells us who their Rock was.

KJV 1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
[SUP]2[/SUP] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
[SUP]3[/SUP] And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
[SUP]4[/SUP] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. (1Co 10:1-4 KJV)

Just as those Jews in the wilderness had rejected Christ so too were the Pharisees and Sadducees of Jesus day still rejecting Him.

Notice that the rich man is speaking from Hades. Jesus is alluding to Isaiah.
[SUP]NKJ [/SUP]Isaiah 28:1 Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, Whose glorious beauty is a fading flower Which is at the head of the verdant valleys, To those who are overcome with wine!
[SUP]2[/SUP] Behold, the Lord has a mighty and strong one, Like a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, Like a flood of mighty waters overflowing, Who will bring them down to the earth with His hand.
[SUP]3[/SUP] The crown of pride, the drunkards of Ephraim, Will be trampled underfoot;
[SUP]4[/SUP] And the glorious beauty is a fading flower Which is at the head of the verdant valley, Like the first fruit before the summer, Which an observer sees; He eats it up while it is still in his hand.
[SUP]5[/SUP] In that day the LORD of hosts will be For a crown of glory and a diadem of beauty To the remnant of His people,
[SUP]6[/SUP] For a spirit of justice to him who sits in judgment, And for strength to those who turn back the battle at the gate.
[SUP]7[/SUP] But they also have erred through wine, And through intoxicating drink are out of the way; The priest and the prophet have erred through intoxicating drink, They are swallowed up by wine, They are out of the way through intoxicating drink; They err in vision, they stumble in judgment.
[SUP]8[/SUP] For all tables are full of vomit and filth; No place is clean.
[SUP]9[/SUP] "Whom will he teach knowledge? And whom will he make to understand the message? Those just weaned from milk? Those just drawn from the breasts?
[SUP]10[/SUP] For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little."
[SUP]11[/SUP] For with stammering lips and another tongue He will speak to this people,
[SUP]12[/SUP] To whom He said, "This is the rest with which You may cause the weary to rest," And, "This is the refreshing"; Yet they would not hear.
[SUP]13[/SUP] But the word of the LORD was to them, "Precept upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little," That they might go and fall backward, and be broken And snared and caught.
[SUP]14[/SUP] Therefore hear the word of the LORD, you scornful men, Who rule this people who are in Jerusalem,
[SUP]15[/SUP] Because you have said, "We have made a covenant with death, And with Sheol we are in agreement. When the overflowing scourge passes through, It will not come to us, For we have made lies our refuge, And under falsehood we have hidden ourselves."
[SUP]16[/SUP] Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: "Behold, I lay in Zion a stone for a foundation, A tried stone, a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation; Whoever believes will not act hastily.
[SUP]17[/SUP] Also I will make justice the measuring line, And righteousness the plummet; The hail will sweep away the refuge of lies, And the waters will overflow the hiding place.
[SUP]18[/SUP] Your covenant with death will be annulled, And your agreement with Sheol will not stand; When the overflowing scourge passes through, Then you will be trampled down by it.
[SUP]19[/SUP] As often as it goes out it will take you; For morning by morning it will pass over, And by day and by night; It will be a terror just to understand the report."
[SUP]20[/SUP] For the bed is too short to stretch out on, And the covering so narrow that one cannot wrap himself in it.
[SUP]21[/SUP] For the LORD will rise up as at Mount Perazim, He will be angry as in the Valley of Gibeon-- That He may do His work, His awesome work, And bring to pass His act, His unusual act.
[SUP]22[/SUP] Now therefore, do not be mockers, Lest your bonds be made strong; For I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts, A destruction determined even upon the whole earth.
[SUP]23[/SUP] Give ear and hear my voice, Listen and hear my speech.
[SUP]24[/SUP] Does the plowman keep plowing all day to sow? Does he keep turning his soil and breaking the clods?
[SUP]25[/SUP] When he has leveled its surface, Does he not sow the black cummin And scatter the cummin, Plant the wheat in rows, The barley in the appointed place, And the spelt in its place?
[SUP]26[/SUP] For He instructs him in right judgment, His God teaches him.
[SUP]27[/SUP] For the black cummin is not threshed with a threshing sledge, Nor is a cartwheel rolled over the cummin; But the black cummin is beaten out with a stick, And the cummin with a rod.
[SUP]28[/SUP] Bread flour must be ground; Therefore he does not thresh it forever, Break it with his cartwheel, Or crush it with his horsemen.
[SUP]29[/SUP] This also comes from the LORD of hosts, Who is wonderful in counsel and excellent in guidance.

This passage from Isaiah speaks of judgment against Israel at the time of Christ. Paul alludes to this passage when telling the Corinthians the reason for tongues and this passage from Isaiah is quoted in the New Testament and applied to Christ.

[SUP]16[/SUP] Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: "Behold, I lay in Zion a stone for a foundation, A tried stone, a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation; Whoever believes will not act hastily. God tells Israel that their covenant with death will not stand and neither will their agreement with Hades.




[SUP]NKJ [/SUP]Isaiah 29:1 "Woe to Ariel[SUP]1[/SUP], to Ariel, the city where David dwelt! Add year to year; Let feasts come around.
[SUP]2[/SUP] Yet I will distress Ariel; There shall be heaviness and sorrow, And it shall be to Me as Ariel.
[SUP]3[/SUP] I will encamp against you all around, I will lay siege against you with a mound, And I will raise siegeworks against you.
[SUP]4[/SUP] You shall be brought down, You shall speak out of the ground; Your speech shall be low, out of the dust; Your voice shall be like a medium's, out of the ground; And your speech shall whisper out of the dust.
[SUP]5[/SUP] "Moreover the multitude of your foes Shall be like fine dust, And the multitude of the terrible ones Like chaff that passes away; Yes, it shall be in an instant, suddenly.
[SUP]6[/SUP] You will be punished by the LORD of hosts With thunder and earthquake and great noise, With storm and tempest And the flame (Isa 28:1-6 NKJ)

In this passage Israel is said to be speaking out of the ground just as the rich man was. This passage is about judgment against Jerusalem. Who was in Jerusalem? Was it not the Priesthood?
 
May 2, 2014
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#58
I'd also like to point out that the Greek word "Aionios" which is translated "eternal" cannot mean eternal. "Aionios" is the adjective form of the word "aion" which in English is eon. The word eon means an age. Now, I know someone's going to post a dictionary definition of "aionios" with the word eternal as a definition, however, dictionaries are not inspired, the Scriptures are. A word can have more than one meaning, but, a word cannot have opposing meanings. In other words, the same word cannot mean, yes, and no. The same word cannot mean black and white. Therefore, the same word cannot mean. eternal and not eternal.

The word "aion" (base of aionios) is used in the Greek OT in place of the Hebrew word Olam. Olam is translated as forever in the English translation of the Hebrew OT, however, Olam doesn't mean forever, Olam is used to things that end. If it's used of things that end it cannot mean eternal or forever.

20 "This is the offering of Aaron and his sons, which they shall offer to the LORD, beginning on the day when he is anointed: one-tenth of an ephah of fine flour as a daily grain offering, half of it in the morning and half of it at night.
21 "It shall be made in a pan with oil. When it is mixed, you shall bring it in. The baked pieces of the grain offering you shall offer for a sweet aroma to the LORD.
22 "The priest from among his sons, who is anointed in his place, shall offer it. It is a statute forever to the LORD. It shall be wholly burned.
23 "For every grain offering for the priest shall be wholly burned. It shall not be eaten." (Lev 6:20-23 NKJ)

According to the English translation Aaron and his sons, the priesthood are to off this grain offering forever. However, according to Paul the Aaronic priesthood has ended. If the Aaronic priesthood has ended then the grain offering has ended too and thus, it is not forever, regardless of what the English translation says.

NKJ Numbers 19:1 Now the LORD spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying,
2 "This is the ordinance of the law which the LORD has commanded, saying:`Speak to the children of Israel, that they bring you a red heifer without blemish, in which there is no defect and on which a yoke has never come.
3 `You shall give it to Eleazar the priest, that he may take it outside the camp, and it shall be slaughtered before him;
4 `and Eleazar the priest shall take some of its blood with his finger, and sprinkle some of its blood seven times directly in front of the tabernacle of meeting.
5 `Then the heifer shall be burned in his sight: its hide, its flesh, its blood, and its offal shall be burned.
6 `And the priest shall take cedar wood and hyssop and scarlet, and cast them into the midst of the fire burning the heifer.
7 `Then the priest shall wash his clothes, he shall bathe in water, and afterward he shall come into the camp; the priest shall be unclean until evening.
8 `And the one who burns it shall wash his clothes in water, bathe in water, and shall be unclean until evening.
9 `Then a man who is clean shall gather up the ashes of the heifer, and store them outside the camp in a clean place; and they shall be kept for the congregation of the children of Israel for the water of purification1; it is for purifying from sin.
10 `And the one who gathers the ashes of the heifer shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until evening. It shall be a statute forever to the children of Israel and to the stranger who dwells among them.
(Num 19:1-10 NKJ)


According to the English translation, this ordinance of the Law is forever, yet both Jesus and Paul said the Law ended.

As we can see, Olam and Aion are both used to things that came to an end. Something that comes to an end is not eternal, thus, Olam and aion cannot mean eternal.
 
Sep 26, 2014
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#59
Excellent research into the Word Butch. Precept upon precept.

God Bless
 
Aug 25, 2013
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I have to admit I have a real problem with this.
Peter Hitchens was driven back into the Christian fold by his fear of Hell. Jerry DeWitt (a Christian minister of 25 years) was driven to atheism. You can find him on YouTube. Hell affects different people in different ways.

MadParrotWoman said:
I remember when I was first saved, a Jehovah Witness put one of their little leaflets through my door and there was a little bit about Hell in there, I know that what was written in that leaflet wasn't Biblical but it did make me feel better.
The more I've thought about it the more I think the Jehovah's Witnesses may be on to something.