You have a very distorted concept of salvation.
Actually it's you who has the very distorted concept of salvation.
It seems strange that you were a Roman Catholic, but apparently one who did not understand salvation as a Catholic either.
I did not understand salvation as a Catholic, but I do now as a Christian.
You have now jumped into an even bigger quagmire where individual man can interpret scripture to his liking and formulate a whole new brand of salvation that will fit his comfort zone. A nice philosophical concept but hardly scriptural.
Man is saved by grace through faith and not by works. The gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who
BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16).
That is scripture and is not some formulated philosophical concept. 2 Corinthians 4:3 - But if our
gospel be hid, it is
hid to them that are
lost: 4 In whom the
god of this world hath
blinded the minds of
them which BELIEVE NOT, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
In regards to interpreting scripture: 1 Corinthians 2:11 - For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now
we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. 13 These things we also speak,
not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the
natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
I hear the term "positional" a lot among some Protestants. You seem to have this positional understanding. That one believes and it is immediately a genuine, mature faith that has guaranteed you eternal life without any of the commitments and obligations necessary to receive it.
Do you believe that we are righteous "in of ourselves" or positionally in Christ? Romans 4:5 - But to him who
does not work but
believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his
faith is accounted for righteousness, just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God
imputes righteousness apart from works: Do you reject
IMPUTED righteousness for imparted righteousness, as Roman Catholics do? 2 Corinthians 5:21 - For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might
become the righteousness of God in Him. Philippians 3:9 - and be found
in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but
that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith. That is the position of BELIEVERS IN CHRIST.
Adam did not possess it when he was created. Why would you think that God changed the reason for your existence as a human being. He corrected the fall, so that all men could have the same choice as Adam freely cooperating, synergistically with God to attain eternal life. Why do you think Christ became our model and example of living in this world?
Why do you think that Christ lived a sinless perfect life, died for our sins, was burial and rose again from the dead? It was to provide for us eternal life. You confuse what we are saved BY - grace through FAITH; with what we are saved FOR - good works.
Faith in Christ, believing that he saved us from death and sin and made union with Him possible again is just the means that God uses to differentiate from unbelief.
Faith in Christ doesn't simply make union with Him and salvation possible, it makes it actual.
It is the denial of self, taking up a servanthood, taking up our cross to follow Him, to be conformed to His image is what salvation has always been about. It is the living out of our faith that determines if faith is valid. We are called to transform this world. He called us to be co-reconcilers with Him.
This is what we are saved FOR and not by. We could never be sufficient enough servants or do enough good works to earn our salvation. That's why salvation is by grace through faith and not works.
We will give an account of our works. Why? Because if one has no works or stopped working, then it shows that he also lost faith.
It shows me he never had genuine faith but a temporary shallow belief that has no root.
It is why it is called being saved through faith.
We have been saved through faith (Ephesians 2:8). We are not still in a process of becoming saved through faith, but believers are in a process of ongoing Sanctification (which unbelievers often mix up with Justification) by which we are being saved from the power of sin. Believers have been saved from the penalty of sin.
Faith alone is meaningless, the works is the content of one's faith. Work justifies our faith which is what James states.
Faith IN CHRIST alone for salvation is not meaningless because He alone is the all sufficient means of our salvation and the Object of our faith in receiving salvation. Faith that claims to be genuine yet remains alone (barren of works) is meaningless because this is not genuine faith but an empty profession of faith, a dead faith. Works show that our faith is genuine and that is the sense in which we are justified by works. Not saved by works, but shown to be righteous.
Very simply, no faith, no salvation.
I agree. Like I've said many times before. Faith is the root and works are the fruit of salvation. No fruit demonstrates no root.
Kinda contradictory statement. Trusting that Christ alone will save you is denying both God's intended purpose in creating man, and the reason Christ saved the world from death and sin. What Christ did, He did alone and man has nothing to do with what Christ accomplished. However His purpose in doing so, was to be able to be united with man is a loving, obedient, synergistic relationship, now and in eternity.
No contradiction. John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may
know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. This loving, obedient relationship is what we are saved FOR and not by. We don't even begin this loving, obedient relationship with Him until we are saved.
It is the now, how faithful we are that will determine our eternal abode.
So where do you draw the line in the sand and say that you were faithful "enough"? How much is enough? See your confusion? That's not salvation through faith in Christ but salvation BY WORKS! It's no wonder you have no security.
The following is not gravy, or window dressing. It is the content of one's salvation, the attaining of eternal life.
If you were standing at the gates of heaven right now and Jesus asked you why He should let you into heaven, what would be your exact answer? Your answer will demonstrate exactly what you are trusting in for salvation.
And as you say, the works is evidence of ones faith. Thus if one stops, does not repent, the branch wlll be cut off and if one dies separated from God, there is no eternal life with Christ. Scripture gives no guarantees to man or for man that man can be, or will be always faithful.
Works are the demonstrative evidence of our faith, but not the means of salvation. 1 Corinthians 1:8 - He will
confirm/keep you strong to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. Philippians 1:6 - being confident of this very thing, that
He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ. Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the
gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having
believed, you were
sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14
who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Christ is all the security that I need. Your security rests in your performance so of course there is no guarantee for you.
You won't even reach perfection in eternity because we will always be creatures and cannot ever attain the absolute perfection of God.
I'm not talking about becoming exactly like God. We will reach entire sanctification in eternity and receive our glorified bodies. We will then be saved from the presence of sin.
Why do you worry about babies? Are you a baby that it would concern you? Your concentration should be on you, not even anyone else. You are not God, nor will you be the judge. One needs to make sure he/she is being faithful.
I'm not worried about babes in Christ. They are saved, but you keep saying that salvation is based on our performance so I asked you that question about babes in Christ, but you didn't bother to answer it. So where do you draw the line in the sand and say that you were faithful ENOUGH? Is that salvation through faith in Christ or salvation based on your performance/works?
That is your misconception again. They are obligations created for us, and we can either choose to do them or not dos them. The foundational obligation is to believe. That belief is supported by our commitment to work with God in this life.
No misconception at all. That is your implication. What obligations are there for us to accomplish in order to become saved after we have been saved through faith? Believers are committed to Christ and all believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful (Matthew 13:23). No man can lay any other foundation which is Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 3:11).
Again, a gross misconception and you constantly contradict your own view by quoting scripture. See above explanation.
No misconception and I didn't contradict anything. Which explanation? Your explanations equate to salvation based on man's performance/works and not faith in Christ. Your faith is in works.
Yes, doing is works. No works is a dead, meaningless, worthless faith, a journey to hell. We are to be doers not just hearers.
True, yet we are still saved through faith and not by works.
You cannot believe or have faith without the works.
You cannot demonstrate that you believe/have faith without works.
You were created for good works. But only a believer, one who believes in the Creator, the Savior of the world, is permitted to enter into His Body, the hospital where the healing takes place. Without faith, one removes himself from the hospital and will not be healed.
Created FOR good works, not saved by good works. Without faith, one is not in the Body of Christ to begin with.
Nice proof text but has nothing to do with individual, pew believers. It is being specifically directed at the teachers of the Gospel. Paul is a worker in that Kingdom, He is a builder in that kingdom as all those who have that obligation and were consecrated to that purpose.
False. That is the usual response from works salvationists in order to get around the truth found there. Verse 13 says
each one's work and verse 14 says if
anyone's work and not simply teachers. We must ALL stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ (including pew believers and not simply Pastors and teachers. Matthew 16:27 - For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will
reward each according to his works.
By the way, the supreme prize, reward is the Crown of Life. (eternal life).
There are multiple crowns mentioned in scripture. So you are saying that eternal life/salvation is a "reward" and is "not a gift?" in contradiction to Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8. The Greek word for "reward" is misthós Strong's #3408 (a primitive word, so NAS dictionary) –
a reward (recompense) that appropriately compensates a particular decision (action).
reward, wages.
Apparently a primary word;
pay for service (literally or figuratively), good or bad -- hire, reward, wages. Now to him who works the
wages are
not counted as grace but as debt (Romans 4:4). 5 But to him who
does not work but
believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his
faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom
God imputes righteousness apart from works. So much for salvation by works or working for and earning salvation as a reward.
This whole concept of rewards is pure Protestantism and I suspect it is held by only those that hold to some form/nuance to predestination, OSAS, Free Grace etc.
Rewards "in addition to receiving eternal life" are Biblical, as we have seen in Matthew 16:27 and 1 Corinthians 3:13-15 yet this truth found in scripture on rewards does not accommodate your works based false gospel of receiving eternal life as a reward "based on your performance" (wages earned) instead of through faith in Christ, so you reject the truth. It sounds to me like you are deeply indoctrinated into the theology of your church and are unable to see anything beyond your indoctrination.
