Baptism symbol only ?

[posthuman]

Christ had power to forgive sins while on earth, therefore he could save him even though the new law had not come yet

Matt 9:6 "...the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins..."

amen! He began the work on earth three years before He finished it at the cross
but when He forgave, it was through faith by His Word, not by the law of Moses. i don't know what do we call that? a middle covenant? it is the very mercy of God!

 

[newbirth]

newbirth, This is the 3rd time that I have asked you these Questions below
Apparently you are struggling for Answers for the Questions that I have Asked you.
When you see a " ? " just answer the Question

the book of James is Written to people
that are ALREADY Christians

And of coarse works are Important to Believers

You are taking Scriptures out of context to Try to prove your point about works.

The Point that we are discussing is;

How and when is the Point at which is a Person Saved

So, does a person have to clean their Act Up
Before they can be Saved ???

So, does a person have to do "good works"
Before God says;
O' you are doing "good works"
You are Saved???

If water baptism is necessary, then that a person is damned to hell
even though he trusted in Christ,
even though he trusted in the sacrifice of Christ,
even though he by faith received Christ.

He would be damned to hell because
he did not participate in the human ritual of “water baptism”.

He would be damned to hell because he would not be justified by faith,

but by faith and the ritual of “water baptism”


If a person is at your home
and you share the "gospel' with them

They ask and Trust Christ to forgive them of their sins
And Believe with ALL their Heart
That HE Will do what HE says that He will do
And that HE is Who HE says that HE is
And ask Christ to be the Lord of their New Life with HIM

Then you tell them that their Salvation

is NOT COMPLETE UNTIL they are "water baptized"

for the forgiveness of their sins....

They follow you in their car and on the way to get "water baptized"

Someone runs a red light and t bones their car and everyone in the car dies Instantly

Question???

Even though they were on their way to get "water baptized"

BUT did Not make the human ritual.

Will that person be Saved ??? YES or NO ????

your question does not warrant an answer.....but I always respond......and when I quote scripture you ignore them....if baptism is not important why did Jesus do it and command his disciples to do the same?.....are the words of Christ without value and just for show ?
If baptism was a show as you claim why was Paul and Cornelius commanded to be baptised....since God had already poured out his Spirit upon them for all to see?.....why would Peter say repent and be baptised unto the remission of sins....and not repent and be baptised for the world to see?
I have no power to change the word so I cannot argue for those who disobey the word...If a man had purposed in his heart to obey the word and died on the way to fulfil the act....is our God not a merciful God? But if a man continue to teach others to disobey a direct command of God then the wrath of God abides upon him.

 

[Dogknox]

Dogknox,
you said " Paul was sent to preach!!!
Paul was NOT sent to Baptize!!
And
DO YOU SEE IT??? "Disciples" are Jesus' brothers!
Disciples are made by Baptism!
Jesus' BROTHERS are made by Baptism!

So, if I understand what you are Saying
Paul did Not want to participate in something
that is a Requirement to be a Disciple...

Again you left off part of the verse
1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ did not send me to baptize,
but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence,

What does this part of this verse mean to you""

lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

They are still more Questions that you have over looked in my post
numbers #605 and #622

Hello PACEMAKER; No you do NOT understand me.....
Paul was sent to PREACH and TEACH not to make God' children!
Not all in the Body Of Jesus do the same things.
6 We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your faith;7 if it is serving, then serve; if it is teaching, then teach;8 if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead, do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully.

Paul left others to Baptize he was sent to evangelize so he taught!

You asked...
What does this part of this verse mean to you""
lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

I reply: The CROSS represents the RESURRECTION it is hope for us of Eternal Life... IF>>>>
PACEMAKER If we are FIRST added to the RISEN Christ we will rise!

Jesus rose so ALL...
All Christians "IN Jesus' holy body" will also rise!!!!
Baptism >>> ADDS US <<< to the Body of Jesus!

PACEMAKER All people NOT in the Body of Jesus, are not a Child of God!
All people NOT in the Body of Jesus, are not going to rise to eternal life! Baptism "ADDS" believers to the RISEN body of Jesus!

PACEMAKER Wash your sins away.. Acts 22:16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’

PACEMAKER Baptism "ADDS" believers to the RISEN body of Jesus!
Acts 2:41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

Baptism "ADDS" believers to the RISEN body of Jesus!
All IN Jesus rise to life!
Baptism saves it washes away sins it ADDS us to the resurrected Body of Jesus!
PACEMAKER All >>> IN <<<< Jesus' body are God' children also!

 

[posthuman]

here are two pictures that represent events.
which one represents atonement for sin and the hope of our salvation?

1. 
2. 

which one of those two men saves your soul?
the one in the glasses & necktie?
or the one hanging on a tree?

 

[mailmandan]

here are two pictures that represent events.
which one represents atonement for sin and the hope of our salvation?

1. View attachment 90319
2. View attachment 90320

which one of those two men saves your soul?
the one in the glasses & necktie?
or the one hanging on a tree?

The ALL-sufficient Savior hanging on a tree.

 

[newbirth]

here are two pictures that represent events.
which one represents atonement for sin and the hope of our salvation?

1. View attachment 90319
2. View attachment 90320

which one of those two men saves your soul?
the one in the glasses & necktie?
or the one hanging on a tree?

which one did Christ do and which one did he say you must do?

 

[posthuman]

which one did Christ do and which one did he say you must do?

"Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me."

stop ducking the question.

 

[RedTent]

But there comes one after me that will baptize you in the holy Spirit and Fire, no water.

Kerry I have read many posts of your cancelling out many things in the name of the only way you recognize Christ, but to cancel out all that water symbolizes is carrying things a bit too far!

When Christ was on the cross there was water and blood.

 

[newbirth]

"Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me."

stop ducking the question.

I am not ducking the question....you position your question and furnish your answers in an attempt to nullify the effects of baptism which is commanded by our Lord...I am not one to nullify what Christ has done on the cross nor what he commanded us to do.....so I responded with a question..
......which one did Christ do and which one did he say you must do?
which I am confident you will answer

 

[posthuman]

I am not ducking the question....you position your question and furnish your answers in an attempt to nullify the effects of baptism which is commanded by our Lord...I am not one to nullify what Christ has done on the cross nor what he commanded us to do.....so I responded with a question..
......which one did Christ do and which one did he say you must do?
which I am confident you will answer

if you weren't ducking the question, you would have answered it. why do you so readily say "H[SUB]2[/SUB]O is my salvation" but hesitate to give glory to Jesus?

there is no effect to "nullify." there is no atonement without blood. there is no name under heaven whereby we are saved but Jesus Christ.

to your question, which i thought i'd already sufficiently answered, and is entirely irrelevant to the question of whether by H[SUB]2[/SUB]O we symbolize a thing or whether H[SUB]2[/SUB]O itself remits sin, i'll say this: Christ both lay down His life and commanded that we lay down ours. He also, for the sake of fulfilling every appearance of righteousness, was baptized in H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, and commanded His apostles to do the same, making disciples.

your question isn't an either/or, it's "yes and yes" -- and i am not ashamed to give an answer.
but my question -- there is only One who is able to save to the uttermost - are you ashamed to confess who He is? is it better that you talk from the side of your mouth than openly declare the Author of Salvation?

 

[Jumbalaya]

"Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me."

stop ducking the question.

newbirth isn't ducking the question, he's telling you the main point that people are missing. Of course Jesus' paid for our sins. He gave everyone access to become Christians when He died and was resurrected. But, everyone wasn't automatically saved when Jesus did this...
There is actually something we must do to come into contact with Jesus' blood so that we can be cleansed by it. And that very act is baptism. The water doesn't act as JUST "H2O"...it's acts as Jesus' blood which cleanses our sins.

 

[Atwood]

Yes, Water immersion is just a picture. I pictures Christ's death, burial, & resurrection & confessing a belief in it.

Water immersion cannot save, for over & over, many, many times, salvation is offered simply for faith/belief/trusting the Savior. In fact it is a grave sin to make water & idol & trust it instead of the Savior & to deny that He is the only & sufficient Savior, making Him a mere chance-giver. Water immersion cannot save, for it is a human work, & salvation is not of works (Eph 2).

Gal 3:

This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh? 4 Did ye suffer so many things in vain? if it be indeed in vain. 5 He therefore that supplieth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6Even as Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.
[FAITH ALONE; NO WORKS, NO WATER]
7 Know therefore that they that are of faith, the same are sons of Abraham. 8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all the nations be blessed. 9 So then they that are of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]


For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one who continues not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them. Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith; 12 and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them. Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one who hangs on a tree: that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Gal 3:22ff

But the scripture shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
But before faith came, we were kept in ward under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a tutor. For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Gal 5:5-6

For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails anything, nor uncircumcision; but faithworking through love.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Philip 3:8-9
Yea verily, and I count all things to be loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but refuse, that I may gain Christ, and be found in him, not having a righteousness of mine own, even that which is of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith:

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Col 2:6
As therefore ye received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, 7 rooted and builded up in him, and established in your faith, even as ye were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
2 Tim 3:15b
the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
Titus 1:4
to Titus, my true child after a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Saviour.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Heb 3:19ff
And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief. Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard. For we who have believed do enter into that rest;
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Heb 10:39
But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition; but of them that havefaith unto the saving of the soul.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Heb 11:7

By faith Noah, being warned of God concerning things not seen as yet, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; through which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
​ [NO WORKS, NO WATER]

1 Pet 1:3ff

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guardedthrough faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, ye have been put to grief in manifold trials, 7 that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold that perisheth though it is proved by fire, may be found unto praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ: 8 whom not having seen ye love; on whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice greatly with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
1 John 5:4-5

4 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that hath overcome the world, even our faith. 5 And who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? [And Revelation tells us that such believers are never blotted out!]
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]​

QED

 

[newbirth]

if you weren't ducking the question, you would have answered it. why do you so readily say "H[SUB]2[/SUB]O is my salvation" but hesitate to give glory to Jesus?

there is no effect to "nullify." there is no atonement without blood. there is no name under heaven whereby we are saved but Jesus Christ.

to your question, which i thought i'd already sufficiently answered, and is entirely irrelevant to the question of whether by H[SUB]2[/SUB]O we symbolize a thing or whether H[SUB]2[/SUB]O itself remits sin, i'll say this: Christ both lay down His life and commanded that we lay down ours. He also, for the sake of fulfilling every appearance of righteousness, was baptized in H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, and commanded His apostles to do the same, making disciples.

your question isn't an either/or, it's "yes and yes" -- and i am not ashamed to give an answer.
but my question -- there is only One who is able to save to the uttermost - are you ashamed to confess who He is? is it better that you talk from the side of your mouth than openly declare the Author of Salvation?

I am not ashamed to confess Christ.....are we not baptised into Christ....are we not baptised unto the remission of sins....

 

[Jumbalaya]

Gal 3:27 "For as many of you as were baptized INTO Christ have put on Christ."

Rom 6:3-4 "Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized INTO Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."

 

[Jumbalaya]

Atwood:

Faith is not just belief, for "even the demons believe" James 2:19. It is impossible to have faith without action. And b/c of this, all of the verses you showed, that mention faith, pertain to works as well.
"What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?" (James 2:14)
"Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead." (James 2:17)

Also, what is your take on this verse that specifically says that baptism saves?
"There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ," (1 Peter 3:21)

 

[PACEMAKER]

here are two pictures that represent events.
which one represents atonement for sin and the hope of our salvation?

1. View attachment 90319
2. View attachment 90320

which one of those two men saves your soul?
the one in the glasses & necktie?
or the one hanging on a tree?

I choose the "ONE " Hanging on a Tree......

A PICTURE is Worth a THOUSAND Words...

Just What Sins does "water baptism" wash away???

Romans 6:10
The death he died, he died to sin once for all;
but the life he lives, he lives to God.

How many Times did Jesus Die for ALL SIN???? ONCE

"water baptism" would be 2 times...

I Peter 3:18
For Christ also suffered once for sins,
he righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God.
He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.

(Ephesians 5:2)"... Christ ... loved you, and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma."


Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps,
who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in His mouth;
and while being reviled, He did not revile in return;
while suffering, He uttered no threats,
but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously;
and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross,
that we might die to sin and live to righteousness;
for by His wounds you were healed.

(1 Peter 2:21-25)
For you were continually straying like sheep,
but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls."


Only one Way
(Acts 4:12)
"Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me.' " (John 14:6)

"And there is salvation in no one else;
for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved."

(Acts 10:43)

"... everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.

If Jesus knows your Heart
Then why would one need to be "water baptized"
to show Jesus your Belief in Him

(Heb 10:17-18)

" 'And their sins and their lawless deeds
I will remember no more.'

Now where there is forgiveness of these things,

there is no longer any offering for sin."

This verse Plainly says that there is
NO Longer Any Offering for sin

"water baptism" would be an offering for sin..


'Only one Mediator
(1 Timothy 2:5-6)

"For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men,
the man Christ Jesus,
who gave Himself as a ransom for all..."


There is Power in the Blood

Check these four verses out...

1. Leviticus 17:11, 14 (cp. Deuteronomy 12:23) “For the life of the flesh
is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an
atonement for your souls:
for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul….
For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life
thereof …”

2. Hebrews 9:22 “Without the shedding of blood,
there no remission of sins.”


3. 1 John 1:7″… the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth
us from all sin.”



4. Revelation 1:5 “… Unto him that loved us, and washed us
from our sins in his own blood.”



Is the heated Baptismal water "holy" ?????

Just where do the Sins go after the water is drained out????

There is NO POWER in the Water...

Choices === water or the Cross

 

[PACEMAKER]

if you weren't ducking the question, you would have answered it. why do you so readily say "H[SUB]2[/SUB]O is my salvation" but hesitate to give glory to Jesus?

there is no effect to "nullify." there is no atonement without blood. there is no name under heaven whereby we are saved but Jesus Christ.

to your question, which i thought i'd already sufficiently answered, and is entirely irrelevant to the question of whether by H[SUB]2[/SUB]O we symbolize a thing or whether H[SUB]2[/SUB]O itself remits sin, i'll say this: Christ both lay down His life and commanded that we lay down ours. He also, for the sake of fulfilling every appearance of righteousness, was baptized in H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, and commanded His apostles to do the same, making disciples.

your question isn't an either/or, it's "yes and yes" -- and i am not ashamed to give an answer.
but my question -- there is only One who is able to save to the uttermost - are you ashamed to confess who He is? is it better that you talk from the side of your mouth than openly declare the Author of Salvation?

posthuman,

I have asked newbirth and dogknox

to give me their Definition of the words "gift" and "grace"

They seem to ducking this Question also...

 

[RedTent]

here are two pictures that represent events.
which one represents atonement for sin and the hope of our salvation?

1. View attachment 90319
2. View attachment 90320

which one of those two men saves your soul?
the one in the glasses & necktie?
or the one hanging on a tree?

What we are talking about is not to take on the work of God in determining where and how God will apply His grace, this post is about how God tells us to handle our worship. You are trying to throw sand in the eyes of those looking to follow God. God says to be baptized, so shut up about all the other stuff pretending it relates to this command, just do what the Lord says to do.

 

[newbirth]

posthuman,

I have asked newbirth and dogknox

to give me their Definition of the words "gift" and "grace"

They seem to ducking this Question also...

does your question require an answer? I do not have a different definition for those words...so to ask for MY definition is silly .....
gift...a thing given willingly to someone without payment
Grace is the goodness of God

 

[newbirth]

I choose the "ONE " Hanging on a Tree......

A PICTURE is Worth a THOUSAND Words...

Just What Sins does "water baptism" wash away???

Romans 6:10
The death he died, he died to sin once for all;
but the life he lives, he lives to God.

How many Times did Jesus Die for ALL SIN???? ONCE

"water baptism" would be 2 times...

I Peter 3:18
For Christ also suffered once for sins,
he righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God.
He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.

(Ephesians 5:2)"... Christ ... loved you, and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma."


Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps,
who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in His mouth;
and while being reviled, He did not revile in return;
while suffering, He uttered no threats,
but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously;
and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross,
that we might die to sin and live to righteousness;
for by His wounds you were healed.

(1 Peter 2:21-25)
For you were continually straying like sheep,
but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls."


Only one Way
(Acts 4:12)
"Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me.' " (John 14:6)

"And there is salvation in no one else;
for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved."

(Acts 10:43)

"... everyonewho believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.

If Jesus knows your Heart
Then why would one need to be "water baptized"
to show Jesus your Belief in Him

(Heb 10:17-18)

" 'And their sins and their lawless deeds
I will remember no more.'

Now where there is forgiveness of these things,

there is no longer any offering for sin."

This verse Plainly says that there is
NO Longer Any Offering for sin

"water baptism" would be an offering for sin..


'Only one Mediator
(1 Timothy 2:5-6)

"For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men,
the man Christ Jesus,
who gave Himself as a ransom for all..."


There is Power in the Blood

Check these four verses out...

1. Leviticus 17:11, 14 (cp. Deuteronomy 12:23) “For the life of the flesh
is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an
atonement for your souls:
for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul….
For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life
thereof …”

2. Hebrews 9:22 “Without the shedding of blood,
there no remission of sins.”


3. 1 John 1:7″… the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth
us from all sin.”



4. Revelation 1:5 “… Unto him that loved us, and washed us
from our sins in his own blood.”



Is the heated Baptismal water "holy" ?????

Just where do the Sins go after the water is drained out????

There is NO POWER in the Water...

Choices === water or the Cross

this is why one should not respond to some comments....How can a man say he is for God and at the same time encourage the disobedience of the command of the same God?

if you believe...( accept or regard (something) as true)...then you do what you believe...( accept or regard as true) If you believe ( accept or regard as true) our Lord Jesus then you would accept his word as truth...
[h=1][/h] [SUP]16 [/SUP]He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
but you teach this....

If Jesus knows your Heart
Then why would one need to be "water baptized"
to show Jesus your Belief in Him

and this
Choices === water or the Cross
can this be of God?