What did the Jew receive first?

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crossnote

crossnote

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#601
Nov 24, 2012
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#601
mpaper345 said:
In the New Testament it says there is no difference between the Jew and the Gentile,everybody gets the same salvation and privilege.

Jesus said salvation is of the Jews,and Gentiles were included.

The truth is only Jews can belong to the kingdom of God and be saved.

That is why the Bible says when you are saved you are a Jew inward because only Jews can belong to the kingdom of God and no matter what skin color and race when you are saved you become a Jew inward and are a Jew and can belong to the kingdom of God.
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For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
(Rom 2:28-29)

Upon closer examination, Paul is comparing Jews in name only (without the faith of Abraham) and Jews who do have true faith...hence 'true Jews.
The believing Gentiles aren't a matter of Paul's point.
 
just-me

just-me

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RedTent said:
If God let no one know of Him until Abram, then how did Abel know to use blood for sacrifice? How did Noah know to build the arc? Many think Job lived before Noah and Job certainly knew of the Lord.
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Also Noah knew what kind of animals were clean and unclean according to the law. After the flood he made sacrifice. This record is long before before Abram or any person being of Hebrew let alone of Jewish heritage. So from Abel's offering on, there has been the shedding of blood by the patriarch's, understanding and obedient to the will of God.

Can we also agree that we, as Gentiles receive the same blessings (this post) today as the Jews did beforehand?
 
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RedTent

RedTent

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crossnote said:
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
(Rom 2:28-29)

Upon closer examination, Paul is comparing Jews in name only (without the faith of Abraham) and Jews who do have true faith...hence 'true Jews.
The believing Gentiles aren't a matter of Paul's point.
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This scripture was AFTER the Jews and gentiles were one under Christ. The point was that the ritual of cutting flesh had nothing to do with true circumcision. It was after the book of Romans explaining all of this to us, and also the difference and the sameness of Jew and gentile.
 
E

Elin

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just-me said:
Also Noah knew what kind of animals were clean and unclean according to the law.
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Yes, God gave the distinction to Adam for the sacrifices.

After the flood he made sacrifice. This record is long before before Abram or any person being of Hebrew let alone of Jewish heritage. So from Abel's offering on, there has been the shedding of blood by the patriarch's, understanding and obedient to the will of God.

Can we also agree that we, as Gentiles receive the same blessings (this post) today as the Jews did beforehand?
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We have received exceedingly more excellent blessings than the Jews did beforehand.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#605
Nov 24, 2012
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#605
crossnote said:
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
(Rom 2:28-29)

Upon closer examination, Paul is comparing Jews in name only (without the faith of Abraham) and Jews who do have true faith...hence 'true Jews.
The believing Gentiles aren't a matter of Paul's point.
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RedTent said:
This scripture was AFTER the Jews and gentiles were one under Christ. The point was that the ritual of cutting flesh had nothing to do with true circumcision. It was after the book of Romans explaining all of this to us, and also the difference and the sameness of Jew and gentile.
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Rather it would help you if you considered the context and setting of the passage.

Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
(Rom 2:17-29)

Even the setting is before the Cross which comes up in chapter 3. Besides Paul had already established the uncircumcision also had not kept the law.
 
just-us-2

just-us-2

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Mar 3, 2013
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psychomom said:
if you would be so kind, please elaborate on that?


can you describe this watered down Christianity that decreases/diminishes the blessings secured for us in Christ?

thanks!
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Sure. The question was posed on post #588 and I didn’t see a reply so I thought I would give my two-cents-worth.

The ultra-short answer is that any ‘Christianity’ that does not consider all of the Bible is watered down, consequently, made weaker.

Now, I will give you the short version of how I came to study the subject. I was raised in Wisconsin in Lutheran churches and by the time I got married in 1971 just before I turned 20, I had never heard that Jesus Christ was coming back again. That was remedied the next year when we saw the movie, “Thief in the Night” at a local church. Jumping over the next fourteen years of learning basic Christianity as a ‘babe in Christ’ we moved to the so-called “Bible Belt” which is a serious misnomer, by the way. Over the years I have learned a lot from the mostly Baptist and Pentecostal culture down here. Unfortunately, I don’t mean that I gained much Biblical or spiritual knowledge or wisdom. I did learn that the brand of “Christianity” that I was seeing all around me, locally, and after the internet, worldwide, was practically powerless. I wanted to know why such a powerful God who promises His followers will also have prayers answered and do great things according to John 14:12-14. All around me I saw professing Christians struggling with issues of unanswered prayers, unsaved loved ones, not enough money to pay their bills, etc. As I studied, everything came back to having the mind of Christ sooner or later. Since I promised the short version, I will summarize with this: we really do need every word that proceeds from the mouth of God in order to even come close to what is expected of those of us who claim to love Him and follow Him. As Jesus Himself said in Matthew 4:4 "It is written, 'MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.' " which He was quoting from Deuteronomy 8:3.

And finally, should anyone undertake the same study (and since you don’t appear to be a brand new Christian, I’m sure you realize that I mean real study to learn rather than the common garden-variety of study which today means to hunt through scripture to find individual verses that van be construed to back up a convenient belief one holds dear) and dare to speak what is revealed, expect a lot of unfriendly confrontations.
 
just-us-2

just-us-2

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#607
To expand a little bit on my short version posted above (post #606), post #588 is asking a legitimate question designed to cause a person to think, to reason out the comparison that we often hear that says Christians today are God’s chosen people as the Jews were in Old Testament times. It is comforting to think this way, but along with the blessings bestowed upon God’s people come the same consequences for wrongdoing, and those are the curses spoken of in the Bible – not so comfortable to think about.

Wrongdoing consists of more than murder, slander, gossip, lying, and the other common ‘naughty’ things we automatically think of. It is also – and much more common than the likes of murder or theft – ignoring parts of God’s own Word. This is where the various denominations I have been involved with and/or investigated come in. Everything of God is perfectly balanced which indicates that those who choose one thing they like to concentrate on (examples: tongues, snake handlers) or choose to leave out certain things (examples: Christ is coming again or entire Old Testament) are out of balance… not in sync with God Himself. At best, being in this condition would be unfulfilling and puzzling as to why one’s – okay, why my own - prayers went unanswered and “power with God” was totally missing from life, and at worst … we can only imagine.

To God a false balance is an abomination (Proverbs 11:1; Proverbs 20:23) and lest someone question the use of balances to teach the balance of all of God’s Word, meditate upon:
Proverbs 16:11 (KJV) [SUP]11 [/SUP]A just weight and balance are the LORD'S: all the weights of the bag are his work.
God’s Word is THE standard to make sure we are correctly balanced.

Romans 1:16 (KJV) says, “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.” So, since this verse states our position as Gentiles or if one is partial to the school of thought that teaches the comfort of considering modern day Christians as God’s chosen as the Jews were, either way, we are required to strive for the balance God requires. In Romans 2:9 (KJV) we are warned of the dangerous outcome of lack of balance when it says, “Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;” But ya gotta love the P.S. of the next verse (Romans 2:10 (KJV) “But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:”
 
E

Elin

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just-us-2 said:
To expand a little bit on my short version posted above (post #606), post #588 is asking a legitimate question designed to cause a person to think, to reason out the comparison that we often hear that says Christians today are God’s chosen people as the Jews were in Old Testament times. It is comforting to think this way, but along with the blessings bestowed upon God’s people come the same consequences for wrongdoing, and those are the curses spoken of in the Bible – not so comfortable to think about.
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There are no curses attached to the law of Christ for those in the new covenant in Christ.
 
just-me

just-me

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Elin said:
There are no curses attached to the law of Christ for those in the new covenant in Christ.
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According to the words of Jesus curses still apply.
Matthew 25:40-41
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

2 Peter 2:14-20
14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
18For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

When reading about the doctrine of Balaam it appears that he really didn't do anything wrong because he said everything that God told him to say. It was his actions after all was done that cursed him same as we can expect by doing the same things. Balaam didn't curse Israel.

14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.
16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Curses still apply for those who know the doctrine of Christ but want that true doctrine to say something different.
 
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C

chubbena

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#610
#610
Elin said:
Yes, the Jews received the word of God before the Gentiles,
but not before those from Adam to Abram who were not Jews.
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What does this post have to do with
chubbena said:
What the Jews received first are those frequently quoted as "As it is written".
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Did the NT writers quote from the Word of God from Adam to Abraham as well as the Word of God from Isaac on to Israel recorded by Moses and the prophets?
Does the NT teach "as it is written" something to be ignored by Christians?
 
C

chubbena

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#611
#611
crossnote said:
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
(Rom 2:28-29)

Upon closer examination, Paul is comparing Jews in name only (without the faith of Abraham) and Jews who do have true faith...hence 'true Jews.
The believing Gentiles aren't a matter of Paul's point.
Click to expand...
If only one reads on without prejudice:
What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? Much in every way! First of all, the Jews have been entrusted with the very words of God. What if some were unfaithful? Will their unfaithfulness nullify God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar.

Would the Jews who do have true faith get rid of the Word of God spoken through Moses and the prophets?
 
E

Elin

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#612
just-me said:
Elin said:
There are no curses attached to the law of Christ for those in the new covenant in Christ.
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According to the words of Jesus curses still apply.
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Curses apply only to those who are not truly in the new covenant through faith by grace.
 
E

Elin

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#613
chubbena said:
What does this post have to do with

Did the NT writers quote from the Word of God from Adam to Abraham as well as the Word of God from Isaac on to Israel recorded by Moses and the prophets?
Does the NT teach "as it is written" something to be ignored by Christians?
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Those from Adam to Abram had the word of God.

The Jews were not the first to have the word of God.
 
just-me

just-me

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Mar 4, 2013
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#614
chubbena said:
Did the NT writers quote from the Word of God from Adam to Abraham as well as the Word of God from Isaac on to Israel recorded by Moses and the prophets?
Does the NT teach "as it is written" something to be ignored by Christians?
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As Gentiles, can we expect these same cursings (in Spiritual relation) listed below as was promised to the Jews?
Deuteronomy 27:15 Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say , Amen.

By changing the word/name of God into something different than what He revealed to us of Himself in the Old Testament, you are making another God in your own image, and you are cursed.

Deuteronomy 27:16 Cursed be he that setteth light by his father or his mother. And all the people shall say , Amen.

If you are living a life that takes advantage of your parents to attain your own desires, you are cursed.

Deuteronomy 27:17-19
17 Cursed be he that removeth his neighbour's landmark. And all the people shall say , Amen.
18 Cursed be he that maketh the blind to wander out of the way. And all the people shall say , Amen.
19 Cursed be he that perverteth the judgment of the stranger, fatherless, and widow. And all the people shall say , Amen.

If you practice taking advantage of legalities for the purpose of extortion against others, or teach a doctrine that blinds people from the truth by perverting, and negating righteous judgment, you are not loving your neighbor as yourself. You are cursed.

Deuteronomy 27:20-23
20 Cursed be he that lieth with his father's wife; because he uncovereth his father's skirt. And all the people shall say , Amen.
21 Cursed be he that lieth with any manner of beast. And all the people shall say , Amen.
22 Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of his mother. And all the people shall say , Amen.
23 Cursed be he that lieth with his mother in law . And all the people shall say , Amen.

If you endorse sexual perversion, and promiscuity, you are cursed.

Deuteronomy 27:24-25
24 Cursed be he that smiteth his neighbour secretly. And all the people shall say , Amen.
25 Cursed be he that taketh reward to slay an innocent person . And all the people shall say , Amen.

If you practice armed robbery, premeditated murder, or destroy an innocent life for the purpose of patronizing your own desires, you are cursed.

Deuteronomy 27:26 Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say , Amen.

If you don't agree with these five words of the law, you are cursed.

Romans 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
 
E

Elin

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#615
just-me said:
As Gentiles, can we expect these same cursings (in Spiritual relation) listed below as was promised to the Jews?
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Since Christ there is only one curse, eternal damnation for unbelief.
 
just-me

just-me

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#616
Elin said:
Since Christ there is only one curse, eternal damnation for unbelief.[/SIZE][/COLOR]
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Hebrews 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Like the Jew first and also to the Gentile. Ya got that? :)

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
 
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just-us-2

just-us-2

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#617
Elin said:
There are no curses attached to the law of Christ for those in the new covenant in Christ.
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Yes, there are. God never changes and He repeatedly uses words like “for ever” in His Word. However, since you don’t believe all of God’s Word, which is obvious by the posts you make in the forum, there is no point in discussing this with you. Discussion should be for learning and when anyone believes that he/she is the only one who knows anything and everyone else is wrong, learning cannot take place and the discussion turns in a disgusting mess highly displeasing to God. Therefore, I won’t contend with you. Have a nice day.
 
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