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follow the discussion and make a sensible contribution....
Originally Posted by VCO
You did not listen to my testimony did you? I was REPENTED, was SAVED, AND BORN AGAIN THE SAME NIGHT. I REPENTED AFTER MOURNING AND WEEPING OVER MY UTTERLY SINFUL LIFESTYLE, after my third attempt at suicide. FOR FOUR MORE YEARS, I was still going to a Lutheran Church, that taught that infant Baptism was obedience to Water Baptism. When I changed to non-denominational Bible Teaching Church, about two years after I started there, we moved to California. I bought some of Gil Rugh's tapes before we moved. IN CALIFORNIA, I played the tape explaining Water Baptism for the first time and I heard Dr. Gil Rugh's sermon message and it convicted me to get Baptized by Immersion in Water. That was a Monday or Tuesday, and the following SUNDAY NIGHT I was Baptized in Water.
HOWEVER, I GUARANTEE you, THE HOLY SPIRIT WAS IN ME, and that I was BORN AGAIN and SAVED at least six years before, I ever got into the Waters of Baptism and was immersed.
THAT Whole Time, the Six Years, THE HOLY SPIRIT WAS IN ME, the Holy Spirit was teaching me Spiritual TRUTHS, feeding my hunger for the WORD, causing great deal of Spiritual Growth, HE was filling me with LOVE, JOY, PEACE, and Changing me from the inside out, molding me into the TOOL HE WANTED ME TO BE. My love for LORD grew, joy in obedience grew continuously, and I saw numerous answered prayers, miracles, BLESSINGS of many kinds, as my understanding of spiritual truths grew and grew. ALL OF THAT HAPPENED BEFORE I GOT WET IN THE WATERS OF BAPTISM. YES, that should have been my first step in my WALK OF OBEDIENCE, but it proves Spiritual Baptism is the the BAPTISM that SAVES, and NOT THE GETTING WET kind of Water Baptism, which pictures what has ALREADY HAPPENED SPIRITUALLY TO YOUR HUMAN SPIRIT. IF NOTHING happened prior to Water Baptism to your Human Spirit, then all you do is Enter the Water a Dry Sinner, and come out a Wet Sinner.
the man is saying .. IF NOTHING happened prior to Water Baptism to your Human Spirit, then all you do is Enter the Water a Dry Sinner, and come out a Wet Sinner.
and I am saying....the scripture says... Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
The man says he was saved six years prior to obeying the command to be water baptised...was it ignorance or disobedience? If it has no meaning why would a sermon convict him to do it...but it is clear he thinks it did nothing for him...so then why do it...?
You did not listen to my testimony did you? I was REPENTED, was SAVED, AND BORN AGAIN THE SAME NIGHT. I REPENTED AFTER MOURNING AND WEEPING OVER MY UTTERLY SINFUL LIFESTYLE, after my third attempt at suicide. FOR FOUR MORE YEARS, I was still going to a Lutheran Church, that taught that infant Baptism was obedience to Water Baptism. When I changed to non-denominational Bible Teaching Church, about two years after I started there, we moved to California. I bought some of Gil Rugh's tapes before we moved. IN CALIFORNIA, I played the tape explaining Water Baptism for the first time and I heard Dr. Gil Rugh's sermon message and it convicted me to get Baptized by Immersion in Water. That was a Monday or Tuesday, and the following SUNDAY NIGHT I was Baptized in Water.
HOWEVER, I GUARANTEE you, THE HOLY SPIRIT WAS IN ME, and that I was BORN AGAIN and SAVED at least six years before, I ever got into the Waters of Baptism and was immersed.
THAT Whole Time, the Six Years, THE HOLY SPIRIT WAS IN ME, the Holy Spirit was teaching me Spiritual TRUTHS, feeding my hunger for the WORD, causing great deal of Spiritual Growth, HE was filling me with LOVE, JOY, PEACE, and Changing me from the inside out, molding me into the TOOL HE WANTED ME TO BE. My love for LORD grew, joy in obedience grew continuously, and I saw numerous answered prayers, miracles, BLESSINGS of many kinds, as my understanding of spiritual truths grew and grew. ALL OF THAT HAPPENED BEFORE I GOT WET IN THE WATERS OF BAPTISM. YES, that should have been my first step in my WALK OF OBEDIENCE, but it proves Spiritual Baptism is the the BAPTISM that SAVES, and NOT THE GETTING WET kind of Water Baptism, which pictures what has ALREADY HAPPENED SPIRITUALLY TO YOUR HUMAN SPIRIT. IF NOTHING happened prior to Water Baptism to your Human Spirit, then all you do is Enter the Water a Dry Sinner, and come out a Wet Sinner.
and I am saying....the scripture says... Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
The man says he was saved six years prior to obeying the command to be water baptised...was it ignorance or disobedience? If it has no meaning why would a sermon convict him to do it...but it is clear he thinks it did nothing for him...so then why do it...?
C
I'm not sure if someone has already hit on this or not. There are to many posts to read and find out.
The reference to water baptism being a "symbol" comes from 1 Peter 3:21. If you look in the notes of your Bible you will see that Peter used an anti-type, "like manner." The anti-type has 2 definitions, the opposite of someone or something, or a type of symbol. The only thing scholars agree on in this verse is that Peter is using a symbol. Some scholars interpret support for baptismal regeneration and some support a symbol of the DBR of Christ that has nothing to do with our salvation.
It would be very difficult for either side to win the debate on this verse alone. I believe the debate can be settled by connecting Acts 2:38 to Acts ch. 10, in favor of water baptism being a symbol of the Death, Burial, and Resurrection of Christ.
The reference to water baptism being a "symbol" comes from 1 Peter 3:21. If you look in the notes of your Bible you will see that Peter used an anti-type, "like manner." The anti-type has 2 definitions, the opposite of someone or something, or a type of symbol. The only thing scholars agree on in this verse is that Peter is using a symbol. Some scholars interpret support for baptismal regeneration and some support a symbol of the DBR of Christ that has nothing to do with our salvation.
It would be very difficult for either side to win the debate on this verse alone. I believe the debate can be settled by connecting Acts 2:38 to Acts ch. 10, in favor of water baptism being a symbol of the Death, Burial, and Resurrection of Christ.
VCO, I have never read 1 Pet 3:21 as you suggest; but I intend to look into it as an interesting possibility. Thanks for acquainting me with that interpretation.
You raise the problematic "Lordship salvation." It is clear that works don't save, thus it cannot be that anyone is saved for making a vow to do good works or to be obedient, treating Christ as the boss. Salvation is by grace.
I note that you gave 4 caps to LORD when you explained Rom 10:9. I think the failure to realize that in context (Rom 10:13) the OT quote is of YHWH not Adonai -- personal name of God, not functional "lord." Christ must be trusted as the 2nd person of the Trinity, the God-man, YHWH. A proper definition is required of the object of faith (Jesus the Mexican car mechanic saves no one). The demand to respond to and acknowledge that Christ is Lord-boss-master, is a constant demand upon all men, saved or unsaved. Having Him defined as YHWH, which includes his being Lord is required. But making a resolution to respond to Him as Lord would be salvation by works.
Thus in presenting the gospel there is nothing wrong with urging men to trust Christ as Savior, giver of free gift of eternal life and also to submit to Him as Master. But one should be careful not to tell anyone that submitting to Him as Master brings salvation. One should not proclaim, "Submit to Christ as master, and you shall be saved." That is the heresy of Lordship salvation. Salvation is the free gift of grace, not of works.
I would be careful of quoting the NIV as a prooftext for anything as it is (in general) too free a translation for that. In Col 2:6 the NIV inserts "as" where it is absent in Greek. If someone can't handle Greek, I recommend double-checking the verse in the ASV (1901).
Ὡς οὖν παρελάβετε τὸν Χριστὸν Ἰησοῦν τὸν κύριον, ἐν αὐτῷ περιπατεῖτε, 7 ἐρριζωμένοι καὶ ἐποικοδομούμενοι ἐν αὐτῷ καὶ βεβαιούμενοι τῇ πίστει[ by faith]
καθὼς ἐδιδάχθητε, περισσεύοντες ἐν εὐχαριστίᾳ.
As therefore you received Christ Jesus the Lord. No "as" between Jesus and the Lord. How did the Christian receive Him? By grace through faith. This passage indicates that the Christian life is lived by the same principle as salvation initially -- by faith.
Gal 2:20-21
I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ liveth in me: and that life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith which is in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me. 21 I do not make void the grace of God: for if righteousness is through the law, then Christ died for nought.
The basic principle both of salvation and of the Christian life is not drill-sergeant-master obedience. It is faith working through love, a walk of grace in fellowship with the Lord Jesus in which fruit is produced by the Spirit.
As important as it is to recognize that Christ is our sovereign Lord, it is more important to recognize and accept Him as our lover -- the love of Christ constrains me. Faith in Christ facilitates the comprehension of His love which results in our being filled to all the fullness of God (Eph 3). Christ dwells in the Christian heart (center of being instead of periphery) by faith. This leads to being rooted & grounded in love & thus to being filled to all the fullness of God.
You raise the problematic "Lordship salvation." It is clear that works don't save, thus it cannot be that anyone is saved for making a vow to do good works or to be obedient, treating Christ as the boss. Salvation is by grace.
I note that you gave 4 caps to LORD when you explained Rom 10:9. I think the failure to realize that in context (Rom 10:13) the OT quote is of YHWH not Adonai -- personal name of God, not functional "lord." Christ must be trusted as the 2nd person of the Trinity, the God-man, YHWH. A proper definition is required of the object of faith (Jesus the Mexican car mechanic saves no one). The demand to respond to and acknowledge that Christ is Lord-boss-master, is a constant demand upon all men, saved or unsaved. Having Him defined as YHWH, which includes his being Lord is required. But making a resolution to respond to Him as Lord would be salvation by works.
Thus in presenting the gospel there is nothing wrong with urging men to trust Christ as Savior, giver of free gift of eternal life and also to submit to Him as Master. But one should be careful not to tell anyone that submitting to Him as Master brings salvation. One should not proclaim, "Submit to Christ as master, and you shall be saved." That is the heresy of Lordship salvation. Salvation is the free gift of grace, not of works.
I would be careful of quoting the NIV as a prooftext for anything as it is (in general) too free a translation for that. In Col 2:6 the NIV inserts "as" where it is absent in Greek. If someone can't handle Greek, I recommend double-checking the verse in the ASV (1901).
Ὡς οὖν παρελάβετε τὸν Χριστὸν Ἰησοῦν τὸν κύριον, ἐν αὐτῷ περιπατεῖτε, 7 ἐρριζωμένοι καὶ ἐποικοδομούμενοι ἐν αὐτῷ καὶ βεβαιούμενοι τῇ πίστει[ by faith]
καθὼς ἐδιδάχθητε, περισσεύοντες ἐν εὐχαριστίᾳ.
As therefore you received Christ Jesus the Lord. No "as" between Jesus and the Lord. How did the Christian receive Him? By grace through faith. This passage indicates that the Christian life is lived by the same principle as salvation initially -- by faith.
Gal 2:20-21
I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ liveth in me: and that life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith which is in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me. 21 I do not make void the grace of God: for if righteousness is through the law, then Christ died for nought.
The basic principle both of salvation and of the Christian life is not drill-sergeant-master obedience. It is faith working through love, a walk of grace in fellowship with the Lord Jesus in which fruit is produced by the Spirit.
As important as it is to recognize that Christ is our sovereign Lord, it is more important to recognize and accept Him as our lover -- the love of Christ constrains me. Faith in Christ facilitates the comprehension of His love which results in our being filled to all the fullness of God (Eph 3). Christ dwells in the Christian heart (center of being instead of periphery) by faith. This leads to being rooted & grounded in love & thus to being filled to all the fullness of God.
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Scholars generally disagree on everything, & the majority of what the world calls "scholars" are unbelievers spinning yarns, croqueting critical & imaginative doilies. Now if you refer to men who have the spiritual gift of teaching, their teaching should indeed receive respect. One unnecessary assumption, too often made, is that when baptizo is used, it means water-baptism. Acts 1:5 said that they would be Spirit-baptized not many days hence, obviously fulfilled on Pentecost. The context of Acts 2:38 is spirit baptism.
But the main observation which settles the issue is that so many, many times salvation & justification are offered for nothing more than belief/having faith. Thus the odd ball "baptizo" passages must be understood that way.
Moreover, it is interesting that the heretics who insist that the human work of water-baptism is essential to salvation, do not translated the term baptize or baptism in their arguments. And they seem afraid to say:
All the Lutherans, Episcopalians, Methodists, & Presbyterians who believe in the Son of God, nevertheless go to Hell for not being immersed (only sprinkled) -- even if the heretics separately claim that baptizo means immerse/dip.
But the main observation which settles the issue is that so many, many times salvation & justification are offered for nothing more than belief/having faith. Thus the odd ball "baptizo" passages must be understood that way.
Moreover, it is interesting that the heretics who insist that the human work of water-baptism is essential to salvation, do not translated the term baptize or baptism in their arguments. And they seem afraid to say:
All the Lutherans, Episcopalians, Methodists, & Presbyterians who believe in the Son of God, nevertheless go to Hell for not being immersed (only sprinkled) -- even if the heretics separately claim that baptizo means immerse/dip.
NewB, may the Lord open your eyes & soften the hardness you have to the truth.
Why? There must be millions of persons in the world who think that baptism is sprinkling, even sprinkling babies. I don't believe that most of these persons have willful antagonism to the fact that baptizo means immersion & does not apply to babies. And there must be a total of thousands of Presbyterians & Lutherans who think that sprinkling is baptism, even if it is not -- yet they believe in the Lord Jesus, trust in HIs substitutionary death on the cross for their sins, love & adore the Lord Jesus.
Your rhetorical question is absurd. "so then why do it?"
Salvation is not by works. Real Christians do not habitually think about obeying this or that command which the Lord has given to Christians so that they will go to Heaven; they obey because they love the Lord and appreciate that He has saved them out of His grace.
So you confuse the 2 different issues:
1) Sirs, what must I do to be saved? Believe! is the only thing.
2) Sirs, what must I do to obey the commands of the Lord?
Answer, trust & obey Him in all matters as a matter of loving the Savior.
Thus the man who is saved through faith & not by any works like water-dunking,
wants to be water baptized since the Lord instituted water-baptism.
No one is arguing that water-immersion has NO MEANING.
The issue is not whether Christians should do good works,
but what a man must do to be saved.
To be saved, a man must rest from His works and trust in the SAvior.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.
Why? There must be millions of persons in the world who think that baptism is sprinkling, even sprinkling babies. I don't believe that most of these persons have willful antagonism to the fact that baptizo means immersion & does not apply to babies. And there must be a total of thousands of Presbyterians & Lutherans who think that sprinkling is baptism, even if it is not -- yet they believe in the Lord Jesus, trust in HIs substitutionary death on the cross for their sins, love & adore the Lord Jesus.
Your rhetorical question is absurd. "so then why do it?"
Salvation is not by works. Real Christians do not habitually think about obeying this or that command which the Lord has given to Christians so that they will go to Heaven; they obey because they love the Lord and appreciate that He has saved them out of His grace.
So you confuse the 2 different issues:
1) Sirs, what must I do to be saved? Believe! is the only thing.
2) Sirs, what must I do to obey the commands of the Lord?
Answer, trust & obey Him in all matters as a matter of loving the Savior.
Thus the man who is saved through faith & not by any works like water-dunking,
wants to be water baptized since the Lord instituted water-baptism.
No one is arguing that water-immersion has NO MEANING.
The issue is not whether Christians should do good works,
but what a man must do to be saved.
To be saved, a man must rest from His works and trust in the SAvior.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.
Atwood ...the scripture says repent and be baptised unto the remission of sins....and you shall receive the gift of the HS.....how do babies repent???.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
all what you are speculating does not change what Peter is saying ....and how we receive God's promise....It is clear ...How to receive the promise......What is the promise ....and who the promise is for......It is all there in those two verses...Acts 2:38-39
What you or I believe cannot change the word.....but we can have opinions that differs from the word(doctrine of man) I have no desire to have an opinion that differs from the word of God....what you do is your responsibility....you have read the word...
[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
all what you are speculating does not change what Peter is saying ....and how we receive God's promise....It is clear ...How to receive the promise......What is the promise ....and who the promise is for......It is all there in those two verses...Acts 2:38-39
What you or I believe cannot change the word.....but we can have opinions that differs from the word(doctrine of man) I have no desire to have an opinion that differs from the word of God....what you do is your responsibility....you have read the word...
the anti-type, "like manner." in 1 Peter 3:21 is between the flood water and baptism...then he goes on to say that baptism saves you...then ...what baptism is not ....and then.... what baptism is.... and then... how baptism saves....
1 Peter 3:21Names of God Bible (NOG)
[SUP]
21 [/SUP]Baptism, which is like that water, now saves you. Baptism doesn’t save by removing dirt from the body. Rather, baptism is a request to God for a clear conscience. It saves you through Yeshua Christ, who came back from death to life.
1 Peter 3:21Names of God Bible (NOG)
[SUP]
21 [/SUP]Baptism, which is like that water, now saves you. Baptism doesn’t save by removing dirt from the body. Rather, baptism is a request to God for a clear conscience. It saves you through Yeshua Christ, who came back from death to life.
P
Newbirth, acts 2:38 says that to receive the "gift" of Holy Spirit
Would you also agree with this definition ?
A gift is something given to someone without the expectation of payment or doing something physically for the gift.
The gift is meant to be free.
And the Gift may be Accepted or Rejected..
"water baptism " is a Work Do you agree??? Newbirth
Can NOT Receive a "Gift" by Doing a Work for it
REPENTANCE IS WHAT FORGIVES OUR SINS
No Work involved... Comes from the HEART...
Jesus Christ Knows our HEART
You said about Acts 3:19 " I did not add it but you surly want to take it away...why?....
because you do not believe it belongs there....[/QUOTE]
This verse Plainly says that REPENTANCE takes away sins...
And :water baptism" is NOT mentioned...
Acts 3:19New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]19[/SUP]Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out,
that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,
Just like in Acts 2:38 Because of Our REPENTANCE; our sins are washed away
You can NOT ADD the word "baptize" to Acts 3:19
Why??? Because it is NOT there
IF you do.... Then you have the "doctrine of man"
You would be ADDING something "man"
can TRY to DO to Earn Salvation
Would you also agree with this definition ?
A gift is something given to someone without the expectation of payment or doing something physically for the gift.
The gift is meant to be free.
And the Gift may be Accepted or Rejected..
"water baptism " is a Work Do you agree??? Newbirth
Can NOT Receive a "Gift" by Doing a Work for it
REPENTANCE IS WHAT FORGIVES OUR SINS
No Work involved... Comes from the HEART...
Jesus Christ Knows our HEART
You said about Acts 3:19 " I did not add it but you surly want to take it away...why?....
because you do not believe it belongs there....[/QUOTE]
This verse Plainly says that REPENTANCE takes away sins...
And :water baptism" is NOT mentioned...
Acts 3:19New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]19[/SUP]Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out,
that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,
Just like in Acts 2:38 Because of Our REPENTANCE; our sins are washed away
You can NOT ADD the word "baptize" to Acts 3:19
Why??? Because it is NOT there
IF you do.... Then you have the "doctrine of man"
You would be ADDING something "man"
can TRY to DO to Earn Salvation
NO, reread my post #494, YOU failed to hear what I said, and your theology is still WRONG. I was forgiven the very NIGHT that I mourned over my sinfulness and confessed it to HIM begging HIM for forgiveness.
1 John 1:9 (NRSV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] If we confess our sins, He who is faithful and just will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
MOST OF HERE WILL ALL REPEAT it is not the Water Baptism that saves, it is when the Holy Spirit immerses us into the spiritual Body of Christ. And even though I sound like a broken record, that was the same night as my third attempt at suicide. HE SAVED ME AND FORGAVE ME THEN AND THERE.
EVERY EXAMPLE of anyone getting saved in the New Testament, they BELIEVED before they ever got baptized, THE HOLY SPIRIT AND SALVATION HAPPENED the moment they BELIEVED.
Acts 10:47-48 (HCSB)
[SUP]47 [/SUP] “Can anyone withhold water and prevent these people from being baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
[SUP]48 [/SUP] And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay for a few days.
You are the one who has confused the understanding of the Scriptures. SEE THERE ☝ THEY WERE SAVED AND RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT, BEFORE THEY EVEN BEGAN DISCUSSING CHRISTIAN WATER BAPTISM.
✞
DO YOU BELIEVE JESUS ASCENDED TO HEAVEN IN HIS PHYSICAL BODY THAT WAS RESURRECTED?
1 John 1:9 (NRSV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] If we confess our sins, He who is faithful and just will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
MOST OF HERE WILL ALL REPEAT it is not the Water Baptism that saves, it is when the Holy Spirit immerses us into the spiritual Body of Christ. And even though I sound like a broken record, that was the same night as my third attempt at suicide. HE SAVED ME AND FORGAVE ME THEN AND THERE.
EVERY EXAMPLE of anyone getting saved in the New Testament, they BELIEVED before they ever got baptized, THE HOLY SPIRIT AND SALVATION HAPPENED the moment they BELIEVED.
Acts 10:47-48 (HCSB)
[SUP]47 [/SUP] “Can anyone withhold water and prevent these people from being baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
[SUP]48 [/SUP] And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay for a few days.
You are the one who has confused the understanding of the Scriptures. SEE THERE ☝ THEY WERE SAVED AND RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT, BEFORE THEY EVEN BEGAN DISCUSSING CHRISTIAN WATER BAPTISM.
✞
DO YOU BELIEVE JESUS ASCENDED TO HEAVEN IN HIS PHYSICAL BODY THAT WAS RESURRECTED?
Of course I do, but definitely NOT WITH YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF IT.
As posthuman, several others, and I have already pointed out several times. THE HOLY SPIRIT IS A GIFT, but if you have to do something to receive it, IT CEASES TO BE A GIFT, AND WOULD ONLY BE WAGES FOR THE DEED OR DEEDS YOU DID. A GIFT YOU RECEIVE WITHOUT HAVING TO DO ANYTHING, OR IT IS NOT A GIFT.
Romans 4:4 (GW)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] When people work, their pay is not regarded as a gift but something they have earned.
Romans 4:16 (GW)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Therefore, the promise is based on faith so that it can be a gift. Consequently, the promise is guaranteed for every descendant, not only for those who are descendants by obeying Moses' Teachings but also for those who are descendants by believing as Abraham did. He is the father of all of us,
Romans 3:23-24 (ESV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
[SUP]24 [/SUP] and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
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✞
So do Denominational Bigots.
✞
Malachi 3:6 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "For I am the LORD, I do not change;
Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.
Romans 4:3-4 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For what does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Now to the one who works, pay is not considered as a gift, but as something owed.
Acts 2:38 (NKJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
SEE MY LAST POST.
So do Denominational Bigots.
✞
Malachi 3:6 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "For I am the LORD, I do not change;
Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.
Romans 4:3-4 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For what does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Now to the one who works, pay is not considered as a gift, but as something owed.
Acts 2:38 (NKJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
SEE MY LAST POST.
Sorry to say, I am not a GREEK scholar, so you are wasting your time posting it to me,
because it literally is "all greek to me".
HOWEVER, I understand English JUST FINE.
What you say about works righteousness would be applicable, EXCEPT,
I believe with 100% of my being that every word of this next verse
is totally pertinent and applicable.
Romans 5:5 (NKJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God
has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit
who was given to us.
That "love of God" is like the seed in the Parable of the Sower.
If it finds fertile soil in the heart, it will produce a mighty harvest.
Some of the many things that SPAWN out of the LOVE OF GOD are:
Faith FIRST = SALVATION (unearned, BY GRACE because that faith is NOT of ourselves)
Love for God and especially for GOD the Son
Lovingly submitting to Him as LORD, which means Master
Hunger for HIS WORD
Joy and Peace with GOD, beyond all understanding
A desire to OBEY HIM
A desire to confess each new sin we find in ourselves
A desire to pray frequently, even if it just thoughts
A desire to verbally or through thought, TALK TO HIM
A desire to SERVE HIM
A desire to Share HIM with others
A desire to go HOME to be with HIM in Heaven
etc., etc., etc.
ALL OF THEM SPAWN OUT OF THAT "LOVE OF GOD"
that the Holy Spirit poured into our Hearts.
NO, THERE IS NO WORKS RIGHTEOUSNESS IN A TRULY BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN.
You say we do a dis-service to tell someone to receive Jesus as LORD,
and I say you do them a dis-service to receive Him as Savior,
BECAUSE THE SCRIPTURES SAY LORD.
John 1:12-13 (NKJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
[SUP]13 [/SUP] who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Received HIM as what though?
Colossians 2:6 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] As you have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,
Romans 10:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess {Not just profess or acknowledge Him as savior} with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Salvation is a FREE GIFT by the GRACE of GOD, but if it is GENUINE, it will PRODUCE a DESIRE to CONFESS HIM AS LORD.
Colossians 2:6 (NIV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in him,
Romans 10:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
While the word "as" is not there, I certainly believe it is IMPLIED, by stating it is about CONFESSING Him.
Because in John 1:12 it stated "as many as received HIM", that to points to receiving HIM as SOMETHING, not just acknowledging HIM as being "the LORD". EVEN THE DEMONS DO THAT.
what you say does not change the word ....what you or posthuman believe does not change the word...what it does is make you a liar ...let God be true and every man a liar....you disagree with the word ...so you disagree with God...
Acts 2:38-39Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]“Repent,” Peter said to them, “and be baptized, each of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. [SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is for you and for your children, and for all who are far off,[SUP][a][/SUP] as many as the Lord our God will call.”
You are hungry someone offers you food . Your hands are dirty so they tell you wash your hands and you will receive the food...does the washing of your hands change the food from a free gift to you having to work for it?
Acts 2:38-39Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]“Repent,” Peter said to them, “and be baptized, each of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. [SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is for you and for your children, and for all who are far off,[SUP][a][/SUP] as many as the Lord our God will call.”
You are hungry someone offers you food . Your hands are dirty so they tell you wash your hands and you will receive the food...does the washing of your hands change the food from a free gift to you having to work for it?
t t t
Titus 2:13
Not at all, but it is entirely possible that it makes you deceived by the doctrines of demons.
1 Timothy 4:1 (ASV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] But the Spirit saith expressly, that in later times some shall fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons,
2 Timothy 3:12-14 (ESV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,
[SUP]13 [/SUP] while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it
1 Corinthians 2:12-16 (NIV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
t t t
Titus 2:13
Please answer the question:
DO YOU BELIEVE JESUS ASCENDED INTO HEAVEN IN HIS PHYSICAL, RESURRECTED BODY?
what in post 516 shows I am going from bad to worst....
your purpose is to disconnect repentance , baptism in the name of Jesus Christ, forgiveness of sins and receiving the gift of the HS...Do you think there was a mistake in scripture?...that you must fix? The reason you want it to be so is because you say you repented even while you were being disobedient to the word of GOD and it took you six years to realize the error of your way...You claim you were saved and spirit filled before being baptised..... so there is no way you will agree with the scripture now....you have to find a way to back your claim, even if it means distorting the word...
your purpose is to disconnect repentance , baptism in the name of Jesus Christ, forgiveness of sins and receiving the gift of the HS...Do you think there was a mistake in scripture?...that you must fix? The reason you want it to be so is because you say you repented even while you were being disobedient to the word of GOD and it took you six years to realize the error of your way...You claim you were saved and spirit filled before being baptised..... so there is no way you will agree with the scripture now....you have to find a way to back your claim, even if it means distorting the word...
No, but you certainly are making some SERIOUS mistakes in YOUR interpretation of the Scriptures.
AND you have sunk to the level of calling us liars. What it next? Casting Stones?
All we have done is shared the TRUTH with you every step of the way, inviting you to receive GOD the Son as your LORD and Master.
OH and by the way, that calling us liars, certainly was a SIN.
Matthew 5:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
And you called us liars, my oh, my; and you said you do not sin.
Isaiah 5:20-21 (ASV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!
We showed you Scriptures to valid what we believe and all you did was turn a blind eye to it.